New computer configuration

Factual Questions
1

So my computer is getting old and I am planning on building a new one and I need some information and advice. I welcome all advice and opinions but I am mostly interested in factual information. That is the reason I have put this in GQ rather than IMHO.

I have already spent a fair amount of hours gathering information and studying it and I have a configuration I am working on. The first thing I need is for you to tell me if there’s anything obviously wrong like incompatibilities between components and such. I feel quite lost in all of this. I am also mentioning what I consider to be indicative prices so you can also tell me if I am way off on anything but discussing prices is not the object here.

So let’s get started:

1- ATX case with 300W power supply. $52.00
Question: do they all come now with USB connectors in the front?

2- INTEL D845B mainboard w/ 478PGA Socket, up to 2GB of DDR 266 SDRAM, integrated audio, CNR, 1.5V 4X/2X AGP, 6 PCI, 7 USB 1.1 - $150.00
I have chosen INTEL because I have read they have a reputation for stability. I do not need to overclock or tinker. I want stability before anything else. Now, there are three groups of Intel D845 boards. The D845W use PC133 Sdram while the D845B and D845P use DDR266 RAM. I am assuming DDR266 is faster and better. True? Then I believe the D845P are just microATX versions of the D845B. Since space is plentiful I go for the D845B, of which there are three different versions: D845BG (w/ audio & CNR), D845BGL (w/ audio &LAN), D845BGSE (w/audio, CNR & USB 2.0). I am not sure about CNR but I believe it is not used and I cannot use it so it really makes no difference. I think it was something Intel was trying to do and never really got off the groun? The LAN part I really don’t need either nor the USB 2.0 … so the questions are:
2.1- Is DDR266 better than PC133 and should I choose one of these boards for this reason?
2.2- I suppose the difference is USB 2.0 is faster than USB 1.1. Right? Is USB 2.0 worth having? Is it compatible with USB 1.1?
2.3- Anything I should be aware of with these boards?

3- Processor INTEL PENTIUM IV 1,6 GHZ 478 $150.00

4- Fan & heat sink $12.00

5- RAM: 256 MB DDR $70.00 ( I can expand later)

6- Graphics Card: AVI RADEON 7500 64MB $114.00
I am not interested in games. Just want a reliable card for basic stuff and the occasional MPG movie. I am especially concerned with the video card because I have never used a card with AGP, video in/out, dual monitor etc. All information on this topic and card welcome. This card seemed to be a good compromise of performance vs. price.

7- 56K PCI modem-fax-voice. I am a bit lost here as I have seen them from $20 to $80. Any advice? I have a winmodem now and it works fine but it is ISA so I need to get a PCI because the new board has no ISA slots. Let’s say $30.00 so I can continue an accumulated total.

8- CD writer. Anything I should know? I bought a HP when they first came out and it was a piece of crap which never really worked and I got no support from HP. So I am not getting an HP. Other than that, anything I should know? For now I have tentatively budgeted a Sony 24x10x40 for $90.00

10- FDD $10.00

11- PS2 mouse $2.00

12- Generic speakers $20.00

13- Keyboard - I have one I got at a goodwill store for $1.00

14- HDD I have a 20GB drive I can use and maybe upgrade later

15- OS: I have WIN98SE for now and I can get XP in the future

16- Monitor: I have a 15" which works fine and I can upgrade in the future.

So we have an accumulated total of $700 (I tweaked the figures because I like round numbers but they’re indicative). Does this make sense?

Will all these parts work together or are there any incompatibilities?

As I say, I have arrived at this stage after a lot of research. I now need to go over the entire thing again and make sure the individual parts are compatible and add up to something that makes sense

17- As a side issue: I want to get a SmartMedia reader/writer. I have a Fuji digital camera which uses these cards and I can plug it directly into the USB but I can only read and not write. I have decided it is a good idea to keep my encryption keys and some sensitive files on a SmartMedia card which I can remove from the computer, rather than keep the encrypted files and encryption keys on the hard disk. That way if one of my computers is ever stoled or compromised, the information is still safe.
I thank everybody beforehand as I know it takes time and effort to post. I truly appreciate any and all input.

2

I’ll just answer the bit about USB 2.0 - yes it is backward compatible and is mainly useful for external drives. USB 1.1 was developed mostly for low-speed peripheral like keyboards and input devices. It’s limited to 12 Mbit/sec, barely enough for a 6x speed CD-ROM or CD-R drive. USB 2.0 theoretically goes up to 480 Mbit/sec, even faster than SCSI or IEEE 1394. There are already many external CD-R, DVD-RAM and hard drives that support USB 2.0.

