So I just bought a new PC

In My Humble Opinion
1

So I’ve been looking at this guide for a value gaming system, have a little money saved up, and decided to go for it. I am going to stuck to the guide for the most part, as it seems like a very nice system for just under a grand (I got a nice widescreen for Christmas, so I don’t need a monitor).

Started browsing Newegg and realized they had everything on the list for decent prices, so here’s what I’m getting in 3-4 days:

Case: Raidmax SMILODON ATX 612WB With a 530W Power Supply This is the only thing I didn’t get from the guide. This case looks great (I’m a big fan of side windows, with all kinds of lovely colored lights inside the case), it got nice customer reviews, and was a good deal.
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L Nice board, and I noticed it also supports Core 2 Quad CPU’s if I want to upgrade later on.
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E7200
Memory: 4GB Corsair (2gb x 2) 800 I’m amazed at how cheap memory is these days. I remember paying close to $200 for mems a couple comps ago, and now I’m paying half that…

Cost so far: around $450 with shipping, plus one of the items has a $20 mail in rebate. I’m going to buy things in a couple stages to make the cost go down a little easier. Next up is going to be a Radeon HD 4870 ($290), I’ll probably add a second one and crossfire them at some point. I want to see how a single works first though. Also need to get Dvd/Cd($30) and HD ($30), I’ll probably go with a 100gb or a 120. I don’t really need a lot of drive space. I have a fair amount of programs, games, and music, and I still don’t have more than 50gb on my drive. I’ll probably go with Windows Vista Home Premium (OEM $95). I just bought a Logitech G5 Laser Mouse, so a new Keyboard will close things out. Close to another $500 to spend.

So, any comments? Seems like it’s going to be a kick ass system for $950, and it’s pretty upgradeable for the future. I will probably need a bigger PS if I add another Radeon, right? The Raidmax case has a 530W included, seems a bit low for 2 graphics cards, but I’m not sure how much power they suck up. I’m also thinking of adding a Zalman Heatsink, I have one equipped on the current PC (not sure if it’s the same model) and I am happy with it. I don’t want to carry anything over from the current PC as it’s going to become a backup computer, maybe to play older games on if I run into incompatibility issues with Vista.

<does the new comp dance>

2

The motherboard only has one PCI x16 slot. So you might want to look into that if you want to add another Radeon HD 4870.

Do you have an HD monitor or TV screen? Otherwise you won’t be able to watch HD video.

Otherwise it looks great. Nice deal on the memory and I’m a big fan of the Zalman fan. The Zalman looks real nice inside a side window.

3

Yeah, I’ll need a new mobo when I want to crossfire in another card. I’m hoping the single Radeon will be able to keep up with games for a while, and by then hopefully some of the higher end boards with multiple PCI-e 2.0 and Crossfire support will have come down to about $100 or so. I have a question: Is Crossfire/SLI support spreading or diminishing? A friend claims that they’re moving back towards a single card format, and says most games don’t fully support multiple GPU’s anyway. Is he right? Or are multiple graphics cards here to stay?
HD isn’t really an issue, I don’t watch movies on the comp. Are there games that support HD? My dad got a HD television, other than that I don’t really know much about it. Does it support higher resolution? How much higher? I’m still running an AGP Card (GeForce 7800GS) on the current system, and run most games in 1400x900.

I think the Zalman heatsink I have now is a 9500A - it’s a little smaller than the one I linked to in my OP, and I barely got it into my case. Those things are freakin’ huge! They are very sharp looking though if you have the room, and do a great job cooling your system. One thing I noticed: The 9700NT has a 4 pin power connector, the 9700 LED has a 3 pin. I thought most PC components were standardized nowadays? Anyhow I’m definitely putting the rest of the system together and measuring it before I pick this up.

I’m trying to figure out what version of Vista to buy. I’ve never used Vista before and don’t offhand know anyone that has it. I do tend to tweak whatever version of Windows I have so that it runs fairly minimally (there’s some awesome tweaking guides over at Tweakhound, and it looks like he’s got Vista covered too). So I’m not going to be running movies as my desktop wallpaper or anything. Home Premium sounds like it would give me a nice basic package, but what does Ultimate Edition offer that I might want? I’m only buying an OS once, and I’m only picking Vista because Microsoft will discontinue support for XP next year. I don’t want to get the lower end one, and wish I had the better features, but I don’t want to get stuck with a bloated sack of crap if I can run a more streamlined version either. So if anyone has any experience with the different flavors of Vista please let me know. Also, 32 vs. 64 bit: Is there any reason I would need a 64 bit OS? I read on newegg’s site that SP1 for the 32 bit versions is able to address all 4gb or RAM, and I’m probably not going to go above 4gb on this comp. Also heard 64 bit requires all drivers to be signed, which means verified by Microsoft, right? Is that a pain in the ass, or not a problem?

Finally, what kind of gaming experience can I be expected to have on Vista? I’ve heard some say their older games won’t run. I don’t have that many older games, but I do want to go back and play Baldur’s Gate or Fallout 1/2 once in a while.

