R.I.P Bobby Fischer -we'll miss you.

[Phlosphr]

Bobby Fischer has died at the young age of 64. For those chess lovers and people who admired him, he will be missed. I'll remember him as a brilliant mind in chess and civil a disobedient cool guy...

We'll miss you.

[RikWriter]

He was a Holocaust denying anti-Semitic nutcake. He won't be missed by me.

[ASAKMOTSD]

IBM reports that Deep Blue is sad...

[CalMeacham]

I first knew his name from the chess column he used to write in Boys' Life. Does anybody remember that? I never see it mentioned in any news report on Fischer.

[Trunk]

He won't be missed.

Most people are probably glad.

Kasparov once said that Fischer was further ahead of the other players of his generation than anyone else ever. That's a really great way to measure any accomplishment.

How much is my copy of "60 Memorable Games" worth now?

[Kiros]

Sure, he was insane, but he was also an inspiration. When I was a little kid and too young to understand all of the political and anti-semitic stuff going on with him, and just knew him for his chess stories, Bobby Fischer was the coolest thing ever. RIP.

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

He was a Holocaust denying anti-Semitic nutcake. He won't be missed by me.

I think there's not much doubt he had one hell of a personality disorder. I'm sorry for his death, just for the sake of his chess. He turned in some phenomenal performances in his time, such as brushing Mark Taimanov and Bent Larsen aside as irrelevant annoyances (6-0 in a World Championship Candidates match, twice!), and chess is the poorer for his disappearance from the competitive scene when he still had many good years in front of hi.

[Annie-Xmas]

This weekend I will be playing the musical "Chess" in memory.

[Phlosphr]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

He was a Holocaust denying anti-Semitic nutcake. He won't be missed by me.

As a kid, Fischer was who young chess players looked up to, our parents standing idly in the background shooshing us because he was such a nutcase, but there are still people like myself that remember those fonder times.

[RTFirefly]

The brilliant chessplayer of the 1960s and his incredible run to the world championship in 1972, we'll miss. But we've missed that Fischer for over three decades, ever since he didn't show up to defend his championship in 1975.

But of the Fischer who used his fame as a platform for anti-Semitic rants and who called the attacks on September 11, 2001 "wonderful news," I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Phlosphr]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

The brilliant chessplayer of the 1960s and his incredible run to the world championship in 1972, we'll miss. But we've missed that Fischer for over three decades, ever since he didn't show up to defend his championship in 1975.

But of the Fischer who used his fame as a platform for anti-Semitic rants and who called the attacks on September 11, 2001 "wonderful news," I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

I agree with that.

[Spiff]

I hope this is not too much of a hijack, but what's up with this?

"Fischer claimed it would bring the fun back into the game and rid it of cheats."

That's a quote from a CNN obit describing Fischerandom, his new brand of chess whereby the back row is randomly shuffled prior to a match.

How does one cheat at chess, either regular chess or Fisherandom?

[Trunk]

People can cheat at chess, especially now with computers, but I think that fischer was probably just using "cheats" as a sort of crazy perjorative.

He thinks that opening preparation has strangled a lot of what people love about chess, and probably has some reason to believe that people who have prepped with computers or something are "cheats".

I don't know if you could get a good rationale for a lot of things he says.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by Spiff

How does one cheat at chess,...

The coaches can send their player coded messages during a match by giving him different flavors of yogurt, stuff like that.

[aldiboronti]

Horrible guy but as a young chess player he was a god. I stll remember playing over all his games at the time of the Fischer-Spassky match. Pure genius. He and Mikhail Tal were the heroes of my chess playing youth.

Ave atque vale, Bobby. I hope that the memory of the person you became will fade away leaving only that bright burning moment of your youth when you became one of the greatest players in the history of chess.

[borschevsky]

Originally Posted by Trunk

People can cheat at chess, especially now with computers, but I think that fischer was probably just using "cheats" as a sort of crazy perjorative.

Fischer thought that a lot of games were pre-arranged move-for-move, for example from the Karpov-Kasparov matches. Random would prevent this; since the players would not know the starting position prior to the game, they could not play a pre-arranged set of moves.

[glee]

Originally Posted by Spiff

I hope this is not too much of a hijack, but what's up with this?

"Fischer claimed it would bring the fun back into the game and rid it of cheats."

