Was thinking about this as I was watching a some fellow on the street make a fool of himself trying to “talk black” while chatting with a guy hitting him up for some money.
Then I realised that I had seen people make fools of themselves trying to act british when they meet someone from england, or act chinese/japanese when they met pretty much anyone oriental in appearance.
Now I wonder, does this treating of others in such a stereotyped fashion indicate racism, or a lack of subtlty and ignorance combined with a genuine desire show an appreciation and respect for that person’s culture?
Are people who “act black” mocking, or are they simply trying to conform to what they see as a black culture that has been advocated as separate and unique from mainstream american white culture?
(as for word “black” - wasn’t certain what else to use. seems fairly common, and “negroid” to indicate those of a very dark skin complexion combined with particular hair type I think has connotations due to a similar word. african-american is silly, since many have nothing to do with africa for a couple hundred years (I’m more of a european-canadian…) and quite a few aren’t even american. 'Sides, I would think the word is insulting to those from the Carribean if you use it with them, it would be sooo transparent)
If you change your speech to a less-educated form to talk to a black person, yes, you are racist. Would you go up to Maya Angelou or Colin Powell and say, “Sheeiit, mah sista/brutha,
wassup wit’ yo’ funky black self?” I think not. Why, then, would you do that to a black guy on the street or to a black co-worker? Talking in street slang doesn’t make you “down
with the brothers,” it makes you look like a condescending fool.
I don’t know. I tend to talk like the people I’m working with. When I was working in restaurants in North Carolina, I tended to use the prevalent slang. Which was much different from the slang I used working in restaurants in Utah.
I don’t know that being a white man and using “black” slang is in itself racist. Certainly someone who walks up to Maya Angelou and says “whassup, girl?” is an idiot.
But if someone comes up to me and says “whassup, man?” I’m inclined to respond in kind. Just as someone who greets me with “Howdy” will likely hear me respond “howdy.”
Of course not. But if one automatically speaks street slang to every black person, trying to “talk on their level,” then yes, one is a racist.
If someone gives me a “wassup,” I’ll give 'em a “wassup” back. But I don’t try to talk street to black people upon
first meeting them, which IIRC is the thrust of the OP.
Most of what you descibe sounds like the natural inclination to assimilate. It’s a habit I also have (really funny some mornings when I’m talking to our European customers). And like a lot of Black people I know, I have a tendency to jump back and forth form “plain speak” to a more casual “black speak”, depending on the audience.
Well, a couple of months ago I read about the conservative middle aged black member of the staff of a prominent person who, while listening to his Walkman, was taken aback when his boss came up to him and said “Hey whatcha listening to- some rap?” I would say the boss was indeed a fool- of course he’s also the President-elect. JDM
Darn it, JDM! I was going to tell that story. (That’s not exactly it, though.) I don’t want to get into Bush-bashing, but this is an awfully good example of this kind of behavior.
*"A few weeks ago, Washington Post reporter Terry Neal, an African-American, was sitting on the Bush campaign plane listening to his Walkman. Bush came to the back of the plane and approached him, in front of a number of other reporters.
“Whatcha listenin’ to?” Bush asked Neal. “Some rap?”
Neal now will only say that he and Bush generally get along well, and that, no, he wasn’t listening to rap. But the issue seemed to speak to a larger ignorance – the self-contained cluelessness of a man who makes it to 54 without realizing it might be offensive to assume that an African-American wearing a Walkman is probably listening to Snoop Doggy Dogg."*
If one is trying to fit in with the culture as a matter of politeness, then that’s one thing. If the people around you bow to say hello, you bow, too. Just let them bow first so you know what’s polite. While I don’t think this behavior is necessarily racist (since people will do this for those they perceive to be different from them when they’re trying to fit in, and the difference isn’t always race), I agree that it makes the person doing it look like a condescending idiot.
I also unconsciously pick up the cadences of the people I’m talking to.
When I opened up this thread, I thought it would be talking about a larger issue - is it acceptable to treat blacks (or other minorities) differently than you treat whites? I think yes - I think those who argue that we should treat all people the same are mistaken.