4

I believe the 32-bit Vista with SP1 still can’t make use of the full 4GBs of RAM that you’re going to have. The only change is that it’ll tell you that you have 4GB of RAM installed. Here’s Microsoft’s note regarding the change.

As a side note, if you have room for it on the case, the Xigmatek HDT-S1283 has been getting rave reviews and will cost about half of what a Zalman cooler will.

5

The e7200 is a great cheap chip. OC is simple with your MB. No need to even touch the voltage, and hit 3.0-3.2 with no temp increase. (3.5-4.0 with voltage increase and some temp increase)

6

Beware cheap PSUs, and think about noise.

With 4 GB and a motherboard capable of taking 8 GB, I would recommend the 64 bit version of Vista. And you might want to go for 8 GB straight off.

As others have noted, this motherboard won’t do Crossfire or SLI, but there’s a 4870X2 card and I’m sure Nvidia will come along with a 280GX2 at some point.

7

What advantages will I get from 64 bit Vista vs. 32 bit? Are their disadvantages to the 64 bit version besides having to deal with signed drivers? Any compatibility issues with older programs/games?

SweetLime, that heatsink looks pretty nice. I might have to take a look at it when measuring the case space.

8

Just out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with Radeon? In my experience nVidea’s currently on top of the price/preformance curve and even modestly priced cards can now run current software on maximum settings.

9

The Radeons offer the best bang for the buck at the moment.

10

Increased memory availability. New game like Crysis Warhead now take over 2 GB. This trend will only continue.

Yes, particularly with hardware-based copy protection schemes like Starforce, though there are updates for later versions of Starforce.

11

I along with many other people will disagree with you there, he could get the GeForce GTX 260 for even a lil’ cheaper and it would be a toss up in the benchmarks. If you are referencing the 280 vs 4870 that may be true (bang for buck) as the 280 may cream the 4870, its not by enough to justify the higher costs. The 260 tho, deserves more respect.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229 price 230

Memory
Memory Clock 2000MHz
Memory Size 896MB
Memory Interface 448-bit
Memory Type GDDR3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131114 price 260

Memory
Memory Clock 1800MHz
Memory Size 512MB
Memory Interface 256-bit
Memory Type GDDR5

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I was so referencing.

Ah yes, they’ve released a new version of the 260 - really a GX270 - with extra shaders and a die shrink to compete, haven’t they?

13

Well to be honest I have a Geforce card now (7800GS), and while I’ve been pretty happy with NVidia cards, I’m curious to see what the Radeon experience is like. They both have pretty good cards. The 260 looks sweet, but Radeon will make something that tops it, nVidia will top THAT, and so on and so forth. That’s the problem with buying computer hardware, as soon as you lock it in and are set in stone, there will be a better item for a better price…
I’m mainly concerned about ability to upgrade it a few times before I buy a whole new rig in 3 years or whenever. I am considering sending the board back for one with Crossfire support. I don’t want to have to upgrade the mobo, and I’m probably going to want to throw in a 2nd card at some point (and get a better power supply).

What is a hardware-based copy protection scheme? I remember in a couple games people were saying their copies wouldn’t work because of copying and/or cd cracking software they had on the system. I don’t have any copying or hacking software except Nero. What’s the hardware side?

I’d like some more input on Vista, if anyone can provide. Basically I’ve had a few people say “You should use 64 bit Vista to take advantage of all your memory” and had others complain bitterly about driver issues and how Microsoft will drive our civilization to ruins (can’t argue the 2nd point). Is there a version that has 32 AND 64 bit discs? Then I could try the 64 and if I had too many issues, uninstall and drop down to 32 bit. BTW, how long will WinXP be supported for?

Thanks for the responses!
Apoc

14

Microsoft sell the 32 bit version and the 64 bit version separately, I’m afraid. And there’s no guarantee the copy-protection schemes that won’t work with Vista 64 will work with Vista 32, either. I recommend you choose between XP and Vista 64, and if backwards compatibility is an absolute must, go with XP.

But maybe we can help: what software do you have that you think might not work? Particularly games.

15

The retail versions come with both 32 and 64 bit versions. If you buy OEM you have to choose one. Here is an article with more information.

16

Thanks for the correction.

17

Well, bundled-with-case power supplies tend to be junk. There are occasional exceptions, but personally I would select the case first based only on my requirements for a case, and then buy a PSU separately.

530 watts might be enough for a system with a higher-end graphics card, or it might not. The wattage is not the most important indicator of suitability. What you need to look at is the way the power is divided among the different voltage rails, and most specifically the +12V rails, which run the highest-draw components, including the graphics card. The individual current limit for each rail is important, as well as the combined limit for all rails. Generally you’ll want a PSU capable of putting at least 45 or 50 amps on +12V, and even more if you’re going to run two GPUs. Often this will be split among three or four (or even more) +12V rails, each rated at, say, 20A or 22A or similar. The combined current rating of all the rails IS NOT the total current the PSU is capable of putting on all the rails simultaneously, so be careful.

