Nature's Call: Can you let it go easy outdoors?

[elelle]

First off, I did do a search, with the operative term "pooping", and, wow, there are a whole heaping lot of poop references on the SD. The most relevant recent one was :[b]Toolie's GD threadabout environmental ethics of human waste disposal. Doesn't quite fit the bill with my question.

In conversation recently, the subject came up of taking a poop/leak outdoors. Some just had a horror about it, that it was really denigrating, and they couldn't do it. I don't have any problem with it, and, since I go on hikes and am outdoors a lot., that's a good thing. I'm no exhibitionist, and find an appropriate spot, with cover from view, but, can have it all out and done with quick, cover with leaves, and on with life.

So, can you take a whizz/plop outdoors just fine, or, if difficult, why is that? There might be some funny stories on the subject, too, so, share if ya want.

Man, rereading this it sounds kinda weird, not meant to be; just wondering why something I see as a normal course of body events be not so easy for some folks.

[Small Hen]

Originally Posted by elelle

just wondering why something I see as a normal course of body events be not so easy for some folks.

Well, can't speak for going outdoors - not a camper or much of a hiker, so I never had to, but I can speak for this. I've got a shy bladder. This means that no matter HOW bad I have to go, I can't do it if someone I know is listening. Most of the time, strangers are no big deal, but if my friends or family are in the room, it's no pee, no poop. I've had to go so bad I was in pain, but couldn't because a family member followed me into the bathroom.

So yes, a normal bodily function can be not so easy for some.

[missred]

I don't have difficulty letting it fly whilst out camping or hiking, but, as with many other women, avoiding the shoes or pants is the hardest part.

[Reply]

While camping I have no problem doing either (though those flies sure get annoying -- how the hell do they find you a mere 15 seconds after the brown leaves the butt?!).

While in civilization... well, ahem, let's just say territory-marking is still alive and well. There's definitely a certain satisfaction =)

[kaiwik]

Living where I do, I frequently find myself miles away from indoor facilities. I no longer need porcelain to do my business. I am a woman, and for me it's spread feet, drop pants (squat) and hook an arm between legs (back to front) and pull pants forward away from the stream/poo. I never get any on myself, and a quick scattering of leaf litter covers any visible traces.

It's advisable to do a good check for bears before assuming the position, though.

[Reply]

Oh, and regarding the "cover with leaves" thing... I was always taught to dig a hole at least 6" deep and bury/cover the waste with dirt afterward so people don't accidentally step on it and so it doesn't attract wildlife. Leave no trace and all that. Is this unnecessary?

[kaiwik]

If you are referring to my post Reply, I can assure you that the chance of encountering another person's waste is pretty much nil.

[Ellef]

Originally Posted by Reply

Oh, and regarding the "cover with leaves" thing... I was always taught to dig a hole at least 6" deep and bury/cover the waste with dirt afterward so people don't accidentally step on it and so it doesn't attract wildlife. Leave no trace and all that. Is this unnecessary?

Maybe it depends where you are. I live in a part of my country that's densely populated and where footpaths in the countryside are fairly heavily used, so I bury poop to reduce the risk of an unsuspecting fellow walker encountering it. If you're in the middle of nowhere in the wilderness, I suppose you could get away with leaving it in all its glory. There is a certain satisfaction in "territory marking", as has been said upthread.

[kaiwik]

Yes, Ellef, you are correct in that I am in the middle of nowhere in the wilderness. It's not as if I were going to tinkle on the daisies in the town park.

[Dead Cat]

Never needed to poop outdoors but I can't see myself having a problem with it if the situation required it, and there was sufficient cover available. No problems with peeing outdoors.

[MissMossie]

After far too many summers at Girls Scout camp, relieving myself in the outdoors isn't an issue. I can give more details if anyone really wants.

[Hanna]

Hiker/camper here, too.

I can go #1 outdoors just fine, but I have a problem with #2. The only time I can is if I'm on a multi-day camping trip with no other possible facilities. If my body knows there is a chance I may be at, say, a gas station later, I can't do #2 outdoors. It is weird, I know.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by Small Hen

Well, can't speak for going outdoors - not a camper or much of a hiker, so I never had to, but I can speak for this. I've got a shy bladder. This means that no matter HOW bad I have to go, I can't do it if someone I know is listening. Most of the time, strangers are no big deal, but if my friends or family are in the room, it's no pee, no poop. I've had to go so bad I was in pain, but couldn't because a family member followed me into the bathroom.

