The masturbatory "we're smart" threads

[zuma]

I'm not sure I buy it. Even if it's true, I find it rather arrogant and narcissistic.

I'm just average, I guess... I never was in any special programs, I never "tested out" and have no idea what that even means. I had average to good grades, an average to good degree, and an average tp good job.

I'm also cursed with not having whatever disease of the day we all seem to have, ADD (I was just a hyper kid), aspergers (I had troubles relating once in a while), chronic fatigue (I get tired.. I deal).

But this whole "we're the smartest people on the entire internets" comes up again and again. I don't know if it is true, but good god, the arrogance of this attitude is getting tiresome. Even if I were the smartest person in the world, doing quadratic equations in kindergarten, I'd have the good sense not to crow about it on the internet 30 years later.

I find this arrogant attitude by a few of the members here rather off-putting and wince-inducing. Frankly, I think most of us aren't all that smarter than fark or whatever (hell, fark is far more wittier).

I don't know if I'm dumb, average, or genius.. I'd like to think I'm genius, but it's frankly something I never think about or would ever build a case and brag about. I think a certain subset of us need to get over ourselves.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

I agree.

I'm pretty smart.

But it's never made me happy, nor has it made me a better person. To the contrary, I've used my ability to score high on tests to denigrate others and prop up my own rickety self-esteem, in the past.

Fortunately, I'm mostly over that.

I recognize a lot of folks in this world as being better persons than I am. Kinder, more patient, more willing to give of themselves. Most of these folks are also not 'smarter' than I am, in the test-taking sense.

I try to be more like them.

[Speaker for the Dead]

I was thinking the same thing when I looked at a few threads over the last few weeks. I've found over the past year or so that there are much better things for me to base my self-esteem on than my questionable intelligence.

[monstro]

I was going to start a companion thread to this thread: Who's average and not afraid to admit it?

Intelligence is a weird thing. We've been told that it's arrogant and conceited to talk about our gifts, and for the most part, we don't. Few Dopers brag about their good looks or athleticism or their musical abilities. You don't ever hear the jocks reminiscing about the time they won the winning point at the big game. But for some reason, cognitive giftedness is treated a bit differently around here.

I guess whether or not you're sensitive to it depends on your own experiences. What sounds like chest-thumping to someone sounds like a neutral discussion to someone else.

[Cisco]

I haven't been around here for awhile and can't think of any specific examples of what you're talking about, but generally it does sound annoying.

One thing that's always rubbed me the wrong way on the dope and IRL is people bragging about how early they (or their kids) did something, especially talking or reading. I often hear people claim to have been reading whole adult books at age 2 or 3, and I once had someone tell me their kid was talking conversationally in complete sentences at 10 months!

My neice will be 3 next month and she can't do that. I think she's pretty average.

[zuma]

I've never even considered whether or not I am smart or dumb. I'm not working at mcdonalds so I guess I'm not dumb, and I'm not a ceo so I guess I'm not smart. It's something honestly I've never even thought about, and it's weird to see so many people going on about it. I have a college degree but you can be a retard to get that.. I consider it an accomplishment but not anything special.

The whole crowing about intelligence is just something strange here. I'd never even think to take the time to take an IQ test or compare test scores or whatever to measure my special ass against others. That's just me though. Maybe I'm the smartest person in the world, maybe not, but I'd never be dumb enough to brag about it.

[ZipperJJ]

Cisco, I think the OP was reacting to this thread.

I agree that it's pretty gauche to talk about how smart you are, especially compared to other people, but I'm smrt enough just to ignore those threads. Some people like to talk about stuff like that.

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by ZipperJJ

Cisco, I think the OP was reacting to this thread.

I agree that it's pretty gauche to talk about how smart you are, especially compared to other people, but I'm smrt enough just to ignore those threads. Some people like to talk about stuff like that.

Ah, I see. Thanks. No comment, really. I was in "gifted"* classes my whole life but I don't think anyone I've met in the last 10 years knows that about me, except maybe my wife. I don't think about it much.

*I don't think I was gifted with anything except maybe curiosity, and I often question if that was indeed a gift.

[NightRabbit]

That's my OP, and anyone who takes it as an "I'm better than everyone else around me" thread is oversensitive to begin with. No one's claiming they're a genius or stroking their own egos, if you see it that way, you're reading way too much into it.

