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  #1  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:38 AM
Gus_Handsome Gus_Handsome is offline
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Am I Required by Law To Show My Receipt When I'm Leaving Wal-Mart?

I go through the check-out at Wal-Mart, pay for my purchases,
and as I'm heading out the door to the parking lot, a Wal-Mart "Greeter" intercepts me and says "Sir, I'd like to see your receipt for your purchases."
(before I leave the store)

Am I legally obliged to show and have her go through my purchases or can I say "no thanks" and keep walking?

Thanks
Gus

PS--> I always show and am respectful when they ask because I understand they are trying to help curb shoplifting, but I wonder what would happen if they had to deal with an uncooperative person?
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  #2  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:42 AM
Covered_In_Bees! Covered_In_Bees! is offline
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No you are not legally required to stop and fork over your receipt. Yes you can say "No thanks." and keep walking. Though if they truly believe you stole something they are allowed to get security, who does have the authority to hold you there while they inspect your goods. I believe.

The greeters are not security personnel, so they have no true authority over you but have the ability to call the people with authority. So walk passed them at your own risk.

EDIT: And while I don't have any citations handy, I have seen others here provide citations that back my claims here. So I'm just tiding you over until someone more official gets here.

Last edited by Covered_In_Bees!; 09-28-2009 at 02:43 AM..
  #3  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:40 AM
Magiver Magiver is offline
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The answer to that is: "YES, I'll show it to you but only at the refund desk".

Last edited by Magiver; 09-28-2009 at 04:41 AM..
  #4  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:55 AM
Francis Vaughan Francis Vaughan is offline
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The answer will vary all over the world, but typically no. Nor does security have any additional rights. They are just ordinary people in a uniform. Nor do they typically have a right to inspect bags, even when there is a sign saying you accept that as a condition of entry. (This one probably depends greatly upon local case law, and may vary quite considerably.) Here in Oz, the one thing they can do is simply say, "Thank you sir, I'm sorry you won't cooperate with my request. You are henceforth banned from this shop." And that is enforcable. But again, the world is a big place.
  #5  
Old 09-28-2009, 05:09 AM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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I've only been asked one time for my receipt at Walmart and that is when I bought a TV set. Though the box clearly had a "paid" sticker on it, the greeter asked to see my receipt then let me through.

I usually buy food and pick up my meds at Walmart, so I rarely have any large items and I've never been asked nor has anyone prompted me to show my receipt.

I see them do it for larger items.

My guess it's less for the shoplifiting by consumers but rather a way to see if the clerks are ringing up large (thus costly) items under different codes for friends and such. You know the old replace the UPC code for an item of $10.00 and stick it on a $300.00 item and walk out the store. With a bit of colusion via the cashier it works great, unless somene checks the receipt and sees your box with a $300.00 TV set is rung up as at $10.00 iron, due to a UPC switch or the cashier keying in another amount
  #6  
Old 09-28-2009, 05:23 AM
garygnu garygnu is offline
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Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
...Nor do they typically have a right to inspect bags, even when there is a sign saying you accept that as a condition of entry...
Club stores in the US, such as Costco, that are not open to the public without membership, can and do include receipt inspection as part of the membership agreement.
  #7  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:01 PM
hellpaso hellpaso is offline
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Depending on my mood, I have been known to tell them "Sure--I just stole $300 worth of food, Fuck-head". They then look scared and back off. I find it stupid and insulting to have some pathetic soul working for minimum wage to confront me on whether or not I've paid for my items. The items are obviously packaged and I have a receipt in my hand. I've never stolen anything, but wouldn't a thief attempt to conceal the stolen items? Or are thieves so blatant they would attempt to stash the stolen items amongst the paid for items?

Last edited by hellpaso; 09-28-2009 at 12:02 PM.. Reason: sorry--this is a pet peeve and why I rarely go to Walmart!
  #8  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:18 PM
IAmNotSpartacus IAmNotSpartacus is offline
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Originally Posted by garygnu View Post
Club stores in the US, such as Costco, that are not open to the public without membership, can and do include receipt inspection as part of the membership agreement.
This is correct as far as I know.

The fastest way to make the twits at the non-membership stores leave you alone is to ask if you are being detained. Which is essentially what they are attempting do. Store management has instructed them to leave customers who pull this line alone since it could easily evolve into a false imprisonment, absent reasonable suspicion (or is the threshold PC??).