So yes, a normal bodily function can be not so easy for some.

A relatively effective way to overcome 'bashful bladder':

Empty all the air out of your lungs, then do not inhale. 90% of people will pee before have to breathe, no matter who is listening/watching.

Oh, and be sure to breathe again after the fluids start to flow!

[WhyNot]

I've never been in a situation where I needed to poop outdoors. Pee, sure, that's not a problem. But I do hike to the porta-johns or composters for number 2. If I know I'm likely to be near a real bathroom later, I'll sometimes choose to hold it until then if there are only porta-johns around, thought. Those boxes are nasty. Composters are delightful; love campgrounds with composting toilets!

Like kaiwik, I've learned to keep the bottom garments out of the way. One of the nice things about hippie skirts is that, if you need to, you can squat and fan out your skirt to provide a visual cover, but if you're using this technique, you must pay attention to the slope of the ground beneath you! Wet hems suck.

[Gary T]

Requisite book, with info on how it should be done as well as amusing stories on mishaps.

Ladies have the disadvantage of lacking a built-in aiming mechanism, but this can be overcome by using a feminine funnel like this.

[Small Hen]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

A relatively effective way to overcome 'bashful bladder':

Empty all the air out of your lungs, then do not inhale. 90% of people will pee before have to breathe, no matter who is listening/watching.

Oh, and be sure to breathe again after the fluids start to flow!

Huh. I'll have to try this. I've got a drug test coming up that I was worried about, so this might really help. Thanks!

[Mama Zappa]

Originally Posted by Gary T

Requisite book, with info on how it should be done as well as amusing stories on mishaps.
...

I followed the link - and with some great trepidation clicked on the "photos" link (they were photos of a covered-wagon journey - phew!).

Then I went to amazon.com, and pasted the book title into the search box.

To be treated to such titles as:

• Up Shit Creek: A Collection of Horrifyingly True Wilderness Toilet Misadventures (wonder if Lieu contributed to that one? )
• How to Have Sex in the Woods (step 1: don't let your partner see you using either of the earlier titles!)
• Who Cut the Cheese: A Cultural History of the Fart (originally published as the intro to one of the shit-related books?)
• Sex in a Tent: A Wild Couple's Guide to Getting Naughty in Nature (not gonna be needed, unless the shit-related books give sufficient info on cleaning up)
• What's Your Poo Telling You? (it's telling you to go take a hike!)
• Pride and Prejudice and Zombies: The Classic Regency Romance - Now with Ultraviolent Zombie Mayhem! by Jane Austen and Seth Grahame-Smith (not sure what this has to do with shitting in the woods... but it's got romance AND zombies - what's not to love?)
• How to Die in the Outdoors: 100 Interesting Ways (one of which must involve getting trampled by angry deer who've come to investigate the sudden stench).

Back to the OP: I haven't. Ever. Being of a non-penis-bearing configuration, it's trickier anyway, and having crappy (er, bad choice of words there) knees, squatting AIN'T gonna happen too well. I fear I'd have to strip buck nekkid below the waste and do the nasty while standing.

In my younger days, when camping actually *happened*, I always managed to hold it while away from facilities. Nowadays, I don't even put myself in that situation. Heck, I don't even like outhouses (but will use them if absolutely forced to).

[Tom Tildrum]

Originally Posted by Reply

Oh, and regarding the "cover with leaves" thing... I was always taught to dig a hole at least 6" deep and bury/cover the waste with dirt afterward so people don't accidentally step on it and so it doesn't attract wildlife. Leave no trace and all that. Is this unnecessary?

Not always feasible. Suppose one is in a parking lot, for instance.

[Toxylon]

I much prefer pooping outdoors as compared to a bathroom. There are few moments of purer bareness and vulnerability than exposing your third eye to the wind and the sun, and pushing out a fragrant mass of cells in a helpless, primordial squat. Aftershakes in the form of a bristly / needle-y / frozen wipe tangibly connect one with the earth.

[HPL]

I've been in situations where I was getting pretty close to Yellow underwear and in those cases, when no restroom was available, I made do with what I could. Usally it means finding an alcove or something where I'm hard to see and finishing up quickly.

[muldoonthief]

Here's lieu's take on the matter.

[Nametag]

There's a "Down By The Salley Gardens" joke in there somewhere, but it's not coming out.

