Opinions on new computer

In My Humble Opinion
1

Well, first of all, I’m not looking for a complete computer. I want to keep my ATI All in Wonder card, my old hard drive, and my DVD and CD-RW. So what I’m looking for is the best place to buy a case with a >=350W power supply, >=1.5 GHZ processor, >=80GB hard drive, >= 1GB RAM, and a mother board that supports USB 2.0, integrated lan and preferably integrated sound. Support for firewire would be nice, but is not necessary.

It would be nice to have them assemble the pieces and have it all arive in one box so all I have to do in transfer over my old equipment and load my OS.

So basically, I’m looking for input as to the best place to look for such a combo, as well as brands of motherboards that would be best. Also help understanding what all the different types of DDR ram would be great. Last time I bought ram the only decision I had to make was PC100 or PC133, so I don’t understand all these new features, such as ECC, Reg, and so on.

I have manage to configure a system on www.actonlinestore.com for $598.85 This has the following features:

Motherboards : AMD Single CPU Boards
Gigabyte GA-7VAX Socket A DDR Retail Box
Processors
AMD Athlon™ XP 2000+ 384K 266FSB OEM
Cooling Devices : CPU Fans
Thermaltake Volcano 9 Socket A Variable Fan Speed Control
Memory : DDR Memory
2x 512Mb DDR266 Reg ECC PC2100 (1Gb Total)
Hard Drives : IDE Hard Drives
120Gb ATA100 WD1200JB 8Mb 7200rpm
Cases : Tower Cases
ATX Deluxe MidTower 400W P.S. w/2 Front USB
Cooling Devices
2x Case Cooling Fans

Is this a good deal? Are there changes I should make to the configuration? I’m trying to keep it right around $600, but I want a good computer as well. I’m planning on keeping enough parts in my old computer so that I can rebuild it in a year or so for my son.

Thanks in advance for your input.

2

A lot interest is being generated around the Nividia 2 chipsets for the AMD CPU’s. They seem to be fast and there are a number manufacturers that are making them now. The ABIT NF7 - S has all the features you describe inclunding Firewire support. I have been thinking about getting one of those in the future. EPOX and ASUS make good quality boards. It really is not that hard to assemble a computer if you are the least bit good with tools and know how the components work in a computer. Plus there are many sites that will help you if there is a question or a problem. I visit TechIMO a lot and there are loads of info and assitance there if you need some. Look here for some reviews of Act Online before you buy. Do you need 1 GB of RAM? I don’t think you would need ECC RAM but if you do make sure your motherboard supports it. I buy my components from Newegg , they are very good with prices and returns and ship fast. They do not pre-assemble though.

3

I’ll have to take a look at those boards. I pretty much picked the Gigabyte since that is what is in my current computer and the price seemed good. I don’t have an attachment to any particular brand as long as price/features/reliability are good.

That is true. However I don’t want to have to find a cable or a set or screws or some trivial item to assemble the computer if I can help it. I figured since I wanted to buy a new box, one of these barebones systems would be a fairly good deal.

Do I need 1 GB of ram? No, probably not. But the price difference between the 512 I currently am running and the 1GB seemed relatively small so I figured I might as well get it all at once. So what is the difference between ECC and not? I also read about registered memory and don’t understand that. Also, if I got ECC RAM, would that work if my mother board didn’t support it? Like when I bought PC133 ram and my motherboard only supported PC100, I was simply spending extra mony that I didn’t need to, but it was all that was readily available.

I’ll check out the sites you gave me as well. Thanks.

4

Gigabyte makes a good board. ECC RAM has an extra parity bit for error checking. I think that this is mainly used in servers and there is not a great need for the home computer. Not all motherboards support it though. Firewire cards are pretty cheap and USB and LAN are getting to be standard. Computer cases and “retail packages” of motherboards and components generally include screws and cables. Note the term retail and not OEM. Also check MWave they have a good reputation and prices are fair. Good luck and let us know what you decide as I think building a system this way versus Dell or whatever is the best with easy upgrades in the future. I have been doing it this way for the past 7-8 years after my first Packard Bell.