This is based on my understanding of California law, IANAL and YMMV by jurisdiction.
  #9  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:20 PM
IAmNotSpartacus IAmNotSpartacus is offline
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Originally Posted by hellpaso View Post
Depending on my mood, I have been known to tell them "Sure--I just stole $300 worth of food, Fuck-head".
This is a pretty silly thing to do IMO, when you say this you have essentially given them free probable cause to detain you until the police arrive to sort the matter out since you are freely admitting to a crime.

And you certainly aren't making yourself look like the upstanding citizen you'd like the police to think you are when they do eventually arrive.
  #10  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:35 PM
Skammer Skammer is offline
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I don't get it -- why is everyone so offended to be asked to show a receipt? I'm glad they're trying to find shoplifters, it keeps prices down. I'd be concerned if they didn't bother.
  #11  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:42 PM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Originally Posted by hellpaso View Post
Depending on my mood, I have been known to tell them "Sure--I just stole $300 worth of food, Fuck-head". They then look scared and back off. I find it stupid and insulting to have some pathetic soul working for minimum wage to confront me on whether or not I've paid for my items. The items are obviously packaged and I have a receipt in my hand. I've never stolen anything, but wouldn't a thief attempt to conceal the stolen items? Or are thieves so blatant they would attempt to stash the stolen items amongst the paid for items?
Actually, yes, they are. The basic scheme is to come in the store with a store bag in your pocket, fill it up, and walk out the front door.

FWIW, I sometimes "steal" stuff from my local grocery store without even intending to : I routinely put heavy objects (like packs of beer/soda) in my back pack rather than my hand cart (it's a small store, they don't have trolleys), and dig them back out when I reach the checkout line. Sometimes I clean forget about it, and only realize my mistake when I'm home. Still, with all the cameras, and the big burly guys in suits too small for them, nobody ever caught on the fact that I came in with an empty back pack and come out with a full one.
So, the point is : sometimes you can be darn obvious about your thieving, and nobody'll get any wiser.
  #12  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:46 PM
Kimmy_Gibbler Kimmy_Gibbler is offline
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The question is not: Am I legally required to show my receipt when leaving Wal-Mart? It is rather: Can Wal-Mart legally detain me for failing to show a receipt upon request?

At common law, there existed the shopkeeper's privilege. This authorized a store proprietor (or it's agents, whether called "Security Personnel" or "Greeters") to detain and investigate (but not to search) a person on or recently on the premises of the establishment when that person is reasonably suspected of shoplifting merchandise. Ordinarily, a private party cannot detain a person against that person's will lest they become liable for false imprisonment.

Subsequently, this principle has been codified into statutory law. In Illinois, it is at 720 ILCS 5/16A-5 and -6. This sections allow any merchant with reasonable grounds to suspect a person of retail theft to detain and investigate in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable length of time as well to summon a peace officer to take custody of the suspected thief (although this is not required, the merchant may also merely turn the person loose). It further absolves the store of liability that would otherwise be incurred for detentions conducted in pursuance of the statute.

A front-door dragnet plainly does not entail the particularized suspicion contemplated by the common law exception or the statute. So, the question is whether refusing to submit to a receipt check gives a merchant reasonable grounds to detain a customer. In the Fourth Amendment context, this question is settled: refusing to give consent to a search cannot alone give rise to probable cause. Although Wal-Mart is a private entity, and not an organ of the government, and the civil liberty interests are accordingly much diminished, I think the statute would be upended if it were held that refusing a shopkeeper's request to submit to inspection afforded reasonable grounds for a detention.

However, if there were notice, such as a sign at the entrance saying "Customers subject to receipt check upon exiting store," then the analysis would be different. Consent would be given impliedly by entering the store.

Finally, stores are a bit abashed about relying on these rights for various reasons. First, it occasions terrible publicity (particularly if they accidentally target a Consumerist-reading GenXer yuppie instead of the usual poor people that store dicks hassle). Second, if the detention/investigation exceeds the limits of reasonable manner or duration, tort liability ensues. But, don't mistake this for saying it never happens, here is one case where an Illinois alderman (Berwyn, so probably gross) ran afoul of a Wal-Mart receipt check: News article. We'll see whether Ald. Phelan wins.

Last edited by Kimmy_Gibbler; 09-28-2009 at 12:47 PM..
  #13  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:49 PM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is online now
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This practice apparently arouses strong emotions in some people; we've had at least one long and heated thread about it before.