[imfloating]

There are 2 books currently available at Amazon titled How to shit in the woods. They contain some very useful information. As far as nbr 1 goes, I live on a boat and to me there's nothing better than hanging it over the rail. I seem to remember a movie called Rocket Gibralter where Burt Lancaster says peeing in the ocean makes you feel like a man.

[corkboard]

I can whip it out and pee, no problem. As for pooping, I have only encountered one situation in my life where it was necessary, and by that I mean, it was only a question of where, not whether.

I was mountain biking with some friends when the feeling came upon me suddenly, and we were miles from civilization. I biked up ahead a ways, hopped off the bike, ran behind a tree, whipped off my shorts and underwear, and unloaded. It was, well, explosive. I think if I had ridden for another 50 feet, I wouldn't have made it. Anyway, I cleaned up as well as I could using my underwear, dropped it atop the pile as sort of a warning not to tread there, and biked away.

I'm not proud of leaving my underwear sitting there, but I had nothing to carry it back in. It was completely destroyed.

We're going camping and hiking at the end of the summer, so I may again get the opportunity to see if under normal circumstances I would have any reservations about it, but hopefully there won't be a need for it.

[Clothahump]

Originally Posted by elelle

So, can you take a whizz/plop outdoors just fine, or, if difficult, why is that?

I'm a geocacher. Although I plan as best as I can and hit the john before I hit the door, sometimes Mother Nature just doesn't go along with the game plan. That's why I have several travel packs of Kleenex in my caching bag. And I am totally amazed how the flies can be on the shit in three seconds flat.

But I will admit that I take perverse delight in peeing as high up on a tree as I can. I just know some dog is going to come by and think, "DAMN!" when he gets a whiff.

[TroubleAgain]

Well, being female, I have the issue mentioned above by other female posters--namely, making sure not to get any on me when peeing. I have had to #2 in the woods once, and off the side of a boat once. In the boat, I had no choice in the matter--I was going to go whether I wanted to or not. ::shudder:: In the woods, I had the luxury of my husband to stand guard, and a convenient tree-trunk to use as a toilet seat. Fortunately, we always carry TP.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by Small Hen

Huh. I'll have to try this. I've got a drug test coming up that I was worried about, so this might really help. Thanks!

Let me know if it works for you.

Remember, you will feel uncomfortably oxygen-deprived before the sphincter says "to hell with it, I'm opening up". But not dangerously so.

ETA: Oh, and you will remain continent of bowel contents with this approach. That sphincter opens much later in the process, and only if you continue breath-holding waaaay past the point of bladder-emptying.

[elelle]

Thanks for replies: Muldoon, I hadn't seen lieu's canoe thread--- wonderful!

And Qadgop, that's a nice bit of advice. What's the physical mechanism there?

To gals whizzing in the woods worried about splashback; if you dig a small hole, sans the leaf litter layer, there is much less splash. It soaks on in to the dirt, and, you're helping to fertilize the plants there. I always cover it back up, not sure if that's an instinctive impulse or social manners.

[NinjaChick]

I've done quite a bit of backpacking and always had a terribly unpleasant time relieving myself anywhere but a bathroom where I am alone. Public bathrooms are unpleasant, and I can't for the life of me understand how guys can use urinals without, y'know, walls surrounding them. In the woods, the privacy issue is compounded by actually finding a suitable place - right slope, no prickly/irritating plants, but still enough dense vegetation between you and the trail. Plus then there's the wiping situation, which is always a pain (either you're gross and incredibly irresponsible and bury the tissue, or you're unbelievably gross and pack it out...ick). And then you may not be able to properly wash your hands, so you just have to settle for dousing them in Purell, which is really pretty much the worst part.

I don't need an instruction manual to do it, but really, if I'm out hiking or backpacking, it waits until the last possible moment.

[Jenny Linsky]

I rather like shitting in the woods. It took practice, but I have no problem at all. On the other hand, my home toilet is an outhouse without a door. I may be an outlier.

A lot of times when I'm backpacking, it seems like I'm rushing to get somewhere, or to set up camp, or get ready to go, but shitting gives you a chance to get out by yourself in nature and spend some time experiencing the wilderness. Of course, changing a tampon in a snowstorm is more of a wilderness experience than I usually need, but that's how it goes. I don't mind packing out my toilet paper. I've never done anything different, so I just have a "poo bag" set up with small ziplocs of fresh toilet paper and purell, and other bags for used paper.

