How dare you tell me to Fuck Off

The BBQ Pit
1

My ex husband, the father of our children, told me to fuck off because I called and asked him if he was going to send me some child support this month.

Evidently they are talking his entire tax refund for back child support. The state initiates the tax offset program in Ohio for anyone that owes $500 or more in back support. I have no control over that but even if I did I would have requested they do it.

So know he feels that since they are taking that money that he should not have to pay any support this month.

WTF? You are a complete asshole. What part of “back support” do you not understand? That money is the money you were ordered to pay. You have fallen behind since you got off unemployment in November. You have only made two payments since then. One in February and one in March and both were $200 less than the ordered monthly amount.

The first time I contacted you about sending me something in February your response was “Oh yeah thanks for reminding me” Reminding you? Reminding you that you have a daughter? Reminding you that you are suppose to pay support for her? So you sent in $100. I did not bitch. It was more than I was even expecting. I knew you were struggling after losing your job and that you are working part time. I was just happy to get something. I told you that you can contact child support and get the payments lowered but hey you can’t do that since the money you are making working part time is not being reported.

Then came March. I again had to contact you. You again sent in $100 and even then it was two weeks later than you said you were going to send it in.

So now it is almost the end of April and I call again. You have no idea how much I hate even contacting you but things are tight here too and you know your kid needs to eat.

You then inform me that you got a letter that your entire refund is being snatched away for back support. Well that is all nice and good and I am happy but that does not mean you don’t have to pay for his month.

I ask if you are going to send in a payment this month and that is when you scream at me to Fuck Off and hang up on me.

No Dickface YOU FUCK OFF!

I have not received that money yet and according to what I have read it can be six weeks or longer before I get it and then only if you do not owe the state. If you do then I may not see any of it.

I have had it with you. I am done being nice. I have tried to keep things civil for the last 17 fucking years. I have put up with your lost jobs, your 5 DUIs and the lack of support and visitation because of them, your lack of parenting, me calling for medical insurance payments again and again. I put up with child services being called on you but them hounding me. I have had to call you out several times on your shitty critical attitude towards our son and you wonder why now at 19 he hardly ever speaks to you. You did not even come to his 18th birthday because you said you had clean your house. Clean your fucking house?

I can list more. In fact I could spend all morning and probably most of the afternoon listing all the shit I have had to put up with.

I am done. I am not going to contact you again sans some critical emergency. Let the state chase your ass and let them take every single tax refund they can, which of course won’t mean dick next year since you are not reporting your income.

Our daughter turns eighteen October 21. 175 more days I do not have to ever speak with you again. You have no idea how fucking happy I will be.

2

Could you get one of those page-a-day calendars, so that every day, you pull off a page, set fire to it, and then dance around the ashes?

I’ve always found that to be comforting.

3

Child support? What is zees child support you people speak of? I didn’t get a plug nickel from my ex.

Good on you for going after him. All I can say is they reap what they sow. Your children probably know what’s going on at their age. When he wonders why he never sees them when he’s old and gray, he can think back on what an example he set for them when they were little.

4

Why didn’t you do this from the start? That’s what the agency is there for, is it not? You could just report to the agency that he is working under the table than calling him. Then again, if he can get a job that pays a living wage and his child support with that criminal record, it’d probably be a fucking miracle.

5

Getting a child support order enforced is really not that easy, unless you’re prepared to pay your own attorney.

6

Much easier said than done. My caseload is entirely non-paying people and well over half are “self-employed”/under the table wage earners. No state, especially with the funding cuts from the Feds, are able to do a heck of a lot right now.

In most states non-payment of child support is not a criminal matter, but a civil matter. Once a person has been found guilty in civil court we can move it to criminal court but those cases are far and few between. The criminal cases are the ones you see with TV/sports/music stars purposely hiding funds. For the average Jane/John Doe, the case won’t leave civil court.

Here in Minnesota if the child is less than a year away from emancipation we will not pursue contempt unless we have proof of wages/employment and it’s very obvious.

SomeUserName: Your child support office will continue to collect on arrears after your remaining child emancipates, right? Even after emancipation, if arrears still exist, he should still be eligible for tax levies. Also, if he was eligible for the Chimp Rebate being issued now it should also be levied for arrears.

7

I’m familiar with it, and Ohio has many tools at its disposal to enforce support payments. The tax offset is obviously the most effective. The courts will also provide you with forms to file a contempt motion and it’s relatively simple enough that you don’t need an attorney. Most of the time, though, CSEA will take specific actions without the aid or by request of the custodial parent, including automatically deducting support from paychecks, revoking licenses, or pursuing criminal charges.

