It gets worse. 
Mormons believe that people can be converted to Mormonism posthumously (that’s the reason they have such an interest in genealogy). So you could be hanging out in Hell with Mark Twain and Oscar Wilde one fine day and bang find yourself up in heaven all of a sudden because one of your Mormon descendants converted you.
I hope you like making things out of egg cartons…
If Wildest Bill is into Biblical prophecy, who does the Bible see going to the Super Bowl this year? I’ve got $10 riding on the Arizona Cardinals (the triumph of hope over reason.)
Im not sure I would take such signs as clear evidence of the second coming. But sure I suspose of someone introduced himself as the antichrist with the special tattoo/chip, I’d probably rethink things.
Btw, Eschatology is the section of theological study concerning itself with death, resurrection, armegeddon and the aterlife. (sorry if I spelled any of those wrong it’s been 12yrs since seminary)
MEBuckner - That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time. Thank you.
Wildest Bill wrote:
I know you do not believe in God or any of these things so we won’t debate that.
sigh This is your first mistake. You’re working under the idea of a monotheistic system. You assume that there is only ONE god, therefore we are either believers or atheists. I don’t doubt the existence of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god, I’m just not one of his followers.
But what if all that stuff started happening. And the anti christ wanted you to take his mark (probably a chip put under the skin) before you buy or sell anything (if you do not have the mark you would probably starve). Knowing that the Bible says your fate(Hell being your final destination) is sealed if you take that mark. Would you take the mark knowing you would go to Hell or would you come to Christ then knowing the Bible is true and God is real?
Another mistake. You assume The End Times or Revelations will happen as you interpret that book of the NT. Having read it, I find the text to be very metaphorical and its interpretation difficult at best. It’s probably couched in terms that would be best understood by a person living in the 1st century CE rather than a person of the later 20th century, CE. Now, if you can speak the same language as St. John the Divine and understand his culture, then I’d be willing to pay more attention. Do you have these skills?
In answer to your question, what would I do, I’d simply sit back and watch and wait. Since I’m not a Xian, I’m not bound by the rules and commandments of the Xian Bible. If the 2nd Coming were to happen as you say it would, I would be protected by MY Gods against the bloody mess YOUR God would be making.
Afterwards, I would enjoy the peace and quiet of the world since those yammering Xians would be gone and I could get on with my life in peace and surrounded by people who respected my choice in religious practice.
*Originally posted by goboy *
I am sorry I do not know what “eschatology” means know who some goofy god is that somebody made up when they were stoned to make money off of. And I don’t play scrabble(always thought that game was for nerdy people). But you go ahead and keep playing and learn new big words oh boy.
Maybe you need to go back and reread some of the Bible. I don’t thing there is going to be much of a library, cable TV and Miller Lite(least not cold) in Hell either. And I am not sure how muc of a fun intellectual conversation you are going to have with these such smart people that ended up in Hell in the first place but go for it. My job is just to tell you the story and let the Holy Spirit work you still have the free will and the so called intellect to reject it.
Yea but at least we are going to have air conditioning to keep us cool in our polyester. 
Haven’t you been following the thread? Giants v. Vikings. Duh.
Odin will work out that whole NFC/AFC thing to make it happen. You just watch!
Yes, I would accept a microchip implant if it were the only way to take part in the economy. I care not at all how that particular action might be interpreted through the symbolic ravings of John the Divine.
I would join the chorus of those asking you which Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, but I have no faith that your answers would add anything to the debate.
I would be happy for you to prove me wrong, of course.
To be honest, I have absolutly no idea what this rapture thing is, could you please enlighten me? Also, why is the concept of one world government so bad? I mean, isn’t the idea behind every religion to get everyone “on the same page” so to speak?
**
You do realize that you only believe what you do because of your cultural exposure. Your parents most likely exposed you to christian beliefs early on, and then reinforced those ideas with church and Sunday school and what not. If your parents were Buddhist you’d probably think that Christ and the second comming where as much BS as the rest of us “non-believers” do.
[HIJACK]
MEBuckner:
“Our” side isn’t going to lose! Sure, almost everyone dies, including Odin, Jormungand, Thor, Loki, Frey, Fenris, Freya et al. but Thor’s twin sons will survive, and take their dad’s hammer along to help them forge the new universe. Something of a Pyrrhic victory (not to mix myths), I grant you, but it’s still a solid win on points.
Of course, we won’t be around for that. Our slain and rotting bodies will litter the pavement of Heimdall, forgotten along with shattered Asgard.
But at least we’ll get to hang out (and maybe score!) with those sexy valkyries for a while before the big fight.
I once heard a fable about a guy who couldn’t be coerced or tempted by the devil, but who turned his back on God, and was doomed to walk the earth for eternity as an earthbound spirit. If the typically described God and the above-described Antichrist both turn out to be real, I’d probably tell both God and devil to fuck off (or each other) and see which one of them squishes me first, and if I survived, ignore them both.
(I happen to be religious, in a sort of “Western Unorthodox” non-institutionalizable kind of way, but it is thoroughly incompatible with the God-notions most common among Christian True Believers)
Remember: Just because you can create a universe or walk on water or fly through space with your Superman cape trailing behind you doesn’t make you worship-worthy.