I think the answer from that thread is that you can refuse to show your receipt, and they can't detain you without probable cause, but they could conceivably ban you from shopping there in the future if you refuse to cooperate with their anti-theft procedures.
  #14  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:54 PM
Dante Dante is offline
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I've never understood people who fuss at the receipt check. One of my facebook friends posted an absolute diatribe about how her rights were being trampled on, and how she'd never been so insulted in her life, she was going to call Sam Walton, blah blah blah.

Newsflash: The checker doesn't know you. The checker doesn't care about you. The checker isn't making a judgment about you. And no, the checker can't just "tell" that you're not a thief.

Just show your receipt and you'll be on your way. Sheesh. The things people will get their panties in a twist about is amazing.
  #15  
Old 09-28-2009, 12:54 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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Originally Posted by Skammer View Post
I don't get it -- why is everyone so offended to be asked to show a receipt? I'm glad they're trying to find shoplifters, it keeps prices down. I'd be concerned if they didn't bother.
First of all, it takes time. The main reason I don't like showing a receipt is that I value my time--and I'm not that interested in helping the store out when it meaningfully inconveniences me. So I usually skip when there is one person on the door, and a line of 4/5 people waiting for the receipt checker.


Beyond that, I'm rarely offended when they ask. They have the right to ask. I understand how it might offend some people, but I'm not one of them.

On the other hand, I do take offense when a receipt checker gets pushy, or demands I show my receipt. Here's my thinking:

If I show a checker my receipt, I am doing the store a favor--I don't have to, and it helps them out, while not doing a whole lot for me. As I said above, if it's not a lot of bother for me, I'll usually be happy to do so (as I would with anyone else who asks me to do something that doesn't bother me much, and helps them out substantially).

On the other hand, if anyone, not just a receipt checker, is obnoxious when asking me to do them a favor, I'm not likely to help them out--whether they're asking me for a big thing or a little thing. Receipt checkers don't annoy me because they're receipt checkers---they annoy me when they're rude or obnoxious when are asking me to do something I don't have to do, and see little benefit from----an approach that doesn't make me minded to help them out.
  #16  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:02 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Oh, for God's sake, you're going to bust the chops of some minimum wage flunky? If you have a complaint, take it to management. Don't give the Wal-Mart floor clerks a hard time.
  #17  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Bearflag70 Bearflag70 is offline
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Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post

I think the answer from that thread is that you can refuse to show your receipt, and they can't detain you without probable cause, but they could conceivably ban you from shopping there in the future if you refuse to cooperate with their anti-theft procedures.
That's the thrust of it in one sentence with the caveat that Kimmy_Gibbler mentioned: The mere refusal to submit to a random security check does or should not, itself, give rise to probable cause to detain.
  #18  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:11 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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Oh, for God's sake, you're going to bust the chops of some minimum wage flunky? If you have a complaint, take it to management. Don't give the Wal-Mart floor clerks a hard time.
I'm not going to bust their chops if they're rude. I'm going to say "no, thank you" entirely politely, or in more extreme cases, just ignore them. There's no reason to be rude. Being polite is also why I generally comply with a request to show my receipt when it doesn't take up much of my time.

However, being polite, or "not busting their chops" doesn't equate to "complying with a request to do something I don't have to when it is made in a rude or obnoxious manner, or when doing so will take up an unreasonable amount of my time."

Last edited by whorfin; 09-28-2009 at 01:12 PM..
  #19  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:15 PM
Lanzy Lanzy is offline
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I don't like it because the checker isn't actually doing anything. I acidently had an item I didn't pay for in the cart, checker didn't notice. I brought it back. I had an item left at the register, checker didn't catch it, and when I went back they would not give it to me as I "could" have left the original item outside.

Now I just walk on by with no acknowedgement they even asked a question.
  #20  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:17 PM
constanze constanze is offline
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Originally Posted by whorfin View Post
If I show a checker my receipt, I am doing the store a favor--I don't have to, and it helps them out, while not doing a whole lot for me.
1) Do you understand that the reason for the check is to try and curb theft?

2) Do you understand that if more theft occurred, prices would likely rise, because the store has to recoup the loss somehow? (Even if they are insured, the insurance rates will rise).