3

Hmmm, in that case maybe I should choose the D845BGSE main board which has USB 2.0, even if it costs $15 or $20 more

4

Hmmm, in that case maybe I should choose the D845BGSE main board which has USB 2.0, even if it costs $15 or $20 more

5

review of your board

A few opinions
20 gigs is way too small for a modern hard drive in new box. Once you start playing with av files like mpgs etc a 40 and preferably a 60 gig+ is the way to go. You can get a 7200 rpm 20 gig for around 65.00 and 40 gig for around 77.00 and a 60 gig is only $ 104.00 etc. Do not get a 5400 RPM drive. See this link www.newegg.com for pricing.

You are making a big mistake getting a cheap mouse and keyboard. If anything, this is where you shoud be spending money. A Microsoft Natural keyboard Pro (ergonomic) or a straight IBM Leymark or Keytronic boards are recommended.

A logitech optical mouse is the only way to go and makes a big difference in usability. See Logitech’s descritpion

It’s $ 30 retail and worth every penny for the increase in response and relability over a roller ball based mouse.

You really should be upgrading that monitor also but I’ll let that go for now.
Here some reliable links for pricing

www.newegg.com - my favorite site for purchases
www.thechipmerchant.com - good for memory
www.buy.com - some excellent deal or peripherals

6
      • #1-All cases do not come with USB or other connectors in front, though many motherboards now support these panels, with a plug on the motherboard to run to them. There are companies that make “front panels” that fit into the place of an unused 3.5 or 5.25 drive, but that costs more money. -And I don’t know how “useful” front-panels really are, because if you plug and unplug cables into them all the time, they wear out and have to be replaced anyway, which can be a problem. To avoid it, I just run a USB hub that has enough ports to leave everything hooked up all the time.
  • #2-Just an opinion…the motherboard has onboard sound. If you ever plan on upgrading to a better sound card, you would be better off to get a board without any “integrated audio”, and a cheap ($20) PCI sound card to start with. On-board sound is almost always generic-(low)-quality anyway, and can cause peculiar problems when you upgrade to a real sound card.
  • Also when I looked ~8 months ago, CNR slots were for cheapo-modems and cheapo-soundcards, and were fairly useless overall. Another PCI slot instead would be far more useful.
    #6-Any half-decent video card should support DVD decoding. I don’t know if this card does or not, but I’m just sayin’…
    #15- WinXP is not any miracle, and it does not come with a crash-proof money-back guarantee and there’s reasons for that. If Win98 runs everything you have okay, then save the money and headaches and use Win98 until something (some software or hardware you want or need) requires you to upgrade. - DougC
7

astro, thanks for your input.

>> 20 gigs is way too small … Do not get a 5400 RPM drive.

Well, the idea is to do this in stages and what I have posted is the first stage. I would not buy a 20 GB drive but I already have one doing nothing so I might as well use it for now. Besides, I am not much into video and music anyway. I can probably get buy with this drive I have for quite a while.

>> You are making a big mistake getting a cheap mouse and keyboard… A logitech optical mouse is the only way to go

Well, I have a keyboard and my typing is such that I don’t need more than what I have so, at least for this first stage, I think I’ll just use what I have. But you are very right about the mouse and I had to slap my head when I read your post because I get extremely frustrated when the mouse does not work smoothly which is very often. I will get a better mouse. I don’t know what I was thinking.

Same thing regarding the monitor: once I complete this first step I can start thinking of the next one but time, effort and money are all in limited supply.

I am finding out that some of the main boards I was looking at are not so esy to find. The Intel D845BGSE is a bit difficult to find, I don’t know why.

At least I gather you have not detected obvious blunders in my configuration, which is a good thing.

DougC, I would like to have USB connectors on the front because I have a camera and other things which I need to plug in only occasionally and I hate having external things in the way.

I did consider the sound issue but I came to the conclusion that any sound is better than what I need and chances are I will never upgrade to anything. When I bought my present computer I bought a separate sound card for the same reason and it has worked fine and I would not upgrade so I think I am safe with the onboard sound.

It seems CNR is for OEM stuff and it is not intended for field upgrades. From what I have read nobody uses it so my guess is it will go the way of the 8 track tapes. You are right that a PCI slot would be better.

Re WinXP, yeah, I agree, for now I’m sticking with Win98SE and I’ll only upgrade if and when I have to.

8

http://str8buy.com/noname11.html

INTEL BOXD845BGSE INTEL 845 CHIPSET ULTRA ATA100 ATX 1xAGP PRO/6xPCI/1xCNR/2xDDR W/USB 2.0,AUDIO P4 MOTHERBOARD (RETAIL BOX )(CPU TYPE:INTEL PENTIUM 4 - 478PIN)
BOXD845BGSERegular price : $160.00Straight Price: $140.00

9

#1 300W is low. 350W or 400W power supply is a better choice. Other things to look for is size (bigger boxes = better airflow), no. of fans in the back and the front, and whether you can snap open the case on the side.

#2 The i845 chipset is mediocre. If you must run Intel P4 RDRAM is a better choice so far, if nothing else the i850 chipset gives you a better choice. But I do not have any problems with AMD chips as long as you have good cooling.

#2.1 Yes
#2.2 Yes, yes, yes :slight_smile:

#3 The problem with P4 is it has a low IPC rating, which means it has a lower performance rating that you would expect from just the clock speed alone. As I have mentioned I had no problems with AMD CPUs; they are cheaper and have better performance, so you save money.

#4 This is the area where you want to spend. Allocate at least $30, preferably more.

#5 This is fine

#6 This is a good graphics chip. Check Tom’s Hardware or Ananatech for reviews.

#7 Ugh, no winmodems. Bad, bad choice. Drop them like blobs of molten steel. Choose a real external modem such as a 3Com. The reason an external modem is better is you can reset the thing indepdent of your computer. Also an external modem is mobile and doesn’t drain power from your PC.

#8 Plextor is best. What you look for in CD burners is a feature called “buffer underrun protection.”

#9 No #9

#11 & #13 Mouse and keyboard should be something that is worth spending $$$ on. These the the parts you interacct. A good mouse and keyboard reduce fatigue.

#14 20GB is sufficient unless you start doing video editing, 3D animation, and other such things that take up loads of space.

#16 Monitor is another area where money is well spent. Afterall what is wrong with treating your own eyes right, no? :slight_smile: Depending on what you want to do an LCD screen may or may not be a good choice. CRTs still have beeter colour fidelity and uniformity, which are paramount if you need to do serious work with images.

#17 You can do the same thing by using PGP or GPG. Just keep your key on a floppy or some other movable media.

10

Case with Power supply included is bad

I would look at getting them separately. The Power supplies that you get included with cases nowadays are often cheaply made, and loaded with problems that could affect stability. Bad power = crashes and errors.

Get a case that has good cooling. Front and rear fans are good for a non-gaming system that might possibly one day be “upgraded” to one. Look for one with easy-to-remove side panels so that you can blow out/vacuum out the dust occasionally.

As for power supplies, you can’t go wrong with Antec. Very good inexpensive and steady power supplies there.

It might cost you an extra few bucks, but the benefits will last the life of the system, and the headaches saved will be many.

11
      • This Just In: Slashdot has a big comparison of motherboard manufacturers… - DougC
12

Urban Ranger,

While I agree with almost all of your recommendations, I’ll have to make an exception regarding the RDRAM, since sailor seems to give cost a lot of weight in his decision.

I have RDRAM right now, but it’s insanely expensive compared to it’s non RAMBUS counterparts, at least for now.

13

I’ll comment on what I can add here only.

If you have the option, make certain you’ve gone for a really good fan/heat sink. IMO, the stingy person can end up paying the most here.

It’s decent overall, and ATI gives good support for their cards and drivers. You might also consider the “All in Wonder” version, if you want to have a TV Tuner, VCR, and/or convert camcorder tapes/video tapes into MPGs.

Too bad about the ISA slot thing. I had a spare 56k modem sitting here…

Don’t be too hard on HP and write them off yet. Until the last couple of years, I’d say that many CD writers were/are pieces of crap, from Sony, Hitachi, Yamaha, and HP. My company went through many different models, and now eventually has come back to HP and Yamaha as the best choices.

Personally, I’d go ahead and wait too before upgrading, like you’ve planned on. Many people feel that by the end of this year a 160 GB drive will be down to $150, and it’s possible that 200 GB - 320 GB drives will soon be available. You can always just Ghost the partitions over with no problem when you get a larger drive.