[Scarlett67]

On paper I am highly intelligent: early reader, skipped a grade, ex-Mensa, blah blah blah. But I don't use it the way I could. I feel downright dumb next to a lot of people. Mr. S sometimes talks about how he's "dumb" next to me, because he didn't go to college, was never tested as a prodigy, etc. But he has an excellent memory, reads voraciously, and can discuss almost anything intelligently. Many people think he's college educated. I wish my brain worked more like his.

My friend's son is extremely gifted and he knows it; he also has some of the social awkwardness that goes with extremely high IQ. Once during a car ride he was talking about his intelligence, insinuating that it makes him better than other people because he's so smart. I tried explaining to him that everyone has something to offer the world, but he didn't get it. He was quite young then; let's hope he's growing out of that attitude and will eventually discover that everyone can learn something from someone else. If not, it certainly won't help him in life.

[j666]

Originally Posted by monstro

But for some reason, cognitive giftedness is treated a bit differently around here.

Yeah, people think it's a good thing.

Out in the real world, even professional adults mistrust and dislike 'smart' people, just like the popular kids in high school did.

All our lives we were called names, made fun of, and occasionally assaulted* for being better than others in something (do you often see people, even kids, doing that to people who sing, dance, or play football better than others?). Most of us have learned to underplay or apologize for our gifts, or have gravitated toward 'nerd' professions.

So here, with our own, we relax and admit just how nice (and good, and fun) it is to be smart.



*Or maybe people really don't like me ...

[zuma]

Originally Posted by NightRabbit

That's my OP, and anyone who takes it as an "I'm better than everyone else around me" thread is oversensitive to begin with. No one's claiming they're a genius or stroking their own egos, if you see it that way, you're reading way too much into it.

I'm not over-sensitive, I just find it arrogant.. it's just something that I think many of us never even think about. It'd be interesting to take an IQ test against you (that'd fulfill the competitive streak in me), but I don't really care. I just find it weird that so many people do care and take the time to talk about their supposed intelligence.

[Speaker for the Dead]

Originally Posted by NightRabbit

That's my OP, and anyone who takes it as an "I'm better than everyone else around me" thread is oversensitive to begin with. No one's claiming they're a genius or stroking their own egos, if you see it that way, you're reading way too much into it.

Reading too much into it? How is "When did you gain a conception of yourself as smart, or smarter than the masses of children around you?" not supposed to sound painfully elitist?

[Shagnasty]

I don't participate directly in such threads.

However, I find IQ threads and others quite entertaining. They tend to drift to the right of the Bell Curve starting the first page. "Mine was 120". Ok, that is smart but that is about the average for university professors. "I scored a 130". Possible but that is pretty high. "I scored a 142". That is within shouting distance of possible. You were most likely the smartest person in your town. "I scored a 153". Now you are claiming that you are not only the smartest person ever in your high school but also your town and probably your county. "I scored a 165". Now we have someone who is most likely one of the smartest people in the state - ever. "I scored a 173". Now we are dealing with one of the highest scores recorded in the history of the world. "I scored a 185". Well call in INS because we have an alien on our hands.

The irony is that people that claim these things have zero understanding of bell curves and statistics. Casually tacking on 15 points to inflate your score causes a jump of an entire standard deviation and tacking on 30 points or so brings us into super-liars and dumbass land.

There are a few other subjects that bring on the same things. Penis length is one but, oddly, the coldest weather you have ever been in is another. The coldest weather thread induced people to claim they had been in weather for an extended amount of time that was much colder than the lowest temperature ever recorded for that state.

I am sure that there are a few more but we have conclusive evidence that many dopers Lie - Lie - Lie.

[Lucky 13]

I didn't post to the "smart kids" thread, but I feel the need to respond here.

Yeah, I'm as guilty of bragging about my intelligence here as the next Doper. But I guess the reason I do this is because book smarts is about all I've got, and not even that much -- I suck at math. I'm not that physically attractive and never have been (let's be honest here, I'm a 3 at best on a scale of 1 to 10), I have no money and pathetic social skills, I'm obese and unathletic, I live with my parents 'cause I couldn't make my marriage succeed, and I can't even drive a fucking car. So please allow me to cling to what is pretty much the only thing I have going for me. Thank you.

(goes off to play the world's smallest violin for self)

[Speaker for the Dead]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

I am sure that there are a few more but we have conclusive evidence that many dopers Lie - Lie - Lie.

That said, I still have proof that I regularly score 50 on www.freerice.com.

