KGS: sad. SDMB: sadder.

The BBQ Pit
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I occasionally read the SDMB for its enlightened and energetic and frequently humorous discussions, but I have never posted to it because I typically don’t feel I have anything to further the conversation. But I am moved to do so today.

I am saddened by the board’s response to an obviously challenged (and uninformed) individual who, for whatever reasons, decided to publicly assert what he feels are legitimate arguments in a debate dedicated to that subject. The discussion was, after all, about a topic that holds no mainstream support to begin with. That KGS decided to take his ire when challenged out in the pit was questionable, but on review a decision that most right-minded, sincere, and sympathetic people would view as an unfortunate mistake. And let it go at that.

Der Trihs is completely correct in his observations about what science is and isn’t, however abrasively he chooses to convey them. His views on religion and the spiritual world (should there be one) are, however, not facts but personal opinions that he is welcome to, as are the opinions of others who may hold differing views. As a civilized society, we have come to tolerate these differing beliefs for the greater good.

We have rules, people. You can call them social conventions, etiquette, mores, whatever. But in the end, they are rules. They allow us to get along together despite our differences and make progress as a group.

Do you make fun of proud winners in the Special Olympics? “You moron, my grandmother could beat you in a race!” Do you disparage someone on crutches who isn’t moving quite as fast as you’d like in the checkout line at the grocery store? “Oh, get out of the way, you gimp!”

No. You demonstrate respect for someone who, despite obvious challenges, is soldiering on.

It appears that KGS has read a few authoritative scientific articles and some less so authoritative and some not so authoritative at all and has internalized a world view that many would find strange and difficult to support. To challenge these ideas calmly and rationally on their merits is acceptable, in fact the point of an SDMB discourse. To ridicule at great length and bait someone to further embarrass and humiliate themselves is not. It merely displays an ugly character and a lack of respect and decency. I hope you are all ashamed of your behavior.

You can argue all you want with a glacier, but it will continue to gouge out the Grand Canyon whether you like it or not. The wiser choice is to accept the fact of the Grand Canyon. And wonder at it, not judge it.

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he said oh so judgingly…

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I don’t feel ashamed at all. There are plenty of places on the Internet - and in the real world, I’m sorry to say - where addlepated notions like aura-reading and crystal-gazing and spells and counterspells and spirits are all given the same careful consideration and rational discussion as chemistry, biology, or astrophysics. I am very, very happy to say that this is not one of them.

A Special Olympian would not enter a competition against a mainstream competitor, and a new-age yaboo shouldn’t go throwing around the idea that he or she is performing “science” in a place where people actually know what science IS.

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link?

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Good luck wading through all that.

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While you may not like the “personal” manner in which such things are handled, I very much disagree with the idea that we must dumb down the conversation and accept another person’s ill informed nonsense as if it is a valid opinion on a subject when it is clearly not so.

Not everything is equally true, all opinions are not equally valid, all ideas are not equally acceptable, all morals are not equivalent.

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Aswan It falls on deaf ears. Everyone wants an underclass who they can kick. They like to talk about how backward people in India are for having a caste dedicated to that purpose, but ultimately it’s all the same. Most of the time, most people just want to kick someone, as Hamadryad so eloquently displays here.

If you made fun of homosexuals, transsexuals or any other ‘protected class’ that the liberal PC elite has decided is verboten you would get piled on by the exact some people for your intolerance. It’s funny, it’s hypocritical and it’s sad.

If I made fun of Der Trihs for having asperger’s and being completely and totally socially inept, as he clearly is, that would get me a pile on. But of course it’s ok because KGS personality quirks manifest themselves in the way that makes it ok to be totally nasty and mean on this message board.

When people here speak of tolerance, it’s a complete and total sham. Tolerance is for things you have a problem with. There is no tolerance here. People who have no problem with homosexuality are not being tolerant of homosexuals. They don’t need to be tolerant because they have no problem with it.

Let this Pit thread proceed apace and watch as all the equivocations as to why people don’t need to be tolerant to ‘certain people’ come about.

I could list off which ones will jump on my directly for making this post, but I don’t want to list them off in the off chance they’ll surprise me and not respond to their Pavlovian triggers.

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Thanks for the link.

But after a brief scan of the first page, I think I’d be best served by continuing to avoid that particular thread.

I get enough craziness at work.

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Attacking an idea isn’t the same as attacking a person. Something that certain people have never figured out.

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Askeptic: “he said oh so judgingly…”

Perhaps. But when a child misbehaves in public, often that’s the place to correct the behavior.

Hamadryad: “A Special Olympian would not enter a competition against a mainstream competitor, and a new-age yaboo shouldn’t go throwing around the idea that he or she is performing “science” in a place where people actually know what science IS.”

But you don’t beat him senseless. In fact, you don’t beat him at all.

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Can’t say as I blame you.

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mswas: “Attacking an idea isn’t the same as attacking a person. Something that certain people have never figured out.”