Another, perhaps more immediate concern is whether you’ll even be able to plug your card into the PSU. The 4870 requires two 6-pin PCIe connectors. Some cards, like the GTX 280, require one 6-pin connector and one 8-pin connector. Today’s high-end graphics cards are power-hungry beasts. It’s hard to tell because it’s not in the specs and the images are so blurry, but it looks like the PSU that comes with that case has two connectors, so you should be okay there, but you’ll definitely need a new PSU if you decide to go Crossfire.

If you really think you might add a second 4870 down the line, I would recommend a power supply like the Corsair 750TX. High power, high efficiency, and it will definitely support 2 4870s. I have one in my case right now powering my GTX 280, and it should be able to support a second one when I get around to it. It’s on sale for $129 before a mail-in rebate, but there’s also a $25-off combo deal if you buy it with the Core 2 Duo E7200, which I notice is already on your list! :slight_smile:

Then you could just get the RAIDMAX Smilodon case without a power supply.

There’s one caveat, however, and that’s that the 750TX is not a modular power supply (meaning no “optional” cables), and it looks like an octopus would look if it had too many legs and was also a computer power supply instead of an octopus. The cables are really, really long - but this is actually a good thing, especially since you indicated you like the side window thing. Really long cables means you can run them wherever you like - run them all the way along the top, drop them down along the drive cages, along the bottom, up to the video card, and so on. The 750TX includes some black zip ties to help with cable management; use those to hold your cables together and in place, and bundle together the unused cables and stick 'em above your DVD drive, and your case will wind up looking neater inside than it would with a PSU with short cables.

Well, they certainly have caught up with NVIDIA this time around. They definitely offer some competitive options, and you won’t be disappointed taking either path. However, I went with a GTX 280 for my last build, mostly because I could buy it from EVGA. Their customer service is incredible; one of their tech guys answered a question I submitted within two hours – on Labor Day weekend!

Yeah, I can attest to this. I have 32-bit Vista Business with SP1 right now, and 4GB of memory installed. It kindly tells me that I have 4GB if I look in System Information, but it’s only using about 2.7GB. I’m going to be installing 64-bit as soon as I can, since I have another 4GB I’d like to make use of. :stuck_out_tongue:

This isn’t quite true. The retail versions all come with a license for both 32-bit and 64-bit Vista, but only the Ultimate Edition actually comes with 64-bit installation media. However, Microsoft offers Windows Vista Alternate Media; basically you can key in your retail license number and it will allow you to order a 64-bit installation disc for a small fee. So as long as you buy a retail copy, you can go this route to have either 32-bit or 64-bit Vista at your disposal.

18

Thanks for the info on Windows and PSU’s, that was very helpful. Thinking about getting that Corsair PS stealth potato posted. I have most of my cables in the current comp tucked into empty drive bays, so it has a nice clean look despite not having modular cables.

I’m going to get a different board, no point in getting a non-crossfire supported board if I’m planning on adding the 2nd card later. I was looking at this one, but I’ll take some recommendations if anyone has any. Should support my memory (184 pin ddr2 800), crossfire with PCI-e 2.0, have onboard sound and ethernet, and of course, fit in my case ;). I don’t care about Firewall or IEE (or whatever that’s called) ports, just want something that’s stable and reliable, with an easy to work with bios.

For the OS, the older games I play that I’d be worried about not working with Vista would be the Baldur’s Gate and Fallout Games, X-Com (I have the Win95 version, it runs ok on XP but crashes a lot), the first Half Life, the Wizardry Collection (can’t get 6 or 7 to work though). Most hardware is going to be new (just bought the printer and mouse). I was looking at the article Lakai linked to, and most of the features of Vista are fluff that I wouldn’t need or want. Slick new interface? I have XP set to “classic” mode, with ALL the pretty stuff turned off. Media Center? I have a lot of mp3’s, but WinAmp does the job, and I don’t really want or need anything else. Remote Desktop? Don’t need it. Backup programs? I run manual backups every 4 months or so, and I find it fast and easy to pull my docs, savegames, files, etc together and throw it into Nero. Throw in the driver headaches everyone keeps telling me I’ll have with Vista, and I’m thinking of sticking with XP more and more. I have XP (home, OEM), and am overall fairly happy with it. It’s stable, I know how to tweak it to run as clean as possible, and it gets the job done. Some googling tells me support for XP will continue for at least 3 years. Question is, can I reinstall my copy of XP on the new rig? It’s an OEM version, but I don’t think it’s a single use license (how can I check?).

19

You mean 240-pin DDR2, surely? 184-pin modules are old-fashioned DDR.

And that motherboard seems rather expensive for your build, especially given your processor selection. Putting a $120 Celeron in a $230 motherboard is overkill. Something like this Gigabyte motherboard would probably be a better choice. There’s really not much reason to spend up in the $200-$300 range for a motherboard unless you intend to overclock.

You should be fine license-wise, as long as you don’t use it on the old machine as well. I believe it is a license to install and use the software on one machine at any given time.

20

I agree the motherboard is overkill but it is upgradable for the future so it doesn’t make a big difference. But the obvious disrespect you show for the highly rated e7200 series needs some smackdowns. :stuck_out_tongue: