Mad Men - "Shut the door. Have a seat." - (Spoilers after airing)

[HelloNinja]

Season 3 finale coming up tonight. How do we think they end the season?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
From AMC.com:

SPOILER:

Don has an important meeting with Connie. Betty receives some advice. Pete talks to his clients.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by AMCTV

Don has an important meeting with Connie. Betty receives some advice. Pete talks to his client

Well the season finale is on tonight. The preview for tonight's episode consisted entirely of clips from previous episodes and AMC didn't put a sneak peak scene either. Please refrain from voting in the poll until after you've watched the entire episode and be advised that if you've never seen an episode of Mad Men before you'll be hopelessly confused watching tonight's episode.

[twickster]

Merged duplicate threads, which is why the poll isn't mentioned until the second post.

twickster, Cafe Society moderator

[drastic_quench]

Not yet over, and I cast my vote for loved it.

[Dewey Finn]

That was truly excellent. I can hardly wait for the next season. I especially liked the scene in the hotel room as we saw the core of the new company. And the title was, as always, completely appropriate.

[Kid_A]

Wow. Best hour of TV I've seen since The Wire.

I think I'm going to watch it again.

[BaneSidhe]

Excellent episode, excellent ending for the season.

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn

That was truly excellent. I can hardly wait for the next season. I especially liked the scene in the hotel room as we saw the core of the new company. And the title was, as always, completely appropriate.

The all new lean and mean SterlingCooperDraperPrice. Adios to Paul Kinsey and, hopefully, Lois. I'm betting they get Salvatore back.

[alphaboi867]

HELL YES! Betty and Don, divorced. Hell, Betty's not just going to Reno to get rid of Don she's planning on coming back with a new husband. She's finally acting her age.

Roger: Peggy, get me some coffee.
Peggy: No.

That exchanges sums up how far she's come over the series pretty well.

[Dewey Finn]

I'm not sure how Sal could return, given that Lucky Strike is their biggest client.

[Lightray]

Well, looks like Betty is making the same mistake all over again, but Don may have learned something and might move on.

Hope this leaves the way clear for Sal to come back next season... did Pete get Marlboro, too?

Alas, though, no more Lois and her Lawnmower of Dark Vengeance to look forward to.

edit: d'oh! Lucky Strikes, not Marlboro. Poor Sal.

[niblet_head]

Holy cow. Now that, by God, is a Mad Men episode. (BTW, I was the one person who voted "Didn't like it" last week.) Elizabeth Moss's work in the scene with Don in the apartment was spot on. You could absolutely see the betrayal, the sadness, the barely controlled anger, the yearning.

Wow.

I think it's fan-frickin-tastic that Sterling Cooper Draper Payne (? I dunno) took the employees who are actually good at what they do. All the prize pigs!

ETA: Price. Draper Price. Thanks drastic.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Kid_A

Wow. Best hour of TV I've seen since The Wire.

Ditto. That was fucking amazing. If this episode had been the series finale instead of the season finale, I would have been satisfied. I'm just as energized for season four as Sterling Cooper Draper & Price are for their new futures. Did I get it right? SCD&P?

Bravo!!

ETA: And another perfect song over the end titles. That's not one of Orbison's most popular songs. Major kudos to whomever came up with it. Face the future, forget about the past.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Lightray

...Alas, though, no more Lois and her Lawnmower of Dark Vengeance to look forward to...

Wouldn't it be cool if next season opened up with a scene of Saint-John and new owners celebrating in the boadroom and Lois bringing them all some nice delicious cookies that she made herself.

[Kid_A]

Can somebody explain the Hilton conflict of interest? I'm assuming that the McCann(?) already had another hotel as a client...is that right?

[Dewey Finn]

Regarding the name of the new firm, didn't Pete Campbell try to negotiate his name on the door? Would that make it Sterling, Cooper, Draper, Pryce & Campbell? Kind of unwieldy there.

And I liked Bert Cooper's threat to lock Harry Crane in the storeroom, if he didn't agree to join them.

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn

Regarding the name of the new firm, didn't Pete Campbell try to negotiate his name on the door? Would that make it Sterling, Cooper, Draper, Pryce & Campbell? Kind of unwieldy there.

And I liked Bert Cooper's threat to lock Harry Crane in the storeroom, if he didn't agree to join them.

They left that for him "as a goal", as in "not yet".

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn

Regarding the name of the new firm, didn't Pete Campbell try to negotiate his name on the door? Would that make it Sterling, Cooper, Draper, Pryce & Campbell? Kind of unwieldy there...

The told Campbell they'd consider it. My WAG is that he was made a partner, but not a named one. Remeber Don didn't get his name on the door when he was made partner. If really wanna blow you mind just think of the dynamic if say Peggy was made a minor partner (yes I know this is unlikely, but just imagine her with even 1 or 2%).