[Cisco]

It may be all some people have. I enjoy a variety of mental and physical pursuits, arts and entertainment, interpersonal relationships, etc. Some people may only be really good at math, or at taking IQ tests, or at getting straight A's. I can see why they'd want to get together and talk about it. It's like the guys gathering at the bar to talk about football.

[MsWhatsit]

Originally Posted by zuma

I'm also cursed with not having whatever disease of the day we all seem to have, ADD (I was just a hyper kid), aspergers (I had troubles relating once in a while), chronic fatigue (I get tired.. I deal).

If you were just a hyper kid, had occasional troubles relating, and get tired sometimes, you are correct: You don't have ADD, Aspergers, or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Do you want congratulations, or a cookie, or something?

Possibly the only thing more tiresome than people bragging (whether it is about intelligence, money, or good looks - and FTR I don't think NightRabbit's OP was particularly arrogant or bragging) is people smugly saying that because they "get tired sometimes" and deal with it just fine, then people who have an actual diagnosable syndrome should do so as well. Because as we all know, most medical conditions can easily be cured or overcome by just shrugging it off and deciding not to be sick.

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

However, I find IQ threads and others quite entertaining. They tend to drift to the right of the Bell Curve starting the first page. "Mine was 120". Ok, that is smart but that is about the average for university professors. "I scored a 130". Possible but that is pretty high. "I scored a 142". That is within shouting distance of possible. You were most likely the smartest person in your town. "I scored a 153". Now you are claiming that you are not only the smartest person ever in your high school but also your town and probably your county. "I scored a 165". Now we have someone who is most likely one of the smartest people in the state - ever. "I scored a 173". Now we are dealing with one of the highest scores recorded in the history of the world. "I scored a 185". Well call in INS because we have an alien on our hands.

Hah! I admit I don't know much about IQ test results - is this true or are you just throwing numbers out to make a point?

One possible explanation:

The only IQ test I ever recall taking in which I got the results back was a couple years ago on the internet. It was iqtest.com or something similar - not sure about the exact url - but it was ad-based and tried to sell you a "complete IQ profile" or somesuch at the end. I got a 173. I didn't believe it for a second and still don't. I think they inflate your score to make you think you're a genius and didn't know, and you have to buy their complete profile. I'm sure it was the most popular internet IQ test, at least at the time, and that could be where the big numbers came from in dopers' results. Or maybe they just lie - lie - lie!

[Lobohan]

I think being smart is like have a huge penis. It just makes you think you're better than everyone else.

Thank goodness the two traits never manifest in the same person.

[abbeytxs]

[quote=monstro]I was going to start a companion thread to this thread: Who's average and not afraid to admit it?

Let me be the first to say "I am completely and totally average and I'm ok with it!"

I am the pinnacle of average! I am average height. I am average weight. I have average looks. I am of average intelligence. I have an average degree from an average university. I have an average job. I live in an average house in an average neighborhood. I have an average number of kids. I play an average number of sports, you guessed it, averagely.

However, when you look at that bell curve, you will notice that my average ass is sitting right up there at the zenith of the curve! Not to mention that everyone measures themselves against me!! That's right folks, all of you amazingly brilliant people would be just another pretty face without me to measure yourselves against!

Really, its all in the spin.

[descamisado]

Originally Posted by Cisco

It may be all some people have. I enjoy a variety of mental and physical pursuits, arts and entertainment, interpersonal relationships, etc. Some people may only be really good at math, or at taking IQ tests, or at getting straight A's. I can see why they'd want to get together and talk about it. It's like the guys gathering at the bar to talk about football.

But being good at or interested in football and getting together with others to talk about your affinity for football is different from falling into a supposedly more-intelligent-than-average group and getting together to talk about that intelligence (as opposed discussions about IQ tests in general), rather than talk about the interesting topics which that intelligence can lead you to become interested in, learn about or accomplish something with regards to that interest.

And this is coming from someone whose higher intelligence was all he had, until he learned different and now has nothing to live for.

[hawksgirl]

Originally Posted by j666

Out in the real world, even professional adults mistrust and dislike 'smart' people, just like the popular kids in high school did.

