Ack! What to do when your SO belongs in Etiquette Hell?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Okay, maybe it’s not that bad, but I seriously need some help dealing with this non-hypothetical situation!

The scene: my brother’s wedding, in another country. The bride’s parents are paying for a destination wedding - they’re picking up the hotel room for three nights, the meals, everything but the mini-bar and room service. We’re paying for airline tickets to get there and a gift, (if they ever make their gift registry!). This is NOT the sort of thing we could normally afford to do, except with their generosity.

I should mention here that I’ve never met her parents. Our parents have never met her parents! We’re all meeting for the first time the night before the wedding. No pressure.

I should also mention that I’m not terribly close with my brother. I love him a lot, but he’s 10 years older than I and spent most of the last two decades in Europe, so I just don’t know him all that well. Still, I love his fiancee, and she and I and he and my husband get on very well, the few times we’ve hung out together. I’m seriously looking forward to this wedding in a big way.

The website detailing the plans mentions “cocktail attire” for the reception. I mentioned to my husband that we’re going to have to hit the thrift stores for a suit for him. He said no way. He said, “they can’t tell me what to wear!” “Yes, they can!” I replied, “It’s the condition of the invitation - if it’s their wedding, they get to tell us what to wear to it!”

I’m embarrassed and furious. I’m so embarrassed and furious that I can’t talk with him about this right now until I calm down and get my head clear.

He does not own a suit. He owns a couple of sport coats. I don’t think he owns a tie. His idea of “nice” is slacks, a colored t-shirt or mock turtleneck and an unironed button up shirt over the t-shirt. Which generally works for family functions and things, but it’s NOT “cocktail”.

'Elp! What do I do? I can’t make him wear a suit, but how do I handle it if he won’t?

I should also add that he’s unsure about even going. His dissertation is due to his advisor 10 days before the date, and he’s got midterms to grade the week before and weekend of the wedding, so he might drive himself crazy trying to fit a quick weekend trip out of the country into his plans. In truth, I don’t really care much if he goes or not - I’m going regardless. I told him it’s up to him to decide if he wants to go, and there are truly no hard feelings if he doesn’t. (I figure if he does, great, it will be a sweet little romantic getaway, and if he doesn’t, great, I’ll have girly fun with my stepmom and the bride.)

We have to RSVP by the 15th.

2

Ack. You’re supposed to outgrow this attitude in adulthood. :wink: Dressing properly for the occasion shows respect for the people you are with. Not dressing properly–whether wearing an expensive work outfit to a summer BBQ or refusing to wear a tie to a formal occasion–is a symbolic gesture of disrespect to the company. It sends a message, and that message is “I don’t care about you, your feelings, or your stupid party. And I’m better than you.”

It may be harsh, but if he won’t dress like a reasonable adult, he can stay home.

3

What dangermom said. People you’ve never even met are paying for a vacation in another country except for the plane tickets (which are often the cheapest part of a vacation), and if he can’t suck it up and dress nice then he shouldn’t go.

4

I could scan in a photo of a SO at the head table for my wedding - in baggy jeans and a T-shirt. Then you could ask him if he wants to be that person…

Okay, that’s a really bad idea, I’m sure. And even if it’s not, that SO is still in my life (even if the marriage failed, sadly), so I can’t really do that.

I can’t say. For my ex and I, the person’s presence was more important than the fact that he was so horribly out of place. We also had a “heads up” that it was going to happen, as the bridal party member who was dating this person had fought and lost to get more proper attire purchased and worn, and was nearly hysterical over it. We assured her that it wasn’t worth it.

But he looks very, very out of place. Our best man wanted to throw him out, and made the same comments when looking at the photos. Others have made the same comments. All were met with, “No, that was not worth it.” The response has unanimously been about how disrespectful this attire was.

I do not believe it was disrespectful out of this person in particular. I know him fairly well, and he is a good man who doesn’t really understand social niceties, and I felt comfortable giving him a pass. Others I might have felt differently about. But he’s never, ever seen these photos. I do sometimes wonder how he’d feel if he did. Would he see how out of place he looked? Would he feel bad? I don’t know, and I probably never will now that there will be little cause anymore to pull out those old photos.

I hope you get it figured out, and I hope he goes. It sounds like he could use a “sweet little romantic getaway”. I know that the cooking classes I was gifted as an early graduation gift, and started before I’d submitted and defended my thesis, were a huge help in keeping me sane. Perhaps you could say it to him like that, and that the cost is simply airfare, and one evening of attire he’s not totally familiar with?

Good luck.

5

I think he needs to know exactly what’s at stake, why this is important and what you expect. I know this won’t be an easy conversation to have, any time you criticize someones manners they are going to get defensive. For these kinds of conversations, you need to have them when things have calmed down.

