==Hey guys, I know I’ve had some weird race OP’s on here before, and some of those engaged in immature language and heated rhetoric. I’m a new man now, so please don’t think about those past threads when dealing with this entirely more academic one. Thanks!==
I’ve noticed that “ridicule” - for lack of a better term, and I’d totally welcome a better term if there’s an accepted one - has an important place in black/African American social culture. From “cracking” on each other to “the dozens” and so on, it seems to me that it’s much more important and essential for blacks to playfully ridicule each other in their social interactions than it is for whites or other races. I’m basing this on everything from The Cosby Show to black co-workers, to blacks that I’ve observed interacting in public, in the workplace, and on the bus.
It seems to span most socioeconomic levels - just the other day (and the thing that got me thinking about this OP), I overheard two black businesswomen in suits “cracking on each other” on their lunch break like it was the Def Comedy Jam up in Panera, complete with “Oh no you didn’t!” and gales of laughter. Likewise, I hear poorer blacks doing the same on the bus every day, though it tends to be a little more heated and vulgar.
It seems that this playful back-and-forth “ridiculing” is unique to black culture, or at least much more prevalent in it. Why is that? What are the origins of this social trend? Is there a more accepted term than “ridicule” or “cracking on” when we talk about this trend?
I have no idea where you live or how sheltered you may have been, but what you have portrayed describes most of the subcultural experiences I have had–none of which have been predominantly related to black culture.
High school kids? Constant cracking on each other.
College kids? Please! Each group thinks they invented a new art form as they repeat the efforts of every cohort that has passed before them. (Read Romeo and Juliet and pay attention to the conversations among Romeo, Mercutio, and their merry band of hellraisers.)
Programmers or accountants and middle managers? Sarcasm and ridicule are a staple of lunchroom conversations.
Retail management and stock clerks? It is only interrupted by customers.
Construction workers? It makes up about 80% of their daily conversation.
Sailors? Only the fact that they are trapped together in small spaces for weeks at a time prevents them from escalating to violence.
Religious workers? It has always seemed pretty common in every group of priests and deacons with whom I have been involved.
You might be able to make a (weak) case that the type of badinage is different (or strikes your ears more harshly), but I have no idea why you would associate such back-and-forth exchanges as some sort of “black” phenomenon.
If you wish us to believe that you are some sort of “new” person, try examining your posts before you hit “submit” and ask yourself why you think there is or might be a racial component to your question. (There has rarely been and I think yoiu would be safer assuming there will not be.)
I have a suspicion that it happens most between males, of any colour. But then I’ve worked in mostly-male environments. And yeah I see it all the time.
BTW: I have no idea what “cracking” or “the dozens” is.
For a classic example of the dozens, look up a record called Say Man by Bo Diddley (1958). All it is is Bo and one of his bandsmen genially roasting each other over a catchy beat.
This has been my experience as well. It’s just another form of male bonding, like [del]drinking to excess with firearms present[/del]hunting. That said…
You could make the case that certain examples of it, like “the dozens,” do contain a far more ritualized aspect than the various forms of verbal abuse more commonly known. The linked article does feature an explanation of where the term came from and lists some other cultures known for doing so more formally.
Or we could stop getting all worked up over any racial component to a question and simply provide answers when possible.
Well, here is an uncited Wikipedia answer to the OP.
I’m not going to accuse VCO3 of being a racist, even though 65% of his threads focus on why black people are different from white people. Instead, I can only wonder what it is about his own culture that makes him blow his freakin’ mind that not everyone does or likes things that his own culture likes or does.
I mean, is it really such a profound revelation that different cultures have different customs?
Each of these OPs is like listening to children’s questions: Mommy, why is that person fat? Mommy, why does that man have a big nose? Mommy, why does that person have red hair? Certainly there are answers to all of those questions, but if you’re the sort that is compelled to ask the question, the actual answer probably isn’t going to satisfy you.