Oh come on. I have never seen this EVER. Not now, not in high school. Sometimes I think people around here have a severe martyr complex. I'm not saying it can't happen, but... really? I swear, most of the time when I hear about Dopers getting beat up at school every day and having absolutely no friends because they were good at math, I have to assume its because they were being insufferably arrogant pricks, not because "cool kids hate smart kids".

not directed at anyone in particular, YMMV, etc.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Cisco

Hah! I admit I don't know much about IQ test results - is this true or are you just throwing numbers out to make a point?!

No, my numbers were real if not barely arbitrary. I do have an understanding of psychometrics and normal curves. A good rule of thumb is that someone who claims to have an IQ of 145 or above is almost certainly lying (but barely possible) and someone that claims to have an IQ of 160 or above is definitely lying. The tests can't measure that high reliably and tacking on a few bonus points for yourself at the high end has an effect that the people that claim these things can't understand ironically enough. A claimed score of 130 is starting to strain the truth without further evidence of intelligence.

[Bryan Ekers]

I'm smart enough to recognize that this thread has become just as masturbatory as the ones the OP is complaining about.

[Barry From Eastenders]

What I hate is when so called smart people become Self Appointed Experts On Everything. You can't have a discussion with them. If you disagree with them in the least, they spend the whole conversation trying to prove how stupid you are, even if it's a simply matter of personal preference.

[Wile E]

Well, I read the referenced thread to be more of "when did you realize you were different and/or a nerd?". I freely admit to being a nerd, I deny being or thinking of myself as a genius, despite my moniker.

Anyway, those kinds of threads are no different than the mastabatory "I'm better than all the people who post in that kind of thread about how special they are but I want people to notice me and how special I am for not posting in that thread so I'll make a pit thread to complain about those people" thread.

[j666]

Originally Posted by Speaker for the Dead

Reading too much into it? How is "When did you gain a conception of yourself as smart, or smarter than the masses of children around you?" not supposed to sound painfully elitist?

What's 'elitist' about it?

Sure, I'm smarter than most of the people I know.

I'm also overweight, my singing scares small children and strong men, and my office always looks like a tornado hit it (I don't even want think about the state of my car).

Smart is nice; I like being smart. I'd probably like being tiny, tuneful, and tidy, too, but that is not my lot in life. Eh. Pity, because those qualities are valued in my society.

I don't talk about being smart because, well, how far can that conversation go?
"I'm smart." "So am I." "Cool."
Kind of a dead-end unless you want to discuss how dimensional analysis underpines all basic scientific inquiry.

But frankly I'd rather discuss my brains than someone else's diet.
[I'm always up for house-keeping tips, though.]

[brazil84]

Self Appointed Experts On Everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU

[HazelNutCoffee]

Originally Posted by hawksgirl

Oh come on. I have never seen this EVER. Not now, not in high school. Sometimes I think people around here have a severe martyr complex. I'm not saying it can't happen, but... really? I swear, most of the time when I hear about Dopers getting beat up at school every day and having absolutely no friends because they were good at math, I have to assume its because they were being insufferably arrogant pricks, not because "cool kids hate smart kids".

not directed at anyone in particular, YMMV, etc.

Sometimes people do irrationally pick on other people. In high school (in Korea) a lot of people resented the fact that I'd lived abroad. This was despite the fact I never mentioned it, brought it up, or otherwise tried to call attention to it. It wasn't something I could do anything about, yet there were students who disliked me for it. And as an angsty teenager it affected me a lot more than it should have.

But as an adult, I have yet to be actively disliked because I am "smart." I will run into the occasional person who will be snarky when they find out I went to grad school and/or teach college English, but the snark is mild and such people are few and far between.

(And as a kid in the US I did get picked on for being a nerd, but I probably did deserve some of it, as I was an insufferable stuck-up know-it-all.)

[monstro]

Originally Posted by j666

Yeah, people think it's a good thing.

Out in the real world, even professional adults mistrust and dislike 'smart' people, just like the popular kids in high school did.

I think people mistrust and dislike smart people who talk about being smart. Just like people don't like the jocks who constantly talk about their superior physicality and they don't like the people who constantly talk about their good looks.

Being smart is good, but so are a myriad of other traits. Imagine a thread entitled: When did you realize, vis-a-vis other kids, that you were good-looking? Do you think it would go over well? Don't you think there'd be a negative reaction?

People often talk about the anti-intellectualism that faces smart children, but from my experience, the bullying went both ways. I was teased by smart kids for not measuring up to their level--despite my superior grades and demonstrated intelligence. My crime was competing against them without being blessed with a "gifted" label. They were special and I wasn't.