While I'm generally happy to bash CEOs for taking huge salaries instead of lowering prices, the normal trade like Walmart isn't this place: the profit margins are about 1 to 2,5 %. So even small things like theft can really hit.

3) Therefore, you are doing yourselves and all other honest shoppers a favour, too, yes or no?

As for taking too much time ... please. You spend half an hour or more walking through the store getting your stuff, 5 to 20 minutes in line at the cashier, depending on how busy it is, but the 5 min. for the receipt checking is too much? Really, get a grip or plan differently.
  #21  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:32 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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You dont' seem to understand my point. You're offering several reasons why it helps the store out for me to show my receipt, (admitted), and ways it might indirectly benefit me (sure. )

That doesn't change the fact that I don't have to show my receipt, and that I am helping the store more than it is helping me by doing so. If I think the benefit to me is enough, I'll do it. If the cost is low enough, I'll do it. But nothing of what you say changes it from my choice to my obligation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by constanze View Post
1) Do you understand that the reason for the check is to try and curb theft?
Yup. It's something they ought to want to do. The store is better off from preventing theft. I am not, directly.

Doesn't make me obligated to help them out. The store is certainly not obligated to pay me the benefit they get.

Quote:
2) Do you understand that if more theft occurred, prices would likely rise, because the store has to recoup the loss somehow? (Even if they are insured, the insurance rates will rise).
Yup. they're entitled to raise their prices if they want. They won't--it will probably hurt them against their competitors. But it doesn't matter--it doesn't make me obligatedto help the store out.

Quote:

While I'm generally happy to bash CEOs for taking huge salaries instead of lowering prices, the normal trade like Walmart isn't this place: the profit margins are about 1 to 2,5 %. So even small things like theft can really hit.
And that is my problem because?

Quote:
3) Therefore, you are doing yourselves and all other honest shoppers a favour, too, yes or no?
Not my problem. I may feel like doing them a favor. I often do them a favor. But I have no obligation to do so.

Quote:
As for taking too much time ... please. You spend half an hour or more walking through the store getting your stuff, 5 to 20 minutes in line at the cashier, depending on how busy it is, but the 5 min. for the receipt checking is too much? Really, get a grip or plan differently
First of all, that's five extra minutes--five minutes I wouldn't otherwise spend there. It doesn't matter if I spend three hours in the store--that's my choice. If I choose to spend another five minutes, that's fine. If the delay is something necessary (like checking out), that's fine.

If someone else makes me spend five minutes doing something I don't have to do, and don't want to do, that's not fine. They can ask me to do that--but I don't owe them the five minutes. If they want to demand it, they can pay me for my time.

Furthermore, I'm not telling you you should value your time more. That's your call. You don't get to tell me to value my time less. I have stuff I'd rather do than taking five minutes to help the store out. What right do they have to make me choose to help them out rather than do the stuff I'd rather do?

Last edited by whorfin; 09-28-2009 at 01:33 PM..
  #22  
Old 09-28-2009, 01:55 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
Oh, for God's sake, you're going to bust the chops of some minimum wage flunky? If you have a complaint, take it to management. Don't give the Wal-Mart floor clerks a hard time.
They started it -- I was just calmly walking out after making my purchases when they rudely interrupted me. So I have no obligation to be polite to them. And the I was just following orders defense doesn't play in court, nor with me.

And they chose to take a job that includes rudely accosting customers -- they have to expect a hard time. The same way I don't feel any obligation to be polite to telemarketers. I accept that they're only trying to make a living, and in a low-paying job, but that job involves interrupting me, and (usually) telling me lies to try to sucker me into buying something. If you accept a job doing shady things, you will be treated as shady.
  #23  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:03 PM
garygnu garygnu is offline
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Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
They started it -- I was just calmly walking out after making my purchases when they rudely interrupted me...
Do you consider the very act of asking to check your receipt to be rude? The vast majority of the time for me they are quite polite about it.
  #24  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:10 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Do you consider the very act of asking to check your receipt to be rude? The vast majority of the time for me they are quite polite about it.
Yes.
Don't interrupt others was something my parents taught me as a child.
  #25  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:13 PM
Bearflag70 Bearflag70 is offline
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Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
They started it -- I was just calmly walking out after making my purchases when they rudely interrupted me. So I have no obligation to be polite to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Yes.
Don't interrupt others was something my parents taught me as a child.
I'd hate to see what happens when someone asks you to please pass the salt during dinner.
  #26  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:22 PM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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I absolutely love how this is the "right" that the lumpenproletariat of middle america chooses to get indignant over.


Get. the. fuck. over. it. It's 5 seconds - you're not doing them a favor and they're not trampling over your rights.
  #27  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:25 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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I'd hate to see what happens when someone asks you to please pass the salt during dinner.
Don't be ridiculous.
Do you really think the friends & family I am dining with are the same as some Wal-Mart drone I have never seen before?
  #28  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:34 PM
Bearflag70 Bearflag70 is offline
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Don't be ridiculous.
Do you really think the friends & family I am dining with are the same as some Wal-Mart drone I have never seen before?
j/k. relax.
  #29  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:01 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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Originally Posted by garygnu View Post
Do you consider the very act of asking to check your receipt to be rude? The vast majority of the time for me they are quite polite about it.
I don't see it as rude to ask politely---as long as asking is all it is.

I'm not sure I'd say the vast majority have been polite to me when asking, but certainly a majority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
I absolutely love how this is the "right" that the lumpenproletariat of middle america chooses to get indignant over.
Well, I'm not indignant. But i am amused by the hordes of people who seem to care so much that I value my time differently than they do--and seem to get indignant that I don't feel obligated to do things I don't have to.

Quote:
Get. the. fuck. over. it. It's 5 seconds - you're not doing them a favor and they're not trampling over your rights.
It's not at all clear what you mean. If you mean I'm not doing them a favor because I have to show my receipt, you're just plain wrong (outside of costco and membership agreements).

If what you're saying is it doesn't burden me much, that's true. That's the principal reason that I'm often willing to do them a favor--because it helps them out, and doesn't bother me much.

That, however, simply doesn't change the fact that I am doing the store a favor by showing my receipt. The store is checking receipts to protect it from theft.
It doesn't matter if it takes one second or one hour--the store is asking me to do something I don't have to do. I will only do it if I feel like it. I often do--but that's not the point.

If it takes an hour, and you feel like taking that hour to help the store out, that's your choice. Good for you. If it takes a second, and you, or I don't want to do it, what right does it (or anyone) have to make us?

Last edited by whorfin; 09-28-2009 at 03:03 PM..
  #30  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:15 PM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Originally Posted by whorfin View Post
Well, I'm not indignant. But i am amused by the hordes of people who seem to care so much that I value my time differently than they do--and seem to get indignant that I don't feel obligated to do things I don't have to.
I learned long ago that anyone who bleats about their time being valuable has a sorely mistaken view of their own worth.

Quote:
It's not at all clear what you mean. If you mean I'm not doing them a favor because I have to show my receipt, you're just plain wrong (outside of costco and membership agreements).


Favor connotes goodwill - you're doing it because you're nice and you expect recognition of such. I'm suggetsing that "doing something because you're nice" and "doing something because you're legally obligated to do so" are not the only two reasons why people do things in society - there is a third reason: because it's not a big deal.

do you really feel like you're doing a stranger a favor when they ask you for directions or you hold a door open for someone? would you speak of such an occurence in those terms - as if they owed you some sort of gratitude? like i said - inflated view of one's worth.


you're not being nice to wal mart, and you're not giving them anything when you let them look at your receipt for 3 seconds - it's just one of those de minimis acts that has no cost to it whatsoever, and no expectation or reality of some sort of social payoff.

Last edited by Rumor_Watkins; 09-28-2009 at 03:16 PM..
  #31  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:31 PM
pan1 pan1 is offline
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No, you are not legally obligated to show your receipt as you leave Wal-Mart.

The Greeter likewise is not legally obligated to allow store merchandise to leave the store without proof it's been paid for.

They cannot legally detain you. They can assume the goods in your possession are theirs until proof otherwise is shown. They can keep the cart and it's contents and let you go. Ditto, store bags you are carrying. Your purse, they can't touch without formal accusations of a crime and a warrant or permission.

They cannot search your person without permission or a warrant - even if they call police and they cannot detain you at all without accusing you of a crime - at which time they can hold you while they call police.

Last edited by pan1; 09-28-2009 at 03:34 PM..
  #32  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is offline
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9 times out of 10 I don't mind and will happily provide the receipt. There is that one time out of ten were it becomes an inconvenience. Like at Wal-Mart were the line of people waiting to get out is twice as long as any one line at the cashier.

the last time that happened, I side stepped them, and when I was given dirty looks by the bovines with nothing better to do than wait in an optional line to get the heck out, I educated them briefly about their rights. About 4 people quickly joined me on the way out, the rest looked confused, and the Wal-Mart employees looked upset, but did nothing.
  #33  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Contrapuntal Contrapuntal is offline
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Originally Posted by pan1 View Post
No, you are not legally obligated to show your receipt as you leave Wal-Mart.

The Greeter likewise is not legally obligated to allow store merchandise to leave the store without proof it's been paid for.
He is absent reasonable suspicion that it hasn't. See Kimmy's post above.
  #34  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is offline
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No, you are not legally obligated to show your receipt as you leave Wal-Mart.

The Greeter likewise is not legally obligated to allow store merchandise to leave the store without proof it's been paid for.
I'm fairly certain that this is incorrect, but I would appreciate a cite showing otherwise.
  #35  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:47 PM
bucketybuck bucketybuck is offline
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I think people are getting bogged down, focusing on the 2 second flash of the receipt to a smiling greeter as they leave, when I suspect the OP was thinking of the implications of dealing with Ogre store guards who may think they can detain you at their whim.

Put me down with those who would show my receipt if it doesnt inconvenience me too much, though rest assured, the bar for that inconvenience is set pretty fucking low.
  #36  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:53 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
I learned long ago that anyone who bleats about their time being valuable has a sorely mistaken view of their own worth.
Think what you will--I don't much care what you think of my worth. And whatever you think of it, doesn't rebut my point--without regard to how much my time is worth in absolute terms, if I feel I have things I'd rather do with my time than help walmart out, why should I help them?


Quote:
Favor connotes goodwill - you're doing it because you're nice and you expect recognition of such. I'm suggetsing that "doing something because you're nice" and "doing something because you're legally obligated to do so" are not the only two reasons why people do things in society - there is a third reason: because it's not a big deal.
You're reading something into my argument that isn't there, and then trying to rebut me based on what you've read in.

To me, doing someone a favor doesn't require recognition. In this case, the store is asking me to do something that helps them out, and doesn't benefit me, when I have no obligation to do so, and are not offering me anything to do so. What they are asking me to do is to do them a favor.

If I asked for something like that, I think I'd naturally say "can you do me a favor?"

Also, I don't seem to be suggesting anywhere that it not being a big deal isn't a reason to show a receipt. I have said repeatedly that I do generally show my receipt when it's not a big deal.

However, I'd push back on you saying it's not because I'm nice. In fact, the very reason I help people out when it's not a big deal is because I'm nice.

Quote:
do you really feel like you're doing a stranger a favor when they ask you for directions or you hold a door open for someone? would you speak of such an occurence in those terms - as if they owed you some sort of gratitude? like i said - inflated view of one's worth.
In the first, sure. They're asking me for help, and I'm providing. In the second, nope--nobody asked me to.

Again, with the proviso that when I say a "favor" I do not imply an obligation of gratitude.

On the other hand, let me pose a question for you: Would you give directions to someone who says "You! Give me directions!" or someone who asks you for ten minutes of directions when you will be late to something if you do?


Quote:
you're not being nice to wal mart, and you're not giving them anything when you let them look at your receipt for 3 seconds - it's just one of those de minimis acts that has no cost to it whatsoever, and no expectation or reality of some sort of social payoff.
Again, I'm not asking for a social payoff. I'm saying "absent a payoff, or an obligation, they have no reason to complain if I say 'no.'"


More importantly, have you ever been to wal-mart? Sometimes it takes three seconds. Sometimes there's a line for the receipt checker, and it takes a few minutes.
  #37  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:59 PM
Bearflag70 Bearflag70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan1 View Post
The Greeter likewise is not legally obligated to allow store merchandise to leave the store without proof it's been paid for.

... They can assume the goods in your possession are theirs until proof otherwise is shown. They can keep the cart and it's contents and let you go. Ditto, store bags you are carrying. Your purse, they can't touch without formal accusations of a crime and a warrant or permission.
I would file this under "making stuff up."

Last edited by Bearflag70; 09-28-2009 at 04:03 PM..
  #38  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:00 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
I'm fairly certain that this is incorrect, but I would appreciate a cite showing otherwise.
The fundamental error in the post you quote is the belief that it's store merchandise. It's not. I paid for it. They have my money, I have the stuff I bought. The transaction is over. It's not store merchandise--it's my property at that point.