I recently bought a Freshette, which is still kind of weird to use, but it's so nice to not take off your pants in the cold.

[T. Slothrop]

A good friend of mine is a very outdoorsy kind of guy. I've known him since we were in the boy scouts thirty years ago. Since then he's been a LRRP (Long Range Recon Patrol) in Viet Nam, and a Forest Ranger and an Army Reservist. Now he's a farmer/rancher. He tells me he can only go camping for three days if his wife goes along because she can only hold # 2 that long.

[Reply]

Originally Posted by NinjaChick

Plus then there's the wiping situation, which is always a pain (either you're gross and incredibly irresponsible and bury the tissue, or you're unbelievably gross and pack it out...ick). And then you may not be able to properly wash your hands, so you just have to settle for dousing them in Purell, which is really pretty much the worst part.

I find that doggie poop bags work really well for this (they even have non-petroleum-based, compostable/biodegradable ones!), especially if you use a drysack (like the SealLine kayaking bags) as an outer trash bag. The black doggie bag hides the sight and smell nicely and the outer bag is there to catch any breaks (hasn't been an issue yet) and is easily cleaned and re-used.

[CutterJohn]

the back door is 5 feet away. The bathroom is up a flight of stairs. You do the math.

I don't have a problem taking a shit outside either, but the logistical difficulties of squatting with pants pulled makes me prefer a regular toilet, or a toilet seat on a frame outside. If I were naked it'd be a lot easier though.

[Taenia spp.]

Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum

Not always feasible. Suppose one is in a parking lot, for instance.

You wouldn't be referring to this gem, would you?

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by elelle

And Qadgop, that's a nice bit of advice. What's the physical mechanism there?

My educated WAG is that as oxygen saturation drops, the body decides it's not worth the metabolic effort of keeping that particular sphincter closed, especially since one level of the nervous system is trying to open it up anyway.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

My educated WAG is that as oxygen saturation drops, the body decides it's not worth the metabolic effort of keeping that particular sphincter closed, especially since one level of the nervous system is trying to open it up anyway.

Interesting. If it were to happen to an animal, caught and being strangled by another animal, we might call it a survival strategy: foul yourself, make yourself smell like a dead thing, and the predator might decide you wouldn't be so yummy after all.

[Jackmannii]

A very timely story came out today. The Sherpa who holds the record for most climbs of Everest is going for the summit again - but a major part of his rationale for the climb is environmental:

"Yet the expedition that he hopes will take him to the top of Everest for the 19th time – his nearest rival, Chhewang Nima, has reached the summit a mere 15 occasions – is inspired by a different concern; the increasing environmental threats to a mountain the sherpas consider sacred. Litter and rubbish discarded by the dozens of commercial expeditions that attempt to climb the mountain every year, have turned parts of Everest into a high-altitude dump. Left-over climbing equipment, litter, and human excrement that fails to decay have transformed this once-pristine Himalayan landscape.

He said that he and his team members would be carrying hundreds of bags that can be used to carry excrement and other rubbish and transport it down the mountain so it can be disposed of properly."

And you people can't even hike your leavings back for proper disposal? Shame.

[Quasimodem]

I can't even let it go easy indoors!

Let a guy stand next to me at a urinal and I'll be there for an hour!

I may even pretend to piss and just hold it till I get home!

Because of the meds I have to take, I find it easier to sit down and piss. (And yes, I know they make fun of me on SNL, but it just "comes" quicker that way.)

But the questions was "outdoors" wasn't it?

Yeah, when I'm cycling I can go easier, if I have to pee - but not if I have to scheisse.

Just something about my dick and my balls dangling and me squatting...... I don't know, man. Maybe it's a Freudian thing.. Something is gonna chomp on me, I just know it!.....

Q

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

Interesting. If it were to happen to an animal, caught and being strangled by another animal, we might call it a survival strategy: foul yourself, make yourself smell like a dead thing, and the predator might decide you wouldn't be so yummy after all.

Voluntary breath-holding doesn't reach the level of strangulation. Nowhere close.

And I always felt that the post-hoc theory of defecation at near-death being a 'survival strategy' was really rather flawed; All sphincters let go at the time of death. Tensed muscles relax when a creature dies. That's just physiology. What's the survival advantage for your gall bladder tending to dump its contents into the small bowel at death?

[Quasimodem]

Apparently, I misunderstood the question.

Again.

Sorry.

I tought y'all were talking about being able to evacuate your bowels and kidneys comfortably in the woods.