All our lives we were called names, made fun of, and occasionally assaulted* for being better than others in something (do you often see people, even kids, doing that to people who sing, dance, or play football better than others?). Most of us have learned to underplay or apologize for our gifts, or have gravitated toward 'nerd' professions.

Cry me a river. I was called nerd, dork, and geek growing up, and you know what? Those names didn't sting nearly as much as when kids called me retarded. I don't remember the names of the kids who ridiculed me for being smart, but I do remember the one guy who brought me to tears because he kept calling me retarded while doing a cruel imitation of a spastic person. I'm sure he's still talking about how smart he is and how stupid his classmates were.

Just look at the board. Dopers don't hesitate insulting others because of their lack of intelligence (moron, tard, retard, etc.). When is the last time a Doper has been ridiculed for being too smart? They might get taken down a peg for being arrogant, but smart? Ha!

There IS rampant anti-intellectualism, true. But don't get it confused with anti-obnoxiousness.

[Blue Mood]

Relating stories of the first realisation that you're not the same as others is not the same as placing a value on that difference. In fact, many posters in that thread went out of their way to point out that while the difference is there, it is not really helping them in their careers, etc. Why is it unacceptable to discuss these particular experiences?

Shagnasty

A good rule of thumb is that someone who claims to have an IQ of 145 or above is almost certainly lying (but barely possible) and someone that claims to have an IQ of 160 or above is definitely lying. ... A claimed score of 130 is starting to strain the truth without further evidence of intelligence.

When you ask the person for their IQ, do you also ask which particular instrument was used? Otherwise how would you know where the cutoff for lying was? I'm sure you realise that the major ones have differing standard deviations.

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by monstro

Few Dopers brag about their good looks or athleticism or their musical abilities. You don't ever hear the jocks reminiscing about the time they won the winning point at the big game. But for some reason, cognitive giftedness is treated a bit differently around here.

The Dope is somewhat hostile towards jocks. Just do a search for PE and see how many threads complain about them.

Marc

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by j666

All our lives we were called names, made fun of, and occasionally assaulted* for being better than others in something (do you often see people, even kids, doing that to people who sing, dance, or play football better than others?). Most of us have learned to underplay or apologize for our gifts, or have gravitated toward 'nerd' professions.

I doubt it was because you were smart. I recall people in my classes who made very high marks and nobody teased them about it. Likewise there were some students who were barely passing that got made fun of somewhat frequently. I think the dynamics of school bullying and popularity is a bit more complicated than jumping on the smart kids.

Marc

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by zuma

I'm not sure I buy it. Even if it's true, I find it rather arrogant and narcissistic.

Welcome to the SDMB. It's the most irritating feature of the board, by far.

If you're smart, you should be able to demonstrate it, and shouldn't have to keep telling me about it.

[gfloyd]

I hate smart people that feel the need to let everyone know how smart they are, constantly. I'm smart, but I assume that people, if they care, will notice it on their own. And if they don't, I generally don't care. I used to do this program at MIT for high school kids and there was so much fucking competitiveness about how high the little brats IQs were. I stayed out of it. They claimed to be in the 185 to 215 range. I knew they were lying, trying out do the others. That's left a sour taste in my mouth until this day.

My IQ was tested by a doctor (don't remember if it was a psychologist or a psychiatrist). Not because my parents wanted to parade me around as their gifted daughter, but because my teachers thought that I was mentally retarded. I was eight and could not read at all. The number was high, at the upper end of what I consider to be a believable number. I base this judgment on other people that have similar scores to mine and I think are equivalently intelligent. Anyone I've met who quotes scores more than 15 points over mine seems to be a windbag.

Being smart really never got me much. All the other kids disliked me in school. I feel this pressure to achieve, that I'm wasting my potential if I'm not perfect. There are days I wish I could be less smart. And there are days when I'm hitting my head against a wall at work, wishing I could understand.

[brazil84]

http://www.break.com/index/spelling-...n-on-cnn3.html

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

No, my numbers were real if not barely arbitrary. I do have an understanding of psychometrics and normal curves. A good rule of thumb is that someone who claims to have an IQ of 145 or above is almost certainly lying (but barely possible) and someone that claims to have an IQ of 160 or above is definitely lying. The tests can't measure that high reliably and tacking on a few bonus points for yourself at the high end has an effect that the people that claim these things can't understand ironically enough. A claimed score of 130 is starting to strain the truth without further evidence of intelligence.