Also, I’d pray like hell that he doesn’t want to go to the wedding, you have a perfect out with his academic schedule.

6

I’ve been trying to figure out how to word this so it doesn’t sound silly or condescending. I don’t think I’ve been successful, but I’ll throw it out for consideration anyway.

In the past, you’ve posted a link to a very nice picture of you and him in RenFair (I think) costumes. So apparently he is willing to dress up in something other than his normal attire if a “role” requires it.

Remind him that weddings are one of the few opportunities for pageantry left in modern life. (Being an academic, he can probably appreciate one of the others–cap and gown ceremonies.) By dressing up for a wedding in clothes more formal than he would wear otherwise, he is playing a ceremonial role the 21st century’s last remaining real-life costume affairs.

7

KayElCee, nice angle! Maybe the OP’s SO will “get” it then, once it is put to him that way? I hope so.

8

I think your husband is right. I don’t think the hosts have any right to tell the guests what to wear. That’s exactly the kind of thing that makes me hate weddings. If the hosts actually care, then they’re very petty people.

I have a sense that maybe your husband just really doesn’t want to go, though, and this is one of his ways of telling you. It’s exactly the kind of thing I would do.

9

Nothing is at stake.

10

Actually, I disagree that nothing is at stake. What is at stake is that WhyNot is meeting future family members for the first time. She presumably hopes to make a good impression. She also presumably does not want to disrupt or otherwise spoil (in even a small way) her brother’s wedding. Further, she probably wants to enjoy herself and maybe have a nice time dressed up.

So one thing that might be at stake is that meeting new family members will be akward. Also, it is possible that the feelings of the OP are at stake. Often times in relationships one has to take into account the feelings of the other.

11

I am absolutely not a ‘wedding person’; my own wedding was very casual, and I loved that.

However.

Dressing inappropriately (whatever ‘appropriate’ means to the specific occasion) shows disrespect. You* can say ‘Nothing is at stake’ or ‘They’re being unreasonable’ all you like, but the simple fact of the matter is that by *deliberately dressing differently to everyone else at that event *you’re making a showpiece of yourself.

And that’s rude. It’s not All About You.

When you have your own wedding, by all means feel free (as I did) to make the dress code ‘whatever you feel comfortable in’ - but when you’re at someone else’s event and they’ve indicated they’d like people to dress up, then either dress up or don’t go.

  • I’ve quoted DtC, but throughout the post I mean the generic ‘you’, not DTC specifically.
12

I wouldn’t reason with him, I’d ask him if he’d comply because it matters to you, because even if he doesn’t care about anyone else’s comfort, he presumbably cares about yours. The more you say “they will think . . .they will think . . .they will think . . . .” the more you will make him stubborn because 1) it appears that you care more what other people think than you do about him and 2) he also thinks he knows what they would think–that it’s no big deal–and why should he trust your understanding of them over his own? You don’t know them either. So quit trying to argue that it’s for them, and make it clear it’s for you: “I know you hate a suit, but it’s one night, and it would make me feel much better about things”. If he won’t budge, then ask him not to go, don’t tell him he doesn’t have to if he doesn’t want to–that smacks of passive aggressiveness.

And if he absolutely cannot stand to wear a suit and he absolutely wants to go, then remember that you are not him, he doesn’t reflect on you, and this may be something you just have to tolerate and accept, assuming that most of the time he’s someone you respect and admire and that he’s tolerant/accepting of your quirks and follies in turn. You don’t get to tell him he “can’t” go if he won’t dress properly–he was invited, and he’s not a child.

13

Wow, you are all amazing (yeah, even you, **Diogenes **:wink: )

He does want to go. He also doesn’t want to go. What can I say, whether or not you believe in astrology, he’s the textbook Gemini. If he had a motto, it would be “Ambivalent…perhaps?” :smiley:

KayElCee, you’re brilliant. Y’know, the man (my husband, I mean) writes academically and teaches courses on contemporary rituals, with an emphasis on initiatory rights! That’s actually what his dissertation is about, in a roundabout way. I think you’ve hit on the best possible way to spin this. He’s more than happy to wear a robe to a neopagan ritual (which is probably the picture you remember - Summer Equinox, I believe that was); a suit is merely the Muggle equivalent of the ritual robe!