TMI seems to follow me around.

Or maybe I just cut to the chase?


Q

[elelle]

Quasi, you answered the question as I intended the gist, and, I hadn't thought of a guys dangly bits being vulnerable in the wild, so that added to the thread, thanks.

About "packing it all out": in Jackmannii's example of a big ol' mess in the Himalayas, where there isn't decomposition, yep, pack it out. But, in normal circumstances, your scat is nourishing the environment, so no need to if off the trail and covered. TP also disintegrates pretty quickly, so just cover with leaves, a couple of rains will take care of it. Again, poop is good fertilizer, so I think that taking it with you is overly, um, anal, and not in accord with natural process.

I'm really curious about Qadgop's breathing technique, and why it works, and will try it to see what happens.

[NinjaChick]

Originally Posted by elelle

Quasi, you answered the question as I intended the gist, and, I hadn't thought of a guys dangly bits being vulnerable in the wild, so that added to the thread, thanks.

About "packing it all out": in Jackmannii's example of a big ol' mess in the Himalayas, where there isn't decomposition, yep, pack it out. But, in normal circumstances, your scat is nourishing the environment, so no need to if off the trail and covered. TP also disintegrates pretty quickly, so just cover with leaves, a couple of rains will take care of it. Again, poop is good fertilizer, so I think that taking it with you is overly, um, anal, and not in accord with natural process.

I'm really curious about Qadgop's breathing technique, and why it works, and will try it to see what happens.

It's not awful to bury your TP, but it's absolutely not ideal. A park ranger once told me that they tell people it's okay to bury TP in the backcountry - assuming your scathole is deep enough and well-covered - because otherwise a lot of people will burn it, and they really prefer as few open fires as possible.

As for poop being a good fertilizer...true, but A) it doesn't naturally occur there and B) a lot of times people aren't great about going far enough from the campsite/trail, or don't dig deep enough holes, and...ew. Especially if you're in a national or state park that gets pretty heavy traffic, that's adding a lot of great fertilizer in a way that isn't really natural. I mean, if you have to go you have to go, but it's not like you're keeping the trees alive with your crap.

[Quasimodem]

Okay, stay with me on this one Qadgop and everyone: because no offense is meant!

Whenever I read a thread that has my "Q" - brother's post within it, I always know that unlike me, he has considered the question carefully and proffers his answer intelligently.

I. on the other hand, tend to stumble through the "brush", swing my sword at anything that might hurt "my kids" and I don't always "think" as I should, and I am sorry about that.

I just look for the "hurt" and try to fix it, if I can.

Thanks

Quasi (Bill)

[elelle]

Originally Posted by NinjaChick

It's not awful to bury your TP, but it's absolutely not ideal. A park ranger once told me that they tell people it's okay to bury TP in the backcountry - assuming your scathole is deep enough and well-covered - because otherwise a lot of people will burn it, and they really prefer as few open fires as possible.

As for poop being a good fertilizer...true, but A) it doesn't naturally occur there and B) a lot of times people aren't great about going far enough from the campsite/trail, or don't dig deep enough holes, and...ew. Especially if you're in a national or state park that gets pretty heavy traffic, that's adding a lot of great fertilizer in a way that isn't really natural. I mean, if you have to go you have to go, but it's not like you're keeping the trees alive with your crap.

I have to disagree here. With TP, OK, I guess you can figure people's use. For me, it's as little as possible, like 4 squares for a normal crap. That is easy to decompose in the wild. If people are using a yard per wipe, well, they just need to know to use less.

As to human poop not being something that "naturally occurs" there, and therefore needs to be carted off---- umm, no, really. I don't think a local ecosystem distinguishes between local and non-local scat source; it gets broken down in the same manner, and serves to fertilize regardless.

Yep, with high traffic areas, you don't want crap littered trails, but, off trail, human poop is just fine and "natural".

[Jackmannii]

An update to the Mount Everest story: the Sherpa who's in second place for most climbs has just announced that later this year, he will undertake another climb of Everest. His team will attempt to break the record for most excrement hauled down off the mountain.

This could get ugly.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Small Hen

I've had to go so bad I was in pain, but couldn't because a family member followed me into the bathroom.

Did you consider saying something like, "Get the fuck out of the bathroom"? Or did I somehow miss that you're talking about a public restroom?

[Ol'Gaffer]

No cavers here? Imagine going into a bag and then carting it out with you...extremely sensitive environments and all that.