5

The Gigabyte GA-7VAX doesn’t appear to be a bad motherboard, it probably has the second-best chipset available on it. You might not notice the difference between 266MHz memory and 333MHz memory with the 2000+ Processor, but I’d . The hard drive rocks.

IOW, you’ve got a second-tier motherboard and cpu, third-tier memory, and a top of the line hard drive. That’s probably what you’re going to get for $600.

-lv

6

It’s a little on the high end. Buy the parts seperately at www.pricewatch.com and you should be able to save about $150.

7

I bought my computer from the same place a couple of months ago. So far it has been working fine. I recommend going with non-ECC DDR333 PC2700 Ram You could locate the parts separatly, but then you have to put them all together, and decide if the hassle of making everything work is worth the savings.

8

So are you saying I should get better memory? Is there another motherboard I should be considering? I don’t necessarily need to get a case, since I do have one that works. The only reason I was considering a new case was for the front USB ports. Am I correct in assuming that I could route these to the back of my existing case, as well as the integrated LAN?

Perhaps it would be a better option to get a motherboard that doesn’t have the integrated LAN and Firewire and get the cards to put in? I do have a LAN card right now, and it works reasonably well, except that the connection is a bit loose, so sometimes when I move the computer the network cable falls out.

I don’t have an issue with assembling my own computer, but I would hate to wait another 6 weeks while I waited on a $5 cable that I forgot to order.

9

You could pick up the loose ends at a nearby retailer without the wait.
Also, the reason your ethernet cable falls out is you probably broke off the retainer clip on the RJ-45 jack that would normally hold the cable in place. Pick up a new cable as long as your at it.

I`m thinking of doing the exact same thing you are considering. I have an old P2-350. But I upgraded almost everything on it so far and all I really need is a new MB and a processor. I will be waiting to hear how yours come together, keep us posted.

10

I actually have one (somewhere, I think)… just been to lazy to see if that’s the problem. Cables can be made in a few minutes here at work :slight_smile: I don’t crawl under my computer desk often enough for it to bother me…

11

ok, I checked out newegg.com and mwave.com and the prices came out about the same (within $50 of each other) for the same (with the exception of the case) equpment. So here’s a list of what I have so far. As always, I’m hoping for comments about where I can improve, where I may have gone overboard.

Codegen (CG Group) Mid Tower case, Model CAT-6072-1F Beige with 400W Power supply and Firewire ports Retail
Specifications:
Material:Steel
Form Factor:ATX
Bays:4x 5.25" 2x 3.5" and 5 3.5" (hidden)
Expansion Slots:7
Fans:0
Power Supply: 400W Power Supply
Dimensions:19.10 x 7.68 x 17.52 Inches (L x W x H)

N82E16811182034
$59.00

?On Sale! WD WESTERN DIGITAL “SPECIAL EDITION” 120GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD1200JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY
Specifications:
Size: 120 Gigabytes
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100
Seek time: 8.9ms
RPM:7200
Cache 8MB
OEM(Drive alone) 3 Year Manufacturer Warranty --* Works With PC & Mac *-- more info>

N82E16822144118
$140.00

?On Sale! KINGSTON KVR333X64C25/512 512MB 32x64 PC2700 DDR RAM (better than 2100 2400)
6 Layers High Quality Board; CL 2.5; 184-Pin Unbuffered. Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty through Manufacturer.

N82E16820144201
$59.00

2 for $118.00

Gigabyte GA-7VAXP1.2, VIA KT400 chipset ,8X AGP ATX motherboard Retail
CPU Support: Socket A for AMD Athlon XP /Athlon/Duron processors
FSB: 200/266/333 MHz
Chipset: VIA KT400/VIA 8235
Memory: 3x 184-pin DIMM slots
Memory Type: DDR400(PC3200) / DDR333 (PC2700) / DDR266 (PC2100) / DDR200 (PC1600), 3GB Max
IDE: 4 x UDMA ATA133/100/66
Slots: 1x AGP(8x/4x, AGP 3.0/2.0 compliant, supports 1.5v), 5x PCI
Ports: 1x FDD, PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse, 2x USB 2.0, 3x IEEE 1394, 2x COM, 1x RJ45, Audio (1 x Line-in / 1 x Line-out / 1 x Mic) connector, / Smart Card Reader connectors(version 1.0 1.1 ONLY)
Onboard Audio: AC97 Realtek ALC650 6-ch
Onboard LAN: Realtek 8100BL 10/100Mb
Onboard RAID: PromisePDC20276 ATA 133 more info>