Good choice, stick with this for at least another year. But realize that eventually, you will most likely have to do XP like everyone else…

14

You are correct, RDRAM is expensive. Unfortunately, either Intel didn’t do a good job with the i845 chipset, or the P4 is really no good with PC2100 (DDR) SDRAM, that it is slower by ~15% on average. Coupled that with the already low IPC rating of the P4 and he’ll be paying a bundle for a slow computer. Not a good thing.

So unless he’s switching to AMD, he might as well bite the bullet to get a faster system.

15

Two items of note:

(1) A USB 2.0 chain will drop down to USB 1.1 speeds if one device in the chain is not USB 2.0 compatable.

(2) The next IEEE 1394 specification is close to being complete; when it is done, it will offer 800 Mbit/sec, which is double the current 1394 specification and bound to make USB 2.0 less-than-efficient.

By the way, I heard that USB 2.0 was developed simply because motherboard manufacturers didn’t want to pay licensing fees to Apple for their use of IEEE 1394 (who developed it under the name “Firewire”). Can anyone confirm/deny?

16

That’s 60MB/s. Faster than Fast and Wide SCSI (40MB/s) but slower than Ultra2 SCSI which goes at 80MB/s, and there is Ultra160 at 160MB/s, and Ultra320 is in the final drafting stage.

Ultra2 SCSI came out in 1998. :stuck_out_tongue:

17

Urban Ranger, I am not sure if I should thank you because after you said AMD was a better choice I have spent countless hours searching for info on Athlon XP processors and motherboards and now I am more confused than before (if that is possible). It is said that a man with one watch always knows the time but a man with two watches is never sure. Now I am even less sure of anything. So, what would be a good choice of mainboard and processor? As I said, I want stability over anything else. I found a brand I had never hear before: EPoX 8KHA+. Does this board with a K7 1800XP for about $275 seem like good deal?

Also, regarding reliability of the DDR RAM, should I look out for anything? (brand, etc)

Everybody hates winmodems but I have had no problems with mine even though it is a no-name bulk type. And I much prefer internal stuff than having things all over the place. If the new board had an ISA slot I would gladly tranfer my old modem but it seems ISA slots are dead.

>> If you have the option, make certain you’ve gone for a really good fan/heat sink. IMO, the stingy person can end up paying the most here.

Anthracite, you have just described me. I am the one who pays more later because he thought he could save now. And I don’t learn. But I’ll take your advice when I buy.

The reason I will not consider HP for a CD writer is not the quality of their products today but what they did to me in the past. They took $350 from me and gave me nothing but a piece of crap that did not record a total of 10 CDroms in its lifetime. When I called them they tried to charge me for the call. Screw them.

Regarding HDD I have a 20 GB and a 5.3 GB lying around so I am going to use this for now.

Regarding USB 2.0, it seems very few boards offer it so I’ll forget about it for now and I’ll get a USB 2.0 board in the future if I need one.

One thing I have always liked is IrDA. I don’t know why because I don’t use it that much… just seems like a neat thing to have.

Ok, and now I will return to my confusing research on this issue.

18

Well, now that you’re thinking Athlon, I’ve got a couple suggestions for you.

I’m running an Athlon XP 1800+ right now.

In your research, I hope you found this page. Click on the links on the right for AMD’s recommendations for motherboards and power supplies. I use the heatsink/fan combo that came with my processor.

FTR, I recommend buying a processor in the retail box, not OEM.

I use the Gigabyte motherboard GA-7dx. There are newer versions of this motherboard. I haven’t had any problems with it. It also supports AGP 4x, which the card you mentioned will run at.

When buying RAM, I pretty much stick to name brands: Micron, Crucial are good. You might pay a little more, but it is your computer, and you want it to work.

Good luck. I remember building my first computer. I was incredibly nervous.

19

Check Tom’s Hardware for reviews of motherboards and stuff. They do a good job of it.

If you want stability, look no futher than [. You may also be interested in this [url=http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010521/index.html]massive comparison](http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q3/010806/index.htmlmobos that uses AMD’s own 760 chipset[/url) of coolers.

I now have 4 or 5 friends waiting for me to build their computers. Dang freeloaders!

20

Blast! Fixed URL link.

Check Tom’s Hardware for reviews of motherboards and stuff. They do a good job of it.

If you want stability, look no futher than mobos that uses AMD’s own 760 chipset. You may also be interested in this massive comparison of coolers.

I now have 4 or 5 friends waiting for me to build their computers. Dang freeloaders!