As a more general response: Has wal-mart ever asked you to prove you own your shoes? They sell shoes--let's imagine in the brand you're wearing that day. You have shoes coming out. Why shouldn't you have to prove you bought the shoes. How about underwear? If Wal-Mart truly has the right to demand that I prove that I own my property, why stop with the stuff in my shopping bag.
  #39  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whorfin View Post
On the other hand, let me pose a question for you: Would you give directions to someone who says "You! Give me directions!" or someone who asks you for ten minutes of directions when you will be late to something if you do?...

More importantly, have you ever been to wal-mart? Sometimes it takes three seconds. Sometimes there's a line for the receipt checker, and it takes a few minutes.
I routinely shop at wally world
I have been asked to show a receipt maybe 3 times
It has never lasted more 5 seconds
I have never had to wait in line to get my receipt checked
they do not make demands or interjections - they ask politely

now, granted I don't go in on fridays when welfare disbursements are made, and I don't go on saturdays when the majority of people shop, either, so i've never experienced slight inconvenience at it - its so insignificant that it doesn't even register on the "do i really need to do this, or should I be nice and just do it" meter.
  #40  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:06 PM
whorfin whorfin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
I routinely shop at wally world
I have been asked to show a receipt maybe 3 times
It has never lasted more 5 seconds
I have never had to wait in line to get my receipt checked
they do not make demands or interjections - they ask politely

now, granted I don't go in on fridays when welfare disbursements are made, and I don't go on saturdays when the majority of people shop, either, so i've never experienced slight inconvenience at it - its so insignificant that it doesn't even register on the "do i really need to do this, or should I be nice and just do it" meter.
Nice dodge. I didn't ask you, and don't really care about what you do when they're polite and it doesn't take long. Most people do the same thing.

What I'm asking is whether you would still show your receipt if the checker was rude and demanding, or if it took a substantial amount of time. I have contended that I would not, unlike the situation with a nice greeter and no inconvenience. You seem to take issue with what I'm saying. I want to know if you're consistent.

So, I'll ask again:
Would you give directions to someone who says "You! Give me directions!" or someone who asks you for ten minutes of directions when you will be late to something if you do?

Last edited by whorfin; 09-28-2009 at 04:08 PM..
  #41  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:11 PM
Rumor_Watkins Rumor_Watkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whorfin View Post
Nice dodge. I didn't ask you, and don't really care about what you do when they're polite and it doesn't take long. Most people do the same thing.

What I'm asking is whether you would still show your receipt if the checker was rude and demanding, or if it took a substantial amount of time. I have contended that I would not, unlike the situation with a nice greeter and no inconvenience. You seem to take issue with what I'm saying. I want to know if you're consistent.

So, I'll ask again:
Would you give directions to someone who says "You! Give me directions!" or someone who asks you for ten minutes of directions when you will be late to something if you do?
no, i would not. but walmart greeters in my experience don't act in such ways, which is what i demonstrated to you.
regardless, that doesn't mean that when i do it i do it as an act of goodwill. it's just an act, period.
  #42  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:11 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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I can see why people hate the practice. It's like saying: "I walk into the store, I pay for my goods, you issue me a receipt and STILL you think I'm stealing."

Of course the store will check everyone so it doesn't come into a law suit for racial (or other types of) profiling.

Here's another example, not quite the same thing but similar. I worked in a hotel where all the employees had to walk past security and have their purses or bags checked by security. So if you had a box or purse or backpack it was checked.

It helped control theft because it closes a port of exit to everyone. Therefore if you left out the hotel front door or side door, security could detain you or at minimum you could be written up for leaving the hotel not through the proper exit.

Let's say linen is missing from the hotel, well even if you can't prove "Joe" is taking the sheets, if you see Joe leaving through an exit other than security you can write him up and then fire him (if he does it enough)

This way you can get rid of problems without having to actually catch someone with the goods.

So I can understand while people get upset, no one likes to to be called a theif, even subtly called one, but there are reasons for it.
  #43  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:17 PM
Colibri Colibri is online now
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[Moderating]

I believe the factual aspects of the OP have been adequately addressed, in particular by the post of Kimmy_Gibbler. Those who wish to debate whether or not the policy is rude, or express other opinions about it, are welcome to open a thread in Great Debates, IMHO, or the Pit, depending on their preference.

Colibri
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