For me, it comes down to a simple reality - I’ve never been called a nigger, while too many of my black friends have. Growing up black in America means you have had a very different life experience (regardless of socio-economic background) than I have had. It also means you grew up in a different culture than I did (though of course there is much overlap). If I don’t respect those differences, I’m doing him/her and me a disservice.
This extends beyond black-white relations. I have two friends, one a fifth-generation Italian-American, and the other an immigrant from about 15 years ago. On occasion, I’ll joke with my assimilated friend by saying something along the lines of “How’d your Da-go?” That’s something I’d never say to my immigrant friend. The sensitivities and experiences are different.
I saw an episode of Oprah where Ms. Winfrey apologized for her tendency to imitate the speech patterns of people she talked with. Apparently she started mimicking some guests who were on her show once and somebody took it as her mocking them. She explained how it was not that way, she just does that subconsciously.
I think it’s natural for people to start to imitate the people they interact with. Some people do it more obviously than others, and in some extreme cases I can see how it would be misinterpreted.
Isn’t there some litmus test to see if a white person can get away with using African-American Vernacular English without sounding condescending or foolish?
I mean, some people just aren’t cool enough to pull it off.
Please explain in what way, and why, minorities should be treated differently (better? worse? seperate but equal?) from ‘everyone else’ (by which I assume you mean whites).
I have a very hard time keeping myself from picking up the slang, speech patterns and even accent of someone I’m talking to – the more pronounced it is (particularly the accent), the more liable I am to fall into mimicking it if I don’t catch myself doing it.
Strange? Yeah. Insulting? Could be. Intentional? Not in the least.
What I mean by this is that blacks/hispanics/asians/other/recent immigrants come from a different background and have had different life experiences that white assimilated Americans, and it behooves everyone to acknowledge and recognize these differences. I’m talking exclusively about personal relationships, not in the law.
I learned this the hard way at a very young age - being beaten up by an Italian-American friend who, while hitting me informed that it is unwise to insult an Italian’s mother.
Similarly, I can call a Irish-American buddy a “mick”, but even my closest black friends I don’t call “nigger”.
To me, this is very simple - I do not have, and cannot pretend to have the experience of growing up black/hispanic/etc. Therefore, in my dealings with friends of these different backgrounds, I act differently.
Accents are contagious. When I was in Senior High, our audio-visual coordinator was a woman with an incredibly thick Scottish accent… after about 10 minutes exposure, you could plan on spending the rest of the day trying to hammer your pronounciation back into shape. Although even then we were worried that she might think we were making fun of her (great lady, we cared what she thought about us).
I have been prone to assimilate the grammar and speach of others around me. Perfect example was the three weeks I spend in Russia.
Most younger Russians have been taught english to some degree. (the ones I have met of course) While some have an amazing knowledge of english words and difinations they have yet to master the grammer changes.
Needless to say after 3 weeks I spoken in broken odd english because I has adjusted myself to think and speak in a way easiest to be understood.
I wasn’t thinking of assimilation, per se, but more of acting in a way you perceive to be typical of a person’s culture whom you have just met.
I called it a new theory (new for me), since I had always thought these people were being snide until I had this flash of realization.
We were the only parochial school in the diocese who knew all the words to “Scotland the Brave” in the proper accent.
And the American nuns that appeared out of nowhere when we hit high school were a major shock… “What do you mean, not all nuns have Scottish accents?!”
There’s some stuff in linguistics that we’ve been talking about recently called registers. Basically, a register is the manner in which you address someone, and depends on the speaker as well as the addressee. People speak differently to their friends than to their supervisors, babies and children tend to be addressed in higher pitches than adults… these are the things which registers are comprised of.
Something I found interesting was the idea of accomodation- that is, two speakers would attempt to “meet in the middle” in terms of registers. Osip’s earlier post gave an example of this- if he had spoken fluent English, he would not have been understood, so broken English was an accomodation.
Of course, it’s something that’s commonly overshot. I would call a lot of it simple overcompensation. Many different situations require register shifts, and a person who isn’t really familiar (orat ease with) someone of a different cultural background might just get it wrong.
I wouldn’t say that it made someone racist by default.
(That’s not exactly it, though.) I don’t want to get into Bush-bashing, but this is an awfully good example of this kind of behavior.