Of course, aiding CSEA in their enforcement is generally a good way to get the ball rolling and considerably less confrontational. If you want your child support order enforced, then informing the agency of the obligor’s employment situation will assist their investigation and enforcement actions.

Of course, the downside is that the penalties resulting from non-payment, have a depressing effect on the ability to earn money to pay the support, so you may end up with less than you’re getting. The upside is that the arrearage never goes away and, with any luck, the money eventually trickles in.

In so much as calling the obligor to demand payment nets you frustration, you justify it because he owes it and will send you piecemeal payments to get you off his back. Nobody deserves to be harangued over their debts. Even creditors are not allowed to do that. My point is there are legal means of enforcement; use them.

It’s not that I’m not sympathetic to the OP, I just don’t agree with her tactics.

8

So how much are you getting from the tax refund?

9

I’m also aware that each state’s child support enforcement works (or doesn’t work) very differently. I’m familiar with Ohio’s. As for other states, YMMV, right?

10

Did anyone else share a bitter laugh with me when I read this bit?

I find it hugely ironic that he was “able” to pay when he was on unemployment, but now that he is not, no longer does this child get regular support.
I put able in quotes because I’m sure money is tight for all those involved here. If he thinks the amount of support is too high, he needs to go back to court to have it changed. It’s not ok for him to not pay this–despite the OP’s “tactics”. His “tactics” suck, too–and to the detriment of the kid. Why does she have to toe the line and jump through hoops and he gets to float away from his responsibilities? Where is the disparagement of his actions?

11

It’s not a question of ability. The state pays unemployment, and as enforcer of child support, automatically deducts the support from the unemployment checks. He may or may not have been “able” to live off what was left after the state took the support chunk out. It doesn’t really matter from the state’s point of view. They’re taking it if he owes it regardless.

What are his tactics really? Paying rent, buying food, buying a big screen TV? I didn’t see the OP mention what is the actual income he’s earning. I don’t disagree that he has a responsibility to pay, just that she also has a responsibility to work within the system. They both have to toe the line.

12

Yes, I know. I find it ironic as hell. Don’t work and your kid gets benefits. Work and stiff the kid. Seems backward to me. YMMV. (either way, the kid deserves that support, but --oh, never mind. If you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it.)

His tactics are to not pay, or pay less than what was settled on, and to verbally abuse his ex when she asks for what is rightly his daughter’s. How is that not clear from the OP? I was taken aback when you focused on her “tactics” and let his pass. Paying rent and buying food are necessary things, but again, you didn’t address his responsibilities to go back to court to change the support.

Instead you castigated her for not doing it the way you think is best (and may be the best way for her to get redress). IOW, the OP came in here looking of support, sympathy, to vent and perhaps get advice. Instead she’s told by you that she’s doing it wrong and that nothing could be easier than doing X. No, he is doing it wrong–by not doing what he was ordered by the court to do, and the easiest thing to do would be for him to pay it, already.

She may well have better avenues to explore, but IMO, your tone was not one of help and advice, it was one of finger wagging at the OP. I took exception to it, having had a Dad who played games with my child support when I was a kid. Deadbeat dads suck and I hope there’s special place in hell for them all. That said, I realize that there are plenty of horrid ex-wives out there who feed on the amount of misery they can impart to their children’s father. The OP didn’t strike me as one of those–all she wants is what her daughter is entitled to.

13

As irritated as I get at ‘deadbeat’ parents, I must agree with this. Things just work so much better when exes aren’t at each others’ throats.

Kalhoun: neither did I, and my kids are now grown. However, I made a deal - if he stopped harassing and stalking me, I would never ever bitch about the $$. I only had to call him on it once. For me, keeping the peace was worth it. I know, in the eyes of the law I should have reported him.

Interesting aside about “plugged nickel”.

14

I agree, you’ve put up with enough crap from this guy. Let the state chase him and document document document.

15

At the risk of getting totally flamed here, at this point, I would consider being rid of that loser worth more than a couple of hundred dollars a month until October. Yeah, he’s supposed to pay the court mandated child support, but I have a feeling I’d happily eat Kraft Dinner every night with a smile on my face if I never had to talk to someone that worthless again. Your mileage may vary, of course.

