Or white for that matter. I’m involved in a thread in IMHO where the OP stated early on that white people who date black people act black and black people who date white people act white.
Many seem to think I’m being facetious when I asked how does one act white or black. What I got back was either a gansta rapper stereotype or some hazy “you know it when you see it” explanation.
Resolved:[ol] [li]There is no way to act either black or white. []Stereotypes are not useful tools for use in understanding your fellow Americans. []Cultures and sub-cultures that originate within a community do not define said community. (e.g. gansta rappers and Goths do not represent how blacks and whites act).[/ol][/li]These points seem to me to be so simple, yet both blacks and whites keep insisting that I’m the one who doesn’t know what she is talking about.
I think the term is more of an idiom that a literal phrase, an idiom that refers specifically to a subculture that is not found in other other cultures. “Going postal,” for example, surely doesn’t refer to most postal employees. If you accept that, then there’s not much debate.
One embraces certain stereotypes and implements them in his own life.
There is a stereotype that young black men listen to rap music 24/7. There is a stereotype that young black men often wear oversized basketball jerseys. Or big pants. Or baseball caps. Or drive particular cars with big stereos. Perhaps most noticibly, there is a stereotype of young black men using particular idiom, grammar, and accent in everyday speech.
So, a young white man wearing big clothes emblazoned with Carolina logos, with a baseball cap on backwards, listening to hip-hop with bone-cruching bass and saying “Yo, yo, yo, whassup mah homeys?” is considered by many to be “acting black.”
In reality, of course, he’s more accurately described as “acting in accordance with a series of stereotypes attributed to young black men.”
What I think people mean by ‘acting black’ is the gangsta rap image. But since the prototypical ‘gangsta rap’ style isn’t even evidenced by all folks self identifying as black in the US, let alone interantionally, I therefore agree w/your OP.
One thing that I will agree with, is that once couples get together, they often seem to merge towards each other in styles, whatever those styles should be (no, not always of course).
Biggirl, I’ve been wondering the same thing. I have a slightly different situation. I’m standard American white mutt combo. Mr. Seawitch is Mexican-American. Especially in this day and age, it never occurred to me to refer to us as a mixed-race couple. (Until, of course, some pinhead pointed it out.) While we were out having lunch, one of the other patrons used a perjorative term to Mr. S - a Spanish word that translates roughly between “Uncle Tom” and “oreo”. Meant as an insult, and implying that he was acting too white and shouldn’t be out with a white woman.
Mr. S was born here in California. His parents were both brought here as children. I speak more Spanish than he does. He wasn’t acting like anything other than himself. And yet someone was critical enough of his behaviour to insult him publicly. I don’t even know how he could go about acting Latino. Speak with a fake accent? Grow a little skinny mustache? Wave maracas? Engage in some other stereotypical bullcrap? Get divorced?
Now, clearly, the other man would not have been happy no matter what we did. However, these isolated examples are part of a larger social problem of overcoming racism on all fronts. Not expecting anyone to act any particular way is part of it.
[sub]Although on an individual level, I have learned to expect you to kick some ass if anyone posts racist garbage. Good show.[/sub]
Wring - saw you there on preview. I do agree that couples tend to merge a bit. However, it doesn’t just happen with couples of different “races”. When I dated an English guy years ago, I developed a temporary British accent. Nobody ever slammed me for “acting English”. Why, then, are mixed couples be a special case for criticism from some? It makes no damn sense.
There is a saying that goes, “Don’t be so open minded that your brain falls out.”
I have questioned several dozen people, both black and white, and EVERY SINGLE ONE knew what the phrase “acting white/black” means. An “according to Webster” definition may be difficult, but you can’t say that the phrase is meaningless.
You want to say that racism and unfair stereotypes are a bad thing? Fine. I don’t hear anybody disagreeing with you. You want to demonstrate the depth of your liberal sensibilities? Good for you. But don’t act like you don’t know what is meant by this phrase. It is disingenous at best.
Funny. I talked to dozens of people who thought the photo of the tourist on top of the WTC was real. They were incorrect, of course.
I have heard people say they could define “acting (fill in blank)”. Almost without exception, they meant, “(Insert negative stereotype here)”. A few meant “(recent media image)”. If questioned, they admitted that the description did not match individual behaviours. In some cases, they had never seen a member of the specified group performing the selected activity.
A concept that is too nebulous for definition, and yet “everyone knows” what it means? It seems to me just a subtle code to allow anyone to ascribe any characteristic they choose to a person, as typical of their group and therefore typical of that specific individual.
If you can provide an actual definition from your sources, please do.
Technically, couldn’t you say all Whites are mixed, since we’re all pretty much mutts-I mean, I’m:
Polish (Slavic race)
Hungarian (Maygar race)
Slovak (Slavic)
German/Austrian (Germanic race)
Irish (Celtic race)
Sheesh! 100 years ago, I would not have been considered White in this country. Which is why I don’t even like the phrase White.
The phrases aren’t meaningless because people don’t understand what is meant by them. The phrases are meaningless because they are founded on faulty, prejorative, insulting premises – the same premises which drive the offensive stereotypes that both Biggirl and I have been railing against in both this and the other thread. The phrases are meaningless because they’re just wrong, wrong in design, wrong in concept, wrong in use, totally wrong.