Maybe it would be better if they came up with a shorter name like Stecoodrapry or something less stupid sounding then what I just typed.

[Lightray]

Yeah, Pete tried to get his name in as a partner, but I think he got the message that wasn't going to happen, no matter how much they needed him. He's pretty smart where it comes to business (not so much, with women). And I actually liked his wife, for a change.

Let's hope Harry has the good sense to let Joan take over his tv-watching for him; he's hopeless at it.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Kid_A

Can somebody explain the Hilton conflict of interest? I'm assuming that the McCann(?) already had another hotel as a client...is that right?

I'm confused about that too. If it was all right for Don to have the New York hotels when he was at SC, why not let Don have them at McCann? Unless McCann would want their own man on the account. ?

Does anybody else think that Don aged about five years between these last two episodes? He looked downright haggard in some scenes. I think that was intentional.

After Don's initial shock at hearing about Henry Francis, I think he was relieved. If Betty didn't have that "life raft", I think Don would have tried harder to save the marriage. Not because she was "whoring", but because now he knows Betty will be taken care of.

[DianaG]

I loved that so much I don't even have the words yet. Calling Joan is probably the single smartest thing Roger Sterling has ever done. And how awesome was Lane's "Happy Christmas!" in response to St. John's firing rant?

You know, if it weren't for that pesky stolen identity thing, Don could completely fuck Betty over in the divorce, since she's the one whose adultery has actually set the local tongues wagging.

[Kid_A]

One more thing...

I loved the music in this episode. Classic 1960s caper music...so sneaky.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

I'm confused about that too. If it was all right for Don to have the New York hotels when he was at SC, why not let Don have them at McCann? Unless McCann would want their own man on the account. ?...

McCann must already have a New York hotel as a client. Notice how Don never even considered trying to get Hilton now that they formed a new agency. Nothing will make Don put up with Connie again.


By the way, even though Sterling and Cooper were fired wouldn't PPL still own their names? Is just adding a bunch of names after theirs enough or would they need to name the agency something other than SCDP? What does happen to Sterling-Cooper now that it's been gutted? McCann's not going to buy it now (hence Mr Sheffield's comment about losing millions of pounds).

[salinqmind]

But Betty has not technically committed adultery.

That was a harrowing scene between Don and Betty, I was terrified he was going to slug her.

Excellent episode! I loved the pillaging of the office. Anyone who hasn't been watching Mad Men would probably think, WTF? LOL!

[DianaG]

Originally Posted by salinqmind

But Betty has not technically committed adultery.

Doesn't matter. People think she has, and are willing to say it, which is exactly as much as she'd have on Don. And I strongly suspect that most judges of the time would have been much harsher toward wifely infidelity than husbandly.

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Roger: Peggy, get me some coffee.
Peggy: No.

Loved that line. I've always thought Peggy Draper had a ring to it; I see a romance for them. (I just hope that reruns get custody of Betty and the kids.)

A question: I've missed some episodes this season- how did they convince Don to sign a contract?

Also, a question about advertising business in general I suppose, but isn't Lucky Strike's contract with the agency and not the individuals? In other words, if Sterling et al leave, wouldn't Sterling Cooper still have the contracts? It would seem that this would be in a contract as mutual benefit to both parties- the ad agencies so the clients can't just cancel their account at a moment's notice and the clients so that the ad men can't just say "we don't want this so let's give it to another agency".

[DianaG]

Clients are rarely under contract, that's why employers insist on non-compete contacts with employees.

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

I'm confused about that too. If it was all right for Don to have the New York hotels when he was at SC, why not let Don have them at McCann? Unless McCann would want their own man on the account. ?

For that matter if Hilton signed with Sterling Cooper without his insider knowledge and then Sterling Cooper was sold, would that void Hilton's contract with them?

Has it ever been explained what Cooper really adds to the agency other than senior statesman and eccentricity? Sterling manages Lucky Strike but Cooper just sort of seems to putter around being rich.

Also, since Draper and Cooper and Sterling were fired, does that mean the Brits have to pay out their contracts or buy back their points in the company?

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by DianaG

Doesn't matter. People think she has, and are willing to say it, which is exactly as much as she'd have on Don. And I strongly suspect that most judges of the time would have been much harsher toward wifely infidelity than husbandly.

Don't be so sure about that. New York still had the doctrine of recrimination in 1963. So if the court belived that they were both cheating on eachother than neither of them would be able to get a divorce. They'd have to stay married to eachother. IANAL, but this could put Don in an even worse position. If Betty was the "guilty party" in the divorce he wouldn't have to pay her a cent in alimony. But if they were still legally married he could be forced to divorce her. Disclaimer; it's midnight and I'm basing some of this of The Women.