I think the idea was attacked thoroughly. What bothered me was that the person was attacked even more thoroughly, humiliated and embarrassed. Bringing a knife to a gunfight is a serious mistake—this was the mistake KGS made. Decent people wouldn’t have shot him down in the street. This is something that other people apparently haven’t figured out as well.

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Chimera: “While you may not like the “personal” manner in which such things are handled, I very much disagree with the idea that we must dumb down the conversation and accept another person’s ill informed nonsense as if it is a valid opinion on a subject when it is clearly not so.

Not everything is equally true, all opinions are not equally valid, all ideas are not equally acceptable, all morals are not equivalent.”

I never suggested that the conversation be “dumbed down.” Just that the song be separated from the singer.

If you had suggested a thousand years ago that the Earth revolved around the sun, you’d have been attacked, ideologically as well as physically. That’s what I saw happen to KGS, and I’d like to think we’ve evolved a bit since then.

All opinions are valid, subject to the social conscience. It’s okay to hate broccoli without explanation. But not people.

Perhaps I have an idea for a perpetual motion machine. You may laugh it off, but when I turn on my car and gasoline spills out of the tank…

Finally, if you choose to live among cannibals, better to not criticize dinner lest you become it.

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OOOOOh. Judgmental AND condescending and unintentionally ironic.

One day maybe you’ll learn the meaning of false equivalence. Calling an idiot an idiot is hardly the same thing as shooting him. People want to spout nonsense I see no reason we should treat them with kid gloves. After all it is just words on a computer screen if they don’t like it they can surf somewhere else. Same goes for you. We are not here for any grand or important reason we are just wiling away some time, if it offends your sense of decency feel free to move on.

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He started the pit thread himself, specifically to attack a person. Although I believe people should have backed off once it was obvious he had been diagnosed with mental problems, until that was known he could not have been more fair game. Plus, let’s not forget we are only talking about a message board thread. Sounds like you might be taking that more seriously than you should.

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And perhaps one day you’ll learn what metaphorical speech is. And from what I’ve read, you DO feel that you are here for some grand important reason. At least, that’s what your attitudes and speech clearly communicate.

I’m relatively certain you know what the meaning of “fair game” is to the Mormons. Your use of it does not flatter you. After two pages, it was obvious what was happening and what was going to continue happen…for 15 more pages. Sad.

Oh, and welcome to America. I disagree with your opinions and I don’t feel that that compels me to “surf elsewhere.” Should I give you the same option?

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You’re kind of stupid aren’t you? That’s ok, you’re the funny kind of stupid the kind that thinks they are not.

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Are you sure you don’t mean the Scientologists?

You know, if mercilessly mocking an aura-reading spirit-seer who insists he or she is a “scientist” is wrong, I’m willing to be the wrongest wronger who ever wronged, and you are more than welcome to feel morally superior to me all you like.

I didn’t seek out the stupid, but when the stupid goes into a place MADE for flaming/arguing/mocking and then spreads its arms and says, “HELLO, I AM HERE” … well, I’m a Bad Person who shouldn’t be allowed out with the Normal People, so I go ahead and mock/point/laugh/eviscerate.

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I had no idea that “fair game” had special meaning to Mormons. Care to explain?

My feeling on KGS is that he’s enjoying himself in that Pit thread and does not feel that he has been publicly humiliated. There is no way to tell at this point how much of what he’s saying he believes and how much he’s having all of us on. You give him too little credit IMO.

Also, I wonder if being mentally ill (which he swears he is not) disqualifies a person from also being an ass. I’m not qualified to say if he’s mentally ill, though I have my opinion, but I am qualified to say that, whether or not he’s crazy, he’s definitely an ass. As such, he’s going to get as good as he gives in the Pit. He dishes it out, he should be able to take it, and he has, as far as I can tell.

Surely KGS is an adult who is capable of understanding what’s happening to him in that thread. You seem to be saying he is not, a proposition with which I’m pretty sure he’d disagree, and which sounds pretty damn patronizing actually. If your position is to be taken seriously, what are you proposing? That we all ignore him? That we humor him? That he be banned? I’m not sure what you want us to do, and also not sure how much KGS would want your help here anyway. Maybe he’ll show up and tell us.

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Yes, I meant the Scientologists. Stupid, stupipd mistake made in haste. Mea culpa.

Perhaps a demonstration is in order. Rewind to Ptolemy’s front porch.

KGS: “The Earth is NOT the center of the universe!”

SDBM: “You can’t be serious. Don’t you see the sun rise in the east and set in the west?”

KGS: “That’s only what it looks like from here.”

SDMB: “Can you support that with scientific evidence?”

KGS: “Not yet. I waiting for Copernicus.”

SDMB: “Oh, so you’ve got proof but you can’t show it to us.”

KGS: “But it’s true, I tell you.”

SDMB: “Get the torches and pitchforks, guys. This is gonna be fun.”