Manda JO, you’ve also hit it right on the head, except the bit about the passive-aggressiveness. When I told him there are no hard feelings either way, there weren’t. I don’t play the “read my mind, ignore what I’m saying” game, and he knows that - EXCEPT that this suit thing added a spin into it after the fact. If he doesn’t wear a suit, you’re right, I wouldn’t want him to go, because I would feel embarrassed. I would feel out of place (and I’m embarrassed enough being the poor relatives as it is - my own “cocktail” dress will be the finest that Nordstrom Rack has to offer for the $50 giftcard I got for Christmas!) and as if people would be judging us, and rightly, because he didn’t know the proper dress for the occasion or didn’t own a suit.

I can’t say whether or not the hosts would really care, because I don’t know them. The care enough to mention it in the invite, so I assume they care somewhat. But I care. Like **BlueKangaroo **points out, having someone’s clothing remarkably different from everyone else’s sticks out, and it sticks out in a selfish, immature way. I don’t really want to be associated with that. If that makes me petty, so be it.

So I guess I need to reword my stance on his going or not. How do I say, “If you don’t want to wear a suit, I’d rather you not come. If you’re willing to wear a suit and don’t want to come, that’s fine; if you’re willing to wear a suit and want to come, that’s fine too.” without it sounding all whiny and ultimatum-ey?

14

Just like that. Maybe switch it around a little. “I understand if your school schedule makes it impossible for you to come. However, if you decide to come, you will need to wear a suit.”

“But I don’t want to wear a suit.”

“Fine, stay home. I will miss you very much, because I love you. But there is no compromise on the suit.”

15

Doesn’t that make me sound like the boss of him? I see resistance there!

16

Bingo! My husband and I have a general agreement that marriage is about once in a while acceding to your spouse’s (to you) completely irrational, quirky desires, when it isn’t something really monumental. My tack would be totally about how having him there dressed differently would make me feel really uncomfortable, and ruin the whole occasion for me, however loopy or arbitrary that may be.

I guess if he really is bound and determined to attend in casual clothes, you don’t have authority to stop him, but hopefully you saying, “I love and adore you, and would enjoy having you there, but if you’re not wearing a suit, I would actually prefer you just stay home,” would take care of it.

(BTW, at least you get advance warning to deal with it. The thread title flashed me back to sitting in our neighbors’ living room next to my dear, thick husband, as he said, “So the new tax valuation on our house is $X - what did yours come in at?” At that point the best I could do was steer away the conversation and later educate him a bit!)

17

You don’t say where this wedding will be, but if it is in Europe, adults tend to dress more formally there as a matter of course anyway. Nothing will scream ‘SCHLUBBY AMERICAN HERE!’ more than not dressing up for a dress-up occasion. And since I assume he would rather not call attention to himself (and allow the focus to be on the bride and bridegroom, as it should be), it would really be in his best interest to just suck it up and go with the program. Perhaps you could explain it to him that way?

18

I think Manda and Cinnamon are on the right track. Unless there is some deeper issue here, his desire to protect you from discomfort and embarrassment should easily outweigh his clothing preferences. Make it clear that the issue is not the clothes per se, and it’s not about making him conform to what other people think; it is about you and your feelings.

19

I find it interesting that the reaction to “cocktail attire” is that it is a dressing command.
Rather than it being a wardrobe edict, I think of it as a helpful tip. If you were going to a party on October 31st, you would want to know if it was a costume party or not. The invitation assumes that a person would be uncomfortable without a suit/cocktail dress. I like it when invitations specify attire. It keeps me from worrying if I’ll be over/underdressed relative to others.
I recognize that there are people out there who hate dressing up more than they hate standing out as the one in jeans amist suits, but I can’t relate. I’d rather fit in, apparel-wise.

20

I hate this attitude that you are deemed “petty” by the fashionably lazy if you care what your guests wear to your wedding. I’ve heard that one before. It’s as if only the people that have the wacky weddings where everyone can come as they are are somehow better friends or cooler people for doing this. I don’t think I have worse or petty friends because they want to have a black tie party, and expect everyone to dress accordingly.

A lot of people think dressing up is fun. I bet a lot of the women in the so called casual and more fun crowds somewhere inside themselves relish the opportunity to wear cocktail attire. Some people are traditional. Some people may not care but come from traditional families where the ritual and pageantry is important to the older generations, for the sake of things going swimmingly, would hope their friends could just fucking get on board without pouting and pulling on their itchy tie like a five year old boy.

It’s usually the people who don’t dress up in suits or business formal (is that a term?) that complain about cocktail attire events. It’s not really that hard. Wrestle him into a suit and tell him to fight you about it later. That’s what I would do. (I have a silicon valley tech nerd boyfriend who also does not own a suit) I personally don’t understand this mindset of being outraged at requests to dress up, but he should do it for you and everyone else. It’s nice to have the pictures of everyone on the rare occasion where they can dress up to honor and respect a marriage.