That's a quote from a CNN obit describing Fischerandom, his new brand of chess whereby the back row is randomly shuffled prior to a match.

How does one cheat at chess, either regular chess or Fisherandom?

To explain what he meant, I need to give a little background:

Fischer was a brilliant chess player but a lonely, sad man.

He faced the might of the Soviet Union, which had invested heavily in chess to gain national and international fame. In a typical international tournament, Fischer would face four world-class Russian players. They would often agree short draws amongst themselves (to give themselves a rest day), but go all out against Fischer. It wouldn't matter which Russian finished above Fischer, as long as at least one did.

So Fischer felt the World was against him.

He also had no diplomatic skills, so if tournament conditions were not ideal (such as poor lighting), his justified complaint might lead to an argument, feeding his feelings of persecution.

Now onto why Fischerandom might reduce 'cheating':

The opening moves in chess have been analysed since the current rules were settled (about 500 years ago).

For professional players, it is important to analyse your own openings (looking for mistakes and improvements) and also to be well-briefed on your rivals opening choices in their published games.

This is very hard work, especially since you are not allowed memory aids in chess!

In Fischer's time, the games and analysis was published in books and magazines. Now the Soviets paid their very top players to play, but also paid for top quality trainers and analysts. So every time Fischer played a new opening move in a game, it would be analysed throughly by a team of Soviet analysts.

Fischer didn't trust many people, so did all this work himself. He felt that this was a massive disadvantage and called it 'cheating'.

Now if you don't know what the exact opening position is going to be (as per Fischerandom), then all your opening analysis is redundant and so it reduces 'cheating'.

P.S. Nowadays all top games are recorded on computer, and there are databases containing millions of such games, all neatly organised. So a tournament player today will spend an hour or to studying his opponent's recent games before playing. In between events, the player will spend hours each day looking ofr improvements.

[glee]

Originally Posted by Robot Arm

The coaches can send their player coded messages during a match by giving him different flavors of yogurt, stuff like that.

This is based on a single incident in the bitterly contested Karpov - Korchnoi match:

On the 25th move of game 2, a waiter delivered a tray with a glass of violet colored yogurt to Karpov. After the game Leeuwerik sent a letter to Schmid protesting the yogurt. 'It is clear that a cunningly arranged distribution of edible items to one player during the game, emanating from one delegation or the other, could convey a kind of code message'. Although the letter was almost certainly tongue-in-cheek, Baturinsky took it seriously and suggested that the binoculars Leeuwerik used during the game might also convey a coded message to Korchnoi.
By the time a waiter delivered another tray holding yogurt to Karpov on the 17th move of game 3, the first incident had been blown out of proportion by both Baturinsky and Leeuwerik. A few days later the jury met and agreed that Karpov could receive a beverage at a fixed time and that Schmid would be notified before the game if it would not be a violet colored yogurt.

http://www.mark-weeks.com/chess/78kk$$01.htm

There have been recent suggestions that Topalov's coach signalled him during a recent Dutch event.
All extremely unlikely, in my opinion.

[glee]

Originally Posted by borschevsky

Fischer thought that a lot of games were pre-arranged move-for-move, for example from the Karpov-Kasparov matches.

Have you got a cite for this?
Karpov was the darling of the Soviet establishment; Kasparov was seen as a 'rebel'. The players were real rivals - it's implausible that they would have co-operated on anything like this.

[Paul in Qatar]

When you look at grandmasters through history, few of them lived long, happy lives. What's up with that? Perhaps "normal" people cannot play chess at the highest level, and so those who do are abnormal.

A sad life.

--edited for typos--

[borschevsky]

Originally Posted by glee

Have you got a cite for this?
Karpov was the darling of the Soviet establishment; Kasparov was seen as a 'rebel'. The players were real rivals - it's implausible that they would have co-operated on anything like this.

I don't know where Fischer originally claimed this, but I have seen it referenced a few times. For example

http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/...settles_in.htm

http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/vi...3&context=cbmb (pdf)

[Annie-Xmas]

As per wikipedia, Fischer died at age 64, which is coincidentally the number of squares on a chessboard.

Yes, I'm the Arbitur, I know the score.
From square one I'll be watching all sixty-four.

Lyrics by Tim Rice

[Phlosphr]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

As per wikipedia, Fischer died at age 64, which is coincidentally the number of squares on a chessboard.

Yes, I'm the Arbitur, I know the score.
From square one I'll be watching all sixty-four.