N82E16813128174
$110.00

AMD Athlon XP 2200+/266 FSB Processor CPU - Retail Box
Specifications:
CPU: 1.8 GHz
Type: XP 2200+ Thoroughbred
Cache: 256K
BUS: 266MHz
Socket A (PGA) Retail (Box with Heatsink and fan) more info>

N82E16819103334
$108.00

Subtotal » 535.00 Shipping and Handling Charge » 22.00
Grand Total » $ 557.00

12

That’s looking much better.

I had said ‘second tier’ motherboard, only because the NForce II chipset boards have been outperforming the boards with the lastest VIA a bit. But the Gigabyte board is loaded, getting the Asus A7N?? (can’t remember model number exactly, Asus’s NForceII board), which is equally loaded, will cost about $40 more, last time I checked.

If you get a case with front USB/firewire connectors, what you’ll have is the connector on the outside of the case and a bunch of wires on the inside. You then have to plug these wires into a head on the motherboard. If the Motherboard doesn’t have a spare head, then the front USB connector becomes a pretty decoration. Usually, though, you can plug in the front side ports INSTEAD of a pair of the backside ports that come with the MB. However, since MB makers haven’t standardized on USB MB heads yet, you’ll probably find yourself having to plug in each and every wire to each pin individually.

At which point you start asking yourself “why the fuck didn’t I just buy a little USB hub and tape it to the side of the case?”

Personal preference:
I’ve always prefer integrated network, USB, and Firewire, because the PnP bios knows better how to avoid address/interrupt conflicts that way. I’ve recently started prefering integrated sound for the same reason, plus the great leaps that have been made recently in integrated sound quality (Nforce II especially).

-lv

13

Rather than start a new thread, I’m going to contribute to hijacking this one. I also am looking at upgrading, and am also looking at buying most of a new computer. My budget is pretty tight - I don’t want to go much over Cdn$500 (~US$330), and I want to focus heavily on getting good quality core elements, leaving peripheral stuff to be filled in by components from my existing (archaic, PII266) machine, and/or upgraded later, with the idea that I’ll be able to squeeze a longer life out of the thing if I buy with an eye to upgradeability.

Question 1: Does anyone know of any Canadian online discount computer retailers (or US ones that ship to Canada without wiping out savings in shipping charges)? Right now I’m likely buying my stuff from these guys, a local shop with decent but not great prices that sells as many or as few parts of a system as you want, but with a relatively limited selection.

My current tentative plan is to skimp a little bit on the processor, going with an Athlon XP 1700, in order to spend the savings on a bit better motherboard (possibly the aforementioned Gigabyte GA7VAX), on the theory that the difference between a 1700 and a 2000 will be negligible, but 3 years down the road I’d be kicking myself for limiting myself to PC2100 DDR by buying a motherboard with a KT266 chipset.

Question 2: Does the cpu’s front side bus speed of 266Mhz mean that the 400Mhz bus speed on a board with the VIA KT400 chipset goes to waste? Is the PC3200 DDR RAM (400Mhz) actually any faster than PC2100 (266Mhz) with a 266Mhz fsb cpu?

Question 3: How much power supply do I need? Is 300w going to significantly limit me down the road?

Question 4: Will I get into trouble using just stock cooling options?

So, here’s my extremely tentative purchase list:
Athlon XP 1700+
Gigabyte GA7VAX VIA KT400
256MB PC3200 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 7000 64MB AGP
Nikao Premium case, 350w, 2 Front USB, front audio (can I get away with the generic 300w case?)
Samsung 48x24x48x cd-rw

This comes to Cdn$537, which is pushing things, but not too badly.

I then borrow from the existing machine:
Western Digital 10GB 7200rpm HD
mouse and keyboard
speakers (nifty Monsoons)
monitor, obviously (17" KDS, nothing special, but works)
floppy? Or just screw the floppy drive. Not sure. Not a big expense either way.