Taking the piss out of each other is an established tradition with us young male types (and probably older, but I can’t speak to that). I haven’t noticed any differences with race… maybe it’s different over there?
This OP, unbelievably, isn’t completely without merit. The dozens, yo mama jokes, and so forth have origins in the times of slavery. One couldn’t show emotion or be affected by insults… so Black men, especially, would insult each other in a game of sorts. The point was to beat your opponent with a withering insult, but equally importantly, not to lose one’s cool.
After emancipation the need to maintain one’s composure became even more important. “Talking back” to a White person could have dire consequences… think about Emmitt Till. So if you’d already heard the very worse insults aimed at you and kept it together, chances are that you’d be able to if a White person demeaned you in some way.
The other aspect of the dozens is that it’s played to an audience. Throwing insults to someone who isn’t present is perfectly acceptable… so if you had a particularly difficult encounter with a White person, you might bring your friends around to vent about it.
You’ll have to accept my degree concentration in African-American studies, and my faculty affiliate status with the Afro-Am department as a cite… I’m grading papers now and I’m not going to find a book about it right now!
Which, of course, is why we find similar behavior described in Aristophanes, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Cervantes, and other writers with little or no contact with 19th century North American slavery or with Mark Twain and O’Henry even when they were not writing about slavery or black culture.
I’m not saying that American slavery had no part in the establishment of the rubrics of particular exchanges, but I think you are trying to particularize a universal phenomenon.
It’s called signifying and it does have a special and larger role in Black American culture than in, say, almost any other culture. And yes, it does have its roots in Black guys reminding each other not to give Boss Charlie an excuse to lynch them.
If every male-dominated social group tends to engage in some form of ritualistic insult and the question posed is “Why does male-dominated social group X engage in some form of ritual insult?” then the qustion, as posed, is answered by the response, “Because that is how male-dominated social groups behave.”
If the separate question is asked, “Why do North American black ritualistic insults take the forms of “yo mama” and “the dozens” humor?” we might look at the slavery experience as a factor.
If the separate question is asked, “Why do male-dominated social groups engage in ritualistic insult?” then the answer will NOT be found in an examination of North American slaverly except as it is matched against other the male-dominated social groups seeking similarities in behaviors and stimuli.
I’ve heard its even more apparent in the military. There was a recent thread about the difficulty in adjusting to civilian life, and one of the responses was surprise that playfully suggesting his boss’ wife was a slut wasn’t an acceptable comment in the “real world”.
But in this case the specific question was asked and there is a rather specific answer. While every group engages in some form of insult based interaction, each group has their own specific manner of doing so. In this case, VC03 was asking about the black culture. Simply saying that all male cultures engage in it as you did in your first reply is at best a half answer and at worst needlessly dismissive.
Well, Tom, I would’ve cited my Sociology professor’s website, but she’s been dead for twenty years. I linked to Uncle Cecil mainly to give the phenomenon described a name. And while some form of signifying is no doubt universal, Black guys in South Philly do it differently from their whey-faced co-Pennsylvanians in Amish country.
Some great responses so far. I want to clarify, even though it’s in the OP, that I’m specifically talking about African Americans of both sexes, all age ranges, and all socioeconomic brackets. Someone seems to have spun this discussion exclusively to “young men,” and I’m not sure why.
I’ve seldom heard mid-twenties white girls crack on each other in the way that mid-twenties black girls do - in fact, if they did, it would probably be seen as a major affront. Likewise, I’ve never heard white mid-forties career businesswomen crack on each other over lunch and respond with “oh no you didn’t!” before upping the ante, and so on - ever.
The responses that it’s rooted in having to be tough under slavery and then segregation seems interesting, and makes the most sense to me, like an easier and more informal dominance game or toughening-up exercise. I’m interested to see more discussion about that.
Mods, please don’t allow people like this to abuse my threads. It’s against the rules and is not fair. I’ve turned over a new leaf here, and I deserve equal respect to other posters.