I don’t believe for a minute that Biggirl doesn’t know what the phrases are meant to say when they are used. What I think is that she is trying to use the rhetorical question to make people examine these phrases more carefully before they go throwing them around because they are absolutely inappropriate. They are racist, they are rude, they are destructive.
Let’s face it, the phrases are code language. When a white person says of a black person “he acts very black” what they’re saying is not a compliment. When a black person says of a white person “he’s acting black” it isn’t meant to applaud that person on their ability to interact on a common level with members of a different race. The only difference between saying someone is acting _____ and calling them a name (ngger, wgger, wannabe, etc.) is that one is more likely than the other to garner the speaker a punch in the mouth.
**seawich ** when I said “couples tend” I meant couples. all of em, IME, including all variations that I’ve observed (racial, ethnic, gender, socio-economic etc.)
and I see on preview, Smitty’s being taken to task for the ‘oh come on now’.
Biggirl lives in NYC, quite the ethnic buffet, as it were. So, no, I don’t suspect that she does know what some one else might mean by ‘acting black’ (especially if they mean the ‘gansta’ thing, which doesn’t really cover anyone except what one sees on gansta rap videos. Hell, my son goes to an inner city school, and it doesn’t even fit half of the kids I see there, who are young, black urban males. )
I agree. When I describe myself as white, it’s by default. I look white, and others tend to describe me that way. However, just like most of us, I have a little of everything. Since my family doesn’t have a well documented history, I don’t know what my background is for certain. I would imagine the same is true for people of all tints. I’m starting to like the Kurt Vonnegut idea of creating artificial, randomly matched clans, just so we can use new labels for a while.
wring - I had assumed you meant all couples. I didn’t mean to imply that the example I used was anything more than an illustration of your point. Forgive my poor wording if I implied otherwise.
There is also a saying that goes, “Don’t be so closed minded that you can’t question your beliefs.”
O.K., I made that up, but there really should be a saying like that.
** As I stated in my OP, I too have questioned many people. Many knew what this phrase meant. Or so they thought. I’m not looking for an “according to Webster’s” definition. An according to Smitty definition would do for now.
I did say stereotypes are a bad thing. Do you know what you mean when you utter this phrase? Care to explain?
It’s funny how people walk on eggshells over this issue.
I’m a midwestern farm boy. We have our own way of acting and it probably wouldn’t fit in at any urban locations. Nor does an urban personality fit in 'round these parts. The media portrayal of “acting black” usually consists of speaking in “ebonics,” wearing the gangsta rap attire, doing that bent wrist-fingers extended “whut up” gesture, and having quirky little sayings. It is a stereotype, just like the “all farm people are stupid, inbred, racist rednecks” crap I have to live with. There were 2 black kids I grew up with and, since they grew up in our tiny hometown, they “act rural.” The more correct way of wording the phrase “acting black” would be to say “acting urban/inner city,” but not everyone “urban” would fit into that stereotype, either.
Personally, I find it degrading to see blacks portraying that stereotype in the media. It’s the same as the stupid redneck (usually southern) white boy stereotype we keep seeing. I’d like to see more shows like the Cosby Show and The Hughleys. Both of those are genuinely good, entertaining shows that don’t base themselves on stereotypes about blacks, and they also don’t ignore the fact that they are black (in other words, they’re not “white” shows with black stars). As funny as Martin Lawrence is, I found his show to be somewhat offensive at times. I guess I could say the same about the Beverly Hillbillies.
Aside from the fact that you really can’t look at any one particular characteristic as being “black” or “white,” the fact is that stereotypes about “acting black” versus “acting white” are really pernicious. Nobody says “acting black” when they mean something positive. They mean baggy-pant, shambling walk, homeboy talk, or moving you neck, having a bubble butt and long talon nails, if you’re a woman. If you see a black person acting professionally or honorably or admirably, you don’t say that person is “acting black.” And most people don’t expect the homeboys and homegirls who do act “black” to be acting professionally or honorably or admirably. You’re not “acting black” when you’re going to work in a suit. You’re “acting black” when you’re hanging out on a street corner.
It just reinforces the idea that “black” equals “negative” but “white” equals “positive.”
I think BIGGIRL’s point is that if she is acting professionally or honorably or admirably, she is “acting black” because she is black. And any other construction on “acting black” denigrates both those who do act black (since that’s a negative thing) and those who don’t (what are they doing then, acting white?). And I assume that she’s asking the rest of you to set out what, precisely, you personally think “acting black” means in order to highlight that it very probably is not going to mean anything positive.
There is an unfortunate segment of the black population that views speaking proper English and getting an education as “acting white.”*
I certainly hope that is being eradicated.
I couldn’t quantify what “acting black” is, but I can say with some degree of certainly that suburban white kids will find whatever it is cool and mimic it quickly.
[sub]* Any of you who doubt the assertion are urged to do a google search on the following words: “blacks acting white when speaking proper English”.
Well, according to the Year 2000 U.S. Census forms, you’re not a mixed-race couple.
On the 2000 U.S. Census form, there was a section for “race,” where you had to check white, black, asian, amerindian, etc… “Hispanic” was conspicuously absent from this list. Below the check-boxes for “race,” there was a totally separate yes-no question: “Are you hispanic?”.
Both you and Mr. Seawitch would have had to have checked “white” as your race. (Unless Mr. Seawitch is a native-American Mexican-American or something.) The only difference is that he would check “Yes” on the “Are you hispanic?” line, while you would check “No.”