Lyrics by Tim Rice

Don't know why I didn't pick up on this, I'll just say...wow.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by Paul in Saudi

When you look at grandmasters through history, few of them lived long, happy lives. What's up with that? Perhaps "normal" people cannot play chess at the highest level, and so those who do are abnormal.

A sad life.

--edited for typos--

I don't know if that's true...I think people just focus on the ones who had unhappy lives.

Steinitz obviously went crazy at the end of his life (which might have been due to syphillis)

Lasker lived to 71, and except for near the end of his life, where he had to flee the Nazis and leave all his money and property behind, he was fairly happy.

Capablanca died young, but was happy enough.

Alekhine also died young, but was fairly normal, except for the potential Nazi collaboration thing, but that could have been a combination of the fact that he was a White Russian, and desired to protect his Jewish wife.

Euwe died at 80, and was normal.

Botvinnik died at 83, and again, was pretty normal.

Smyslov died at 86.

Tal was an alcoholic and died young.

Petrossian died young.

Spassky died at 70.

Karpov, Kasparov, Kramnik, and Anand are all still alive, and while Kasparov isn't all that popular with the Russian government, and Kramnik has a weird kind of arthritis, none of them are particularly miserable.

[wolf_meister]

As Paul in Saudi mentioned, chess champions do not live long and happy lives. Fischer's sad life may be vaguely analogous to that of Paul Morphy the only other United States chess giant.

Personally, I can forgive Fischer's rather strange behavior in his later life especially when contrasted with the brilliant chess wizardry of his earlier life.

R.I.P. Bobby

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

I don't know if that's true...I think people just focus on the ones who had unhappy lives.

Steinitz obviously went crazy at the end of his life (which might have been due to syphillis)

Lasker lived to 71, and except for near the end of his life, where he had to flee the Nazis and leave all his money and property behind, he was fairly happy.

Capablanca died young, but was happy enough.

Alekhine also died young, but was fairly normal, except for the potential Nazi collaboration thing, but that could have been a combination of the fact that he was a White Russian, and desired to protect his Jewish wife.

Euwe died at 80, and was normal.

Botvinnik died at 83, and again, was pretty normal.

Smyslov died at 86.

Tal was an alcoholic and died young.

Petrossian died young.

Spassky died at 70.

Karpov, Kasparov, Kramnik, and Anand are all still alive, and while Kasparov isn't all that popular with the Russian government, and Kramnik has a weird kind of arthritis, none of them are particularly miserable.

That appears not to be common knowledge.

[RikWriter]

Originally Posted by wolf_meister

As Paul in Saudi mentioned, chess champions do not live long and happy lives. Fischer's sad life may be vaguely analogous to that of Paul Morphy the only other United States chess giant.

Personally, I can forgive Fischer's rather strange behavior in his later life especially when contrasted with the brilliant chess wizardry of his earlier life.

R.I.P. Bobby

Do you feel the same way about, say, Mel Gibson?

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by Malacandra

That appears not to be common knowledge.

Ok...let me correct that by saying, "Spassky is 70 and still alive...."

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

Ok...let me correct that by saying, "Spassky is 70 and still alive...."

For which I'm duly grateful. He's played some mighty fine chess of his own over the years - and it said much for Fischer's skill that he could concede two games start to Spassky in Reykjavik 1972 through a combination of a schoolboy error in Game 1 and refusing to turn up for Game 2, and still hand him a dreadful hiding.

[BarnOwl]

Wasn't there some concern about mental telepathy during the Iceland chess match?

Honest. I seem to remember someone complaining about it - A Russian or Fischer, himself. (I'd a mentioned the city there, but I can't spell it.)

And wasn't the coverage grand! We had Shelby Lyman doing the blow by blows, and a bunch of other Masters chipping in. It was wonderful.

In one match it was down to a couple of pawns each. It was Fischer's move and everyone in the studio was speculating frantically. No one had a clue of what Fischer was up to. And then he moved!

KAPOW!!!!!!!!!!!

It was all over and no one guessed that move. Thrilling? A total understatement

[Liberal]

He was a lunatic, to be sure. But his games were so amazingly beautiful. They were the perfect balance of aggression, finesse, defense, and all the elements. There was a time when he had no peer, and had he stayed with it, that time would have lasted much longer. My personal dealings with him were maddening, but I still consider him to be the last undefeated world chess champion, and I blame the USCF for his disappearance and subsequent descent into madness.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by glee

Have you got a cite for this?
Karpov was the darling of the Soviet establishment; Kasparov was seen as a 'rebel'. The players were real rivals - it's implausible that they would have co-operated on anything like this.