“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)
“And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 10:7)
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28)
“For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places…And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory…Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled…Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.” (Matthew 24:7…30…34…42)
“Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless, I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:64)
Note also how many of Jesus’ parables are about people who are unprepared for something; e.g.:
“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding; and they would not come…And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into the outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 22:2-3…11-13)
and
“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so: lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he asnwered and said, Verily, I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” (Matthew 25:1-13)
And that’s just in the Gospel of Matthew.
Yeah, that’s the last act of “Die Gotterdammerung”, glorious music that concludes the Ring Cycle.
LMAO and getting coffee on my computer screen. Thanks.
Miller Lite??? Yeesh! I’ll take a Guinness draft, thanks.
I guess what I’m saying is that I have no interest in hanging out with boring, semi-literate people who know nothing of art, literature, music, or mythology.
So, Bill, in interpreting Scripture to formulate your eschatology, what hermeneutic approach do you favor? I certainly hope you’re engaging in proper exegesis, and not indulging in mere eisegesis.
P.S. “Some goofy god…that somebody made up when they were stoned to make money off of”? I think you’re confusing the religion of the Old Norse with Scientology.
*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi *
You would take the mark? Would you really? Seriously? You wouldn’t the thing there might be something to the raving of John? Hmmm? Come on this is your soul we are talking about can you afford to be wrong?
Just a couple I don’t want to get caught up in too many different debate at this time.
1.But for one what about the Jews returning to their land and the fact they are still around seems like that is a pretty good feet in spite of all the persecution they have had over the centuries.
I don’t want to prove you wrong I just want to see you get right. Eternity is a long time.
Bill sayeth:
Does ANYONE else see the irony of this?
Anyone?
Anyone?
HELLO lots of people think your bible and jesus are pretty goofy too!
As far as the antichrist and some kind of mark - listen sweetie, should the antichrist ever appear snicker I will apologize to all christians:provided of course that the anitchrist can PROVE he is the antichrist. And I agree with the poster that said his gods will protect him from your gods. I dont think something I dont beleive in can hurt me.
Throw an imaginary rock at me - see what happens.
Wildest Bill, you have got to stop reading those Hal Lindsey books!
Didn’t the tribulation already happen, at least a couple times. Nero was the beast (his name in numbers is 666) and most of the “prophecy” in Revelations can be shown to be fulfilled threw him.
Martin Luther was convinced that the Roman Catholic Pope was the anti-christ, and even illustrated Revelations when he translated it with the beast wearing a papal crown.
Some colonists were convinced that the Beast was the King of England, the mark of the beast had to do with the tax stamp act (since nothing could be bought or sold without a stamp on it).
Throughout the last two millenia there has been all kinds of theories and attributations of the beast and the end. I remember people thinking Ronald Reagan could be it because he “survived” a fatal wound and Ronald Wilson Reagan is 6 letters each.
Every generation has it’s own exegesis. Your mark of the beast, microchip approach is just the latest incarnation, and is fairly new (late 70’s I believe)
By the way, the “rapture” is when Jesus comes back for the third time (he’s already been here twice) to try getting the messiah thing right, snatching up all the believers and leaving non-believers here on earth. Of course, the three schools of this are pre, mid, and post-tribulation, but that is another story.
I always thought it was the DEUTSCHE MARK of the Beast. But then I really got to stop buying this dime store translations.
But seriously, anyone have Stroms handy? I never understood how people get “microchip” out of this word. A mark of evil that allows people to buy and sell? Yep, that’s what I keep telling people.
Of course, to be absolutely sure I’m right- that is, to avoid displeasing Jesus Christ, YHWH, Allah, Krishna, Buddha, my ancestors, Juno, and every other religion that claims to be the only path to salvation while offering no evidence better than any other religion does, I need to lock myself in a basement, never interact with others, accept all Gods as true while rejecting all other Gods as false, and make sure to keep kosher. As this is all about my soul, I can’t afford to be wrong, so I can’t afford to do anything.
Or I can realize that, unless someone specifically reveals themselves to me as the Anti-Christ, and specifically offers me this microchip as “here, use this to help me bring about the prophecies of Revelations”, then there’s no way to know that this microchip is any more dangerous or blasphemous than the thousands of items previously heralded as the sign of impending Apocalypse.
The problem is, you can’t prove “right”, because A) it’s a matter of personal faith, and unprovable to other people; and B) Christianity is no more provable than any other religion. Therefore, prove to me that every other path is false, and I’ll accept Christianity as the only option left. But as I don’t see Christianity as any more true than Buddhist, Islam, Judaism, Shinto, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, I can’t simply live my life in deference to the writings of a single religion. It’s either all of them or none of them.
Buckner you to are too funny. LOL and you do know the Bible thanks for the help.
I meant to type “feat” instead of “feet” well there is one less thing goboy can poke fun at me with.
And thanks goboy for at least giving me the “semi” part. Off to eat be back in a few.
Stuffnb, thanks for the definition. I asked goboy what it meant but he never told me maybe he didn’t know what it meant either.