[Sampiro]

Other favorite line:

St. John (aka Maxwell Sheffield): YOU'RE FIRED FOR COSTING THIS AGENCY MILLIONS OF POUNDS! YOU'RE FIRED FOR COMPLETE INSUBORDINATION! YOU'RE FIRED FOR AN APPALLING LACK OF CHARACTER!

Pryce: Very good then... Happy Christmas.

[Jophiel]

Originally Posted by Sampiro

Has it ever been explained what Cooper really adds to the agency other than senior statesman and eccentricity?

Connections, I believe. To other senior statesmen at other companies who need advertising. I had the impression that beyond his president duties at the original SC, he brought in some of the old wealth accounts.

I thought it was a great episode to leave on. I'd be thrilled to not see Betty Draper-Francis any more although I doubt I'll be that lucky. It was great to see Don & Roger working together again.

"Is this a joke?"
"Yes. Happy birthday."


I wonder if they went with Pete because Roger & Don really wanted him or because they just didn't think they'd get Ken. If the remaining SC cast is shunted off for Season 4, I'll miss seeing Cosgrove around. Won't miss Kinsey much though.

[Sampiro]

Is Conrad Hilton the first real person they've portrayed on the show so far? (I'd wondered about the Lucky Strike men, but I'm pretty sure if there was a real Lee Garner, Jr., they wouldn't have had him hitting on Salvatore.)

I wonder if there's going to be a big Beatles/Ed Sullivan tie in next season. While I doubt they'd have anyone portray one of the Beatles I can see them using Pryce to work in a meeting with Brian Epstein through family connections or some such.

[dropzone]

I know that posting this in a current thread borders on being trollish, and questionin "The Wild, Wild West" outside of Grant's first term is silly, but...

I knew these guys before they drank themselves to death. It stopped being fun as I saw them enter the final stages.

Anybody who can watch this show has to realize that the likelihood of any of their fates is, at best, a meeting in a church basement with people sharing where they stashed half-pints.

At worst you can figure out.

Happy Wet-Blanket Christmas.

[Dewey Finn]

Originally Posted by Jophiel

Connections, I believe. To other senior statesmen at other companies who need advertising. I had the impression that beyond his president duties at the original SC, he brought in some of the old wealth accounts.

I think they also need Bert Cooper's money for the new company. Much of Roger's profits from the sale went to his ex-wife and Don has comparatively little money.

[Kid_A]

Love that Betty left the kids with Carla over Christmas so she can head out to Reno to get the divorce. I think that's Chapter 26 in "How Not to be a Parent" by Betty Draper. Real classy.

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by dropzone

I knew these guys before they drank themselves to death. It stopped being fun as I saw them enter the final stages.

Anybody who can watch this show has to realize that the likelihood of any of their fates is, at best, a meeting in a church basement with people sharing where they stashed half-pints.

At worst you can figure out.

Happy Wet-Blanket Christmas.

Well, I figure one will drop out of a skyscraper window in the season finale as in the credits.

Plus so much of longevity and lifestyle has to do with genes. There's a good chance Don Draper will die of lung cancer or cirrhosis before he's 60, but then If Keith Richards can make it to 66 then Draper could easily make it to 90. The only thing we know for certain his family is susceptible to is childbirth, hanging, and horsekicks to the head and it's not likely he'll succomb to those.

Roger Sterling will probably go from stress since he's already had heart attacks and now has a 20 year old wife to boot which probably means more kids (golddigging trophy wives will usually have the anchor baby if they're smart; you may not always be a Sterling but the baby will).

I've wondered if in the final season they'll start skipping ahead some. I'd love to see Don Draper working on NEW COKE or WINDOWS, and finally see him ala Michael Corleone in old age.

[Jophiel]

Originally Posted by dropzone

It stopped being fun as I saw them enter the final stages.

Until then, I'll keep having fun

[AdmiralCrunch]

Originally Posted by Sampiro

I've wondered if in the final season they'll start skipping ahead some. I'd love to see Don Draper working on NEW COKE or WINDOWS, and finally see him ala Michael Corleone in old age.

You'd like to see Mad Men get the Godfather III treatment?

As far as tonight goes, it felt like we were on the verge of a montage there.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by salinqmind

But Betty has not technically committed adultery.

Technically, she has, although nobody knows that other than her and the guy she picked up in the bar on Cuban Missile Crisis day.

[LVBoPeep]

I loved the scene, even if it had me on edge, between Don & Betty when he finally called her out for being the "good one". I'm sorry, but I kinda hoped he would deck her.

The reaction of the kids to the divorce was really well done, Sally is tired of being lied too and Jr. (can't remember his name) was too young to really get anything but Daddy still loves you. I hope the series hangs around long enough for us to see the full effects , especially for Sally.

[DianaG]

Originally Posted by Kid_A

Love that Betty left the kids with Carla over Christmas so she can head out to Reno to get the divorce. I think that's Chapter 26 in "How Not to be a Parent" by Betty Draper. Real classy.