There's a fair bit of daylight between, "What Bobby Fischer believed," and "What's actually plausible."

[Elendil's Heir]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

The brilliant chessplayer of the 1960s and his incredible run to the world championship in 1972, we'll miss. But we've missed that Fischer for over three decades, ever since he didn't show up to defend his championship in 1975.

But of the Fischer who used his fame as a platform for anti-Semitic rants and who called the attacks on September 11, 2001 "wonderful news," I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

Amen, amen, amen.

[Argent Towers]

I don't think Fischer was an anti-Semite, I think he was suffering from very severe mental problems which happened to manifest themselves in bizarre anti-Semitic ranting. (He himself was born Jewish, after all.)

I think this is different from someone who is of normal mental state and still chooses to be anti-Semitic. Fischer was probably schizophrenic or suffering from dementia.

[Troy McClure SF]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

Do you feel the same way about, say, Mel Gibson?

Yeah, really. A dick is a dick. Barry Bonds was a great and fairly liked player early in his career but I don't hear anyone talking about that these days.

[Larry Borgia]

Originally Posted by Argent Towers

I don't think Fischer was an anti-Semite, I think he was suffering from very severe mental problems which happened to manifest themselves in bizarre anti-Semitic ranting. (He himself was born Jewish, after all.)

I think this is different from someone who is of normal mental state and still chooses to be anti-Semitic. Fischer was probably schizophrenic or suffering from dementia.

I agree with this. His hate-filled rants seemed more sad and pathetic than anything else. Watching a once brilliant mind devour itself was heartbreaking.

[Gangster Octopus]

His games are still out there to be seen, so I can appreciate those. But considering what he has contriobuted lately, I won't be missing him at all.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Troy McClure SF

Yeah, really. A dick is a dick. Barry Bonds was a great and fairly liked player early in his career but I don't hear anyone talking about that these days.

"I look at Bobby Fischer the way you might look at Barry Bonds."

-one of my chess-loving coworkers, when I said I wasn't sure if I should express my condolences (or any other emotion) on Fischer's passing

[Martin Hyde]

With a lot of mental illnesses where people are paranoid, they tend to be extremely suspicious of what they view as the "power structure."

For example a great many paranoid schizophrenics fear the CIA is always watching/listening in on them. I think we had a thread once wondering what the mentally ill were afraid of before the CIA. Well, it was the power structures in that place/time, be it the Catholic Church, the royal families et cetera.

Mentally ill-type paranoia lends people to buy into conspiracies way more often than usual, too. Jews are often portrayed as secretive, power-broker who operate in the shadows and secretly run the world by many anti-Semites, to an ill mind that's the sort of fodder it is easy to buy into when you already believe the entire world is conspiring against you, what is one more conspiracy?

So yeah, I think Bobby Fischer was mentally ill and that is the reason he expressed anti-Semitic feelings.

[Phlosphr]

Originally Posted by Liberal

He was a lunatic, to be sure. But his games were so amazingly beautiful. They were the perfect balance of aggression, finesse, defense, and all the elements. There was a time when he had no peer, and had he stayed with it, that time would have lasted much longer. My personal dealings with him were maddening, but I still consider him to be the last undefeated world chess champion, and I blame the USCF for his disappearance and subsequent descent into madness.

I was sort of waiting for you to post in this thread. May I ask about this:

My personal dealings with him were maddening, but I still consider him to be the last undefeated world chess champion,

Underlining obvious - personal dealings? Have you....you know...played him? I knew you were ranked/maybe still are....but can you elaborate on your dealings with Fischer? I know your IM and EMAIL are diabled...but I'd be all ears.

[Starving Artist]

Originally Posted by Phlosphr

...but I'd be all ears.

As would I.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by wolf_meister

Fischer's sad life may be vaguely analogous to that of Paul Morphy the only other United States chess giant.

Morphy is the subject of my favorite chess story of all time. This was before time limits on games.

Morphy and his opponent sat across from each other, neither speaking, for eight solid hours. At the end of it, Morphy blinked, looked up, and said, "Oh - is it my move?"