Since I’d like to have the old system functioning to have a risk-free environment to play with linux distros and such, this means scamming a cheap keyboard, mouse, and monitor (used 15" probably) somewhere, and getting by with the old 4GB HD currently in the slave position.

Then as money becomes available, upgrades are made in roughly the following order:
Bigger and faster bus HD (I think this one is ATA100, not sure, but new one absolutely must be ATA133)
More RAM
DVD-ROM
Better vid card
And, 3 years down the road, whatever turns out to be the zippiest Socket A cpu I can stick on my board, once it only costs a hundred bucks.

Comments? Suggestions?

14

Oh, the case didn’t come with any fans. You want at lease one, probably two.

-lv

15

Is this something that can be added to an existing case, or something that I would need to find a difference case for? I want to do this right the first time, plus leave enough of my old computer to have a second system.

16

Common sense tells me what you’ve figured out, but it doesn’t appear to work that way. There is a noticable improvement in memory bandwidth with the PC3200 DDR, especially with faster processors.

300w is the current minimum for power supply. 250W was the minimum 2 years ago. I doubt computers are going to start using less power in the future.

Not if you don’t overclock.

As to your list, 400MHz memory is so much more expensive than 333MHz right now it may not be worth the added expense (IOW, you can buy 333MHz today AND 400 MHz a year and a half from now for what will likely be the price of buying 400 MHz today).

I don’t know about the ATI line, but boards made with the NVidia 4200 TI are at a very good price/performance point right now.

ATA133 drives aren’t really all that much faster than ATA100 drives. That number is the burst data rate, and stopped being the limiting factor at ATA100 for most disks. Then you get into seek delays, rotational delays and the like. This is why an ATA100 drive with a big-assed cache (Like the WD model in the OP) can easily outperform an ATA133 drive.

I would get a better processor, as I think you’re only saving yourself $10-$20 by getting a 1700 verses a 2100 or 2200, and the 1700 is about three-forths as fast as a 2200.

Dilbert, almost any case will have places where you can mount a fan or two (or 5 or 6). Any case that you spend $50+ on should have fan mounts. any case you spend $60+ on will likely be $50+ cases with a fan or two installed :slight_smile:

-lv

17

Yea, I noticed on the pictures from egghead.com that there were about 4 spots they showed with fans on the case, apparently that is an optional feature on this case. Off to add to my list.

18

Ok, so I’m talking to myself. Is it safe to assume (since I can’t find information on the manufactures site), that these would be 80MM fans?

19

The vast majority of case fans are the same standard size. The only common difference is the type of power connector. Most have the big 4 prong white plug thing that hard drives/etc use, many have a smaller 4 prong thing that fits on a motherboard head, and some have an extra bit of logic so they can tell the mb how fast they’re spinning (so your MB can send a warning to you if the fan quits). As long as you have a spot to plug it into, any should be fine.

-lv

20

I thought as much. 350w it is, then.

Well, the price difference (at this place) is from $61 for the 333Mhz to $78 for the 400Mhz. Going with the 333Mhz is something I’ve considered. The thinking behind going with the 400Mhz is that it could be added to instead of replaced - I’m likely to want to expand up to 512MB before the end of the year, and it seems unlikely to me that I’ll find the replacement cost of 256MB to be less than $17 in that timeframe. The alternative would be expanding to 512MB 333Mhz stuff, and then upgrading again at a later date, probably spending more money in total.

Looks like it’s between the Radeon 7000 or the Geforce2 MX400 at comparable prices. I should research this area more, yes, including looking at other sources with more selection on vid cards.

Okay, that’s good to know. HD upgrade is going to be a few months down the road, though, so I’ll have to study the situation then.

Well, from this supplier, the prices are as follows:
1700 - $106
1800 - $125
2000 - $148
2100 - $167
2200 - $194 (all prices Cdn)

If it were 20 bucks between the 1700 and the 2100, I’d certainly go that way, but any significant jump here requires spending less on something else - I don’t want to skimp on the motherboard, so that would probably mean skipping the cd-rw and using the cd-rom on my existing machine, and the cd-rw is something I’d really quite like.

I’m still looking for other sources that could maybe save me a bit of money, savings most likely to be put into more cpu.