Seriously. It can't wait until after Christmas break? I wonder if she even told Don she was going. If so, why not at least have him stay at the house with the kids?

[DianaG]

Missed the edit window

Another great moment; Kinsey realizing what's happened, opening Peggy's door to find that her things are gone, and cursing.

[ShibbOleth]

For my money, Hilton is the most cryptic character on the show. He's always catching Don wrong footed. I wonder if his meeting was also an indication for Don that he should strike out on his own? But when Cooper and Sterling asked Don if he could bring Hilton along didn't he say no?

Another interesting subject will be whether Draper can keep it in his pants long enough for the divorce to come through.

Also, in real life, I'd be surprised if a lot of the new firm's cash didn't get immediately tied up in litigation.

[Jophiel]

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

Another interesting subject will be whether Draper can keep it in his pants long enough for the divorce to come through.

Given the time jump we've seen between seasons, and the lawyer's statement that you only had to spend six weeks in Reno and Don saying he wouldn't fight her and Henry Francis saying they weren't going to go after Don's house/money, you'd expect Season 4 will pick up with them already divorced. If they're not, I guess something went pretty wrong.

[Dorothea Book]

Originally Posted by Sampiro

Loved that line. I've always thought Peggy Draper had a ring to it; I see a romance for them.

Oh gosh I hope not!

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

For my money, Hilton is the most cryptic character on the show. He's always catching Don wrong footed. I wonder if his meeting was also an indication for Don that he should strike out on his own? But when Cooper and Sterling asked Don if he could bring Hilton along didn't he say no?

I'd say no too. The Hilton account is a prestigious time suck. Sure it looks great but when your primary focus in striking out on your own is to hustle up as much business as you can carry to keep yourself afloat, you can't afford getting calls at 3 AM because your client has insomnia and wants to have a drink with you in his Timbuctoo resort.
Don worked with Connie for months and it didn't seem as if they'd gotten much past the wooing stage (if even that). I don't think Hilton was that profitable for Sterling Cooper.

[AuntiePam]

Is my interpretation of the flashbacks correct? Don was considering striking out on his own but realized that he really did need other people -- that being selfish doesn't get you anywhere for very long?

[Dorothea Book]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Is my interpretation of the flashbacks correct? Don was considering striking out on his own but realized that he really did need other people -- that being selfish doesn't get you anywhere for very long?

That is a really interesting question AuntiePam.

I think initially it's about his father's rebelling against being taken in, which separates Whitman from the passive pack. But only gradually does it become clear that this individual rebellion comes at too great a price--the family won't survive his stubbornness. And the argument between Whitman and his wife is also an analogue for various problems in Don's marriage (complete with illegitimate Dick listening in). But then it all ends tragically: he's drunk, the horse kicks, Dick can't do anything but watch helplessly.

All along we've watched Don feeling as though his past would suck him down so much so that he had to deny it, escape it, and invent himself anew in order to be successful (at least in the ways in which he is successful).

So I think the flashbacks say that Don both is and isn't like his father. And, yeah, I think you're right that the reaching out to Cooper and the rapprochement with Roger and eventually Peggy do show some real growth in the character; as opposed to the reflex to simply run away and escape (from the past, from who he is, from failures of one kind or another).

[ivylass]

Wow. Just wow.

Okay, I skimmed the thread, so maybe this has been answered...how the hell was what they were doing legal? Since they're owned by PPL (for now) I don't see how they can just bust into doors and steal files and logos and such.

I knew this was a way to get Joanie back, but since Lucky Strike is still their biggest client, I don't see how Sal is going to come back.

I loved Trudy off camera, "Peter? May I speak to you for a moment?" Hee hee hee. I'm glad they got Harry to jump ship...he's underappreciated.

So Don saw his father die right in front of him. Again, wow.

I'm glad Don came back to Peggy after she initially turned him down. I wonder if she'll still be boinking Duck?

[The Weird One]

Originally Posted by Jophiel

Given the time jump we've seen between seasons, and the lawyer's statement that you only had to spend six weeks in Reno and Don saying he wouldn't fight her and Henry Francis saying they weren't going to go after Don's house/money, you'd expect Season 4 will pick up with them already divorced. If they're not, I guess something went pretty wrong.

Yeah, this certainly isn't an amicable divorce, but it doesn't look like it'll be messy, either. Betty's pretty foolish to get remarried so quickly, and I think it's pretty clear that she's only enamored of Henry Francis because he wants her, and she wants to be wanted. Once they settle into their marriage, I doubt Betty will be any happier than she was with Don.

I really hope that Sterling-Draper-Cooper-Pryce finds some way to hire Sal back, but I'm not sure how they could manage it while keeping the Lucky Strike account. It's too bad the show probably won't last long enough to place Sal at the Stonewall Riots in '69.