Regards,
Shodan

[Sal Ammoniac]

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

I don't know if that's true...I think people just focus on the ones who had unhappy lives.

What about my homeboy Harry Pillsbury? He'd have been the best in the world if he hadn't gotten syphilis and died at 34.

[Starving Artist]

That's what happens when you're homeboys are dawgs.

And Shodan:

[Miller]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

Do you feel the same way about, say, Mel Gibson?

I dunno. How good is Mel Gibson at chess?

But, in seriousness, yes, I do. Judge the art, not the artist. Whatever his personal failings, Bobby Fischer was a giant in the field of chess, and now that he's gone, he's never again going to contribute to the game, and that's a terrible loss. The world has plenty of assholes, the loss of one more doesn't change things much, one way or the other. But there are damned few people throughout history who could play chess the way Fischer did, and it's sad that there's one fewer today.

[Starving Artist]

Originally Posted by Miller

...and it's sad that there's one fewer today.

I agree it's sad, but for a somewhat different reason. I just think it's sad when such an exceptional person goes off the deep end, and I find myself not really holding his comments and views against him as I find it hard to take them seriously, and I find myself now genuinely saddened both at what eventually became of him and that he has now died at such a relatively young age.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Phlosphr

I was sort of waiting for you to post in this thread. May I ask about this:

Underlining obvious - personal dealings? Have you....you know...played him? I knew you were ranked/maybe still are....but can you elaborate on your dealings with Fischer? I know your IM and EMAIL are diabled...but I'd be all ears.

I didn't play him, no. And I was ranked, but at a very minor level. I was my state's Class A champion for one year in the mid 1980s. Class A sounds impressive, but it is below both Expert and Master.

I was, however, an officer in my state's USCF affliate as treasurer, and I was the editor of our state's official chess newsletter. That is to say that, while I did play competitively in tournaments and did win some money, most of my practical participation was political and administrative in nature.

My personal involvement was through Steven Doyle, president of the US Chess Federation at the time, and officers of our and other states convening in Florida nearly a decade after the Karpov fiasco. It was moved by our group that a letter I drafted be mailed to Fischer in care of Claudia Mokarow in Pasadena. The gist of the letter was these main points:

• The USCF would officially and unconditionally apologize to Fischer for failing to support him during his battles with the Soviet chess machine at the time of his scheduled match with Karpov, and would promise unwavering support of him in the future.
  
• The USCF would offer Fischer a permanent and generous stipend to do anything in any official capacity that he pleased, whether it was playing simuls, touring, or tutoring grandmasters.
  
• The USCF would offer Fischer generous life insurance and health insurance coverage for the rest of his natural life.
  
• The USCF would officially recognize Fischer as holding the title of Undefeated World Chess Champion, and his status as such would be used to fight for his right to play as a bye in the next world championship qualifying rounds.

It seemed like forever before we got a response, and when we did, it was a postcard from Claudia, saying that Fischer wanted $10,000 to open the letter. When Stephen Doyle heard about this, he hit the roof, and declared in a rage that he would not shove that kind of money into a hole just to see what would happen.

And thus were broken the ties forever between the USCF and its greatest player, all because of the myopic engorged ego of a man whose incompetent administration of the USCF almost brought it to its knees. It was a very sad day for us, and Doyle refused to hear our pleas for reconsideration.

Just think. All it would have taken was a measly ten grand — less than Doyle would have spent on the US Open Championship — to have a shot at bringing back the greatest player in US history. By the time competent leadership took over, it was too late, and Fischer was too fargone and too mistrusting for anyone in the USCF ever to reach out to him again.

I stopped playing and participating shortly thereafter. My heart wasn't in it anymore. I was on course to make Expert (about 20 points shy), but I just said fuck it instead. It was a terrible time for US chess.

[Starving Artist]

Thanks for the...ahem...elucidation, Lib.

[Phlosphr]

Thanks, Lib - very nicely put. I have vague memories of that time, I was in Highschool in the mid-80's and was a voracious family chess player. I kept a small eye on what was going on in the USCF but nothing really substancial, I'd read the occasional news article in school...but that background you give is interesting and to be honest adds a bit of mystery to the game and the man. What if...

[BarnOwl]

...up there in Iceland or elsewhere? Which game(s) did you find most appealing?

If you watched on TV like most of us, what did you think of the analysis?