16

I don’t understand what you think is supposed to happen. The state can only collect when it can access the income. It can access unemployment benefits and tax refunds. It can’t access income paid under the table, which is precisely why it is illegal to receive unreported income. Providing information that helps the agency either access that income or pursue other avenues of enforcement is much more productive in the long-term AND within her legal rights to do.

What I read is that she called him to harangue him about his non-payment and that she’s offended by him telling her to fuck off. Sounds to me like he’s sick of the harassment. It’s perfectly legal to tell creditors, in so many words, not to contact you by telephone. How is this different? She may very well be entitled to the money he has not paid, but she has perfectly legal and non-confrontational means for seeking payment.

As for him, he is in contempt of the child support order and breaking the law by not reporting his income and employment to the agency. He should be held accountable for his obligations. That’s why CSEA exists in the first place. Is that better?

Go back and read my first post. I didn’t castigate her and I wasn’t rude. I simply posed the question of why she didn’t stick to going through the agency to begin with. If she had, she wouldn’t have been on the phone with him to hear a “fuck you.” It wasn’t nice at all what he said to her, but I’m not shocked or appalled by it. It’s an expected frustrated response by someone who may very well, by the sound of his legal problems, be unable to provide the support he owes, and is being. There are two sides to every story and we’re hearing her side only.

I agree that he’s wrong for non-payment, but it’s not always as easy as you claim it is. If he has no money, what’s he going to pay his support with, Monopoly money? How do you suppose incarcerated individuals pay their support? They don’t. It simply accumulates until they are back out in society and working again. And the moment they get out, the support agencies expect them to come up all that back support post haste and will continue to prosecute and revoke licenses until they do. It’s madness.

Well, if I came off as finger-wagging, I apologize. The child support system is a messy and frustrating experience for many people involved with it, regardless of whether they owe it or receive it. There are no easy solutions. I just choose not demonize “deadbeat dads” because they have difficulties with the system as well and the system is very much set up to dehumanize its participants.

17

It was worth about $65,000 to me. If I added that right.

18

SomeUserName, I sympathize and I truly hope that things work out for you. He was wrong to tell you to fuck off. However,

Besides your daughter turning 18, what will change for you? What fewer expenses will you have then that you have now? When she turns 18, will she stop eating or wearing clothes? Will she drop out of school, move out, and get a job? Or will life pretty much continue on as normal?

You say, in so many words, that you will finally be happy when you no longer are receiving that money. Well, you’re not receiving it now. Why delay your happiness? Stop dealing with the deadbeat now, and be happy now.

According to my calendar, today is October 21st. Tell your daughter happy birthday. :slight_smile:

19

I think I may just do that. I am sure I can find a 2008 calendar on some discount rack.

I am sorry you never got anything. My mother never got any either for my brother and I.

The thing that is sad is they both know how he is and how he has been over the years.

I asked my daughter the other day why she never asks her dad for anything when she needs something or asks for advice.

She told me because I am the one that has always been there and she knows she can not rely on him so she does not even bother asking.

In some ways it makes me feel good that my children know they can depend on me but it also makes me angry and sad that their father is such a worthless piece of crap. They still love him though despite it.

Because child support will not contact him once a month asking where his payment is. They only contact him after he is in the arrears for quite a while. They will do things like take his tax refund but that is a once a year thing and this is the first year they have ever taken it despite him being behind before.

I could report to the agency where he is working but I don’t think that is going to solve anything. It is not like they are going to admit he is working there. I mean it is part time in a comic book store. I don’t see a big future there or any long term employment. The man is 48 years old. You think he could find something a little better.

I am sure the next thing that can happen is they can take his drivers license which amazes me to this day that he even still has one.

Hell his fucking car insurance is lower than mine. My daughter must be listed on my insurance since she lives with me but she has only had her license a little over a year so my premium is sky high and I got the lowest the state will allow. He does not need to have her on his but she is still covered under his insurance he just does not have to pay for it.

Fucking hell I am pissed off all over again.

20

SomeUserName, I apologize if I came off as uncaring or rude by suggesting you stick to working with the agency in seeking the child support owed to you. You certainly don’t deserve or need additional frustration of directly dealing with your ex, especially if he is verbally abusive and uncooperative. My comments should have been specifically that you’re better off coming to the conclusion you did toward the end of your post.

I am empathetic about your situation. It plainly sucks. And you have a right to be angry. Vent away. Once you’re done venting, I hope you continue to advocate for yourself and your child in a productive manner.