Very interesting. I don't think I can recall ever hearing someone claim an IQ below 150. Are there any credible free IQ tests?

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Blue Mood

Shagnasty
When you ask the person for their IQ, do you also ask which particular instrument was used? Otherwise how would you know where the cutoff for lying was? I'm sure you realise that the major ones have differing standard deviations.

The only real clinical instruments have a standard deviation of 15 or 16 with 15 being overwelmingly the most common. In any case, it doesn't matter for these purposes.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Cisco

Very interesting. I don't think I can recall ever hearing someone claim an IQ below 150. Are there any credible free IQ tests?

This is getting into some serious controversial issues. Lots of tests can approximate IQ scores as determined by clinical tests like the Stanford-Binet or Wechsler. There are charts that can convert approximate IQ scores from such tests as the SAT and ACT into an established IQ score. They tend to correlate well so if you have the score from either of those, you can just translate them. This concept is known as the G factor of intelligence which means that all scores on roughly similar tests will end up with approximately the same result.

[brazil84]

I just checked a normal distribution table. Assuming a standard deviation of 15, an IQ of 130 would put one -- roughly -- in the top 2%. So perhaps an IQ of 130 means that you were one of the smartest people in your high school class.

I would guess that there are plenty of people on this board with IQs in the 130 range.

An IQ of 145 puts you at roughly 1 in 750 Obviously a lot rarer, but I would think that there are probably at least a few posters here who test in that range.

An IQ of 160 puts you at about 1 in 30,000. Probably the proportion of the population that feels the need to exaggerate their IQ is a lot more than 1 in 30,000. So if somebody claims an IQ of 160, there's a good chance they are BSing.

Nevertheless, I would say there's a plausible chance that 1 or 2 posters here have IQ's at that level.

[Jackmannii]

Of course, superior intelligence is not everything. Take me - reading at 18 months, completing and quoting from the collected works of Shakespeare and Tolstoy by 4, through high school and college by age 12, retiring a multimillionaire with the proceeds of my inventions, women fawning all over my intellectual accomplishments and anatomical virtuousity. But has it made me a better person? Naaah. I've decided I'll be happier being average.

Originally Posted by zuma

I'm just average, I guess...

Hah! I'm much more average than you.

[Beware of Doug]

Be careful Jackmannii. The world's longest dick must be awfully easy to step on.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by brazil84

I just checked a normal distribution table. Assuming a standard deviation of 15, an IQ of 130 would put one -- roughly -- in the top 2%. So perhaps an IQ of 130 means that you were one of the smartest people in your high school class.

I would guess that there are plenty of people on this board with IQs in the 130 range.

An IQ of 145 puts you at roughly 1 in 750 Obviously a lot rarer, but I would think that there are probably at least a few posters here who test in that range.

An IQ of 160 puts you at about 1 in 30,000. Probably the proportion of the population that feels the need to exaggerate their IQ is a lot more than 1 in 30,000. So if somebody claims an IQ of 160, there's a good chance they are BSing.

Nevertheless, I would say there's a plausible chance that 1 or 2 posters here have IQ's at that level.

Your statistics skills are very good and basically what I was getting at. However, IQ tests don't do well when you move towards the 160+ range. They simply can't measure it reliably so people that claim scores like that are BS'ing. We have had people here over the years that claimed 180+ IQ scores which means we need to switch that around and assume they meant a negative 5.3 standard deviation which is way off the chart and the equivalent of a dead sea slug.

[ultrafilter]

I've found that people will expect me to be impressed by their IQ or scores on any other test exactly when they don't have anything else to impress me with. That said, the recent IMHO thread that undoubtedly inspired this one really didn't strike me as a dick-waving contest. Rather, it was just a bunch of people sharing stories about a particular kind of experience they have in common. We've all at some point realized that we're somehow different from most of the people around us, and some of us are different in significant ways. Is it so bad to share the stories?

A couple comments on the IQ test discussion: While it is extremely unlikely that any given individual has an IQ greater than 160, the probability that everyone living right now has an IQ under 160 is so small as to be effectively 0. Assuming that IQs are normally distributed with mean 100 and standard deviation 15, a population of 6,000,000,000 should have about 200,000 people with an IQ above 160.

Also, if you have a bunch of people claiming that they have genius-level IQs, it's reasonable to conclude that they're not all telling the truth. It is not reasonable (based on those claims alone) to conclude that they're all lying, or that any particular one of them is lying. Any extra information you have about the individuals in question may influence your degree of belief in their claims.

[Tamerlane]

Originally Posted by MGibson

I doubt it was because you were smart. I recall people in my classes who made very high marks and nobody teased them about it. Likewise there were some students who were barely passing that got made fun of somewhat frequently. I think the dynamics of school bullying and popularity is a bit more complicated than jumping on the smart kids.

I'd have to agree. I don't remember much of a bias against "smart" in high school and only a very mild one against the nerdier eggheads. The most consistently harassed were the gawky social misfits, which in my school tended to be low functioning at everything, including academia. Which wasn't a good thing, but certainly wasn't mediated by hatred of smarts.

Granted I didn't go to one of those small-town schools that lives, breathes and shits the local sports scene.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Jackmannii

Of course, superior intelligence is not everything. Take me - reading at 18 months, completing and quoting from the collected works of Shakespeare and Tolstoy by 4, through high school and college by age 12, retiring a multimillionaire with the proceeds of my inventions, women fawning all over my intellectual accomplishments and anatomical virtuousity. But has it made me a better person? Naaah. I've decided I'll be happier being average.Hah! I'm much more average than you.

I have always wanted to be average. I cut 5 inches off of my penis with garden shears. I still didn't feel like average. I got a friend to run over my head with a truck in -100F weather. I had my IQ tested afterwards and it was still 130 so I stuck two sticks of dynamite up my nose and lit them. The explosion stung but afterwards my IQ tested out at 105 which was good enough.

Even with an exploded nose, I still felt that I was too attractive to fit in with average people. I cut off my ears and scorched my scalp with a blow torch to create scar tissue where the hair would not grow. I hired a surgeon to give me a hair lip.

I choose to think all of that moved me towards the average. I always found it easy to run a marathon in less than 2 hours and that certainly wasn't average. I gorged myself and put on 200 pounds then I took a boxcutter and sliced some key muscles in my legs. I also took up smoking Camel filterless cigarettes. For the next Boston Marathon, I came in at 3:35 which was definitely in the right direction but still well above average. I am working on a way to damage my knees now. I just bought a dilapidated ranch house and kicked out my wife for an uglier one. I learned that it isn't easy being average but I am sure the results are worth it.

[Tamerlane]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

This is getting into some serious controversial issues. Lots of tests can approximate IQ scores as determined by clinical tests like the Stanford-Binet or Wechsler. There are charts that can convert approximate IQ scores from such tests as the SAT and ACT into an established IQ score. They tend to correlate well so if you have the score from either of those, you can just translate them. This concept is known as the G factor of intelligence which means that all scores on roughly similar tests will end up with approximately the same result.

I just tried that with this converter: http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/psychol...onversion.html

I am bit sceptical that my unspectacular combined SAT score ( ~1984 ) of 1200 actually equals the 127 that thing spits out.

[Cisco]

[Zapp Brannigan]

What makes a good man go average? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of averageness?

[eleanorigby]

Does anyone take into account the 7 or so "types" of intelligence posited by Howard Gardner?

I am book smart and language smart, but not so great in the math-logistical intelligence or spatial intelligence etc. I am more skilled at intrapersonal and body-kinesthetic intelligences than some people, less than others etc.


I think he's on to something. IQ tests don't measure all of the different kinds of skills people demonstrate. I could no more solve a story problem than walk on my hands, but does not mean I am less intelligent than someone who can.

As for the linked thread, I stumbled upon my "smarts" in junior year of high school when I tutored Regular and Essential level students in creative writing. It had never occurred to me that someone could get to HS and not know how to write a paragraph or a complete sentence. I was so busy beating myself up for my lack of math skills, I never noticed that I excelled at English and writing. Go figure.

That said, there is an intellectual arrogance pervasive at the Dope. It's easy to sneer at folks from behind a computer screen. I've done it myself.

And THAT said, it is true that if you excel in sports it's more "ok" to brag about it than your SAT scores etc. Same with music and art. Not that bragging is all that much smiled upon, no matter the peer group. There was never an assembly at school, during school hours, that celebrated the Mathletes or the Chess club or the perfect ISAT scores, though. Not recognizing this is a long way from persecution of this demographic. All I can remember about HS is the burn-outs (so called because they smoked cigarettes and actively tried to make trouble and bad grades) beating up each other.