Small Plane Crashes into Building in Austin, TX

[cmyk]

A few buildings are now burning. Unfolding story.

[Broomstick]

When they say "small airplane" I always have to ask "how small"? Because the media would say a 40 passenger commercial plane is a "small plane", whereas to me a "small plane" would be 6 or fewer seats.

[cmyk]

I think eye-witnesses said it was a single engine.

[cmyk]

An eye-witness, who's a pilot, says it was a Blue & White Cherokee 140.

It was flying low, hit the top of a 30' parking lot lamp above him, then sailed right into the center of the building.

[beowulff]

Two in as many days:
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...n-plane-crash/

[cmyk]

Uh-oh.

Looks like there might be a connection between a house fire in Austin about an hour before the crash. The homeowner is a pilot that possibly stole a plane he flew out of Georgetown. His family was inside the house while on fire, and I think their neighbors helped them escape.

Possible (intended) murder/suicide?

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by cmyk

An eye-witness, who's a pilot, says it was a Blue & White Cherokee 140.

OK. That's definitely a small airplane. It's a 2-seater (unless modified post-purchase).

[Duke]

Quoth CNN:

"Criminal or terrorist activity" not indicated, Homeland Security spokesman says

Er, since when is stealing a plane and crashing it into a building not "criminal or terrorist activity"?

[cmyk]

Ok, the plane was a single-engine Cirrus SR22. So, what... probably a 4-seater?

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by Duke

Quoth CNN:



Er, since when is stealing a plane and crashing it into a building not "criminal or terrorist activity"?

I think that was before they were able to make the connection between the house fire and the crash.

It's definitely criminal now.

[elbows]

Any idea what building was hit?

Or why that detail isn't in the news broadcasts?

[cmyk]

They were saying it's the Echelon 3 Bldg.

Apparently the IRS has offices in there as well. Not sure what else is in there. It looks to be an 8-10 story building.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by elbows

Any idea what building was hit?

Or why that detail isn't in the news broadcasts?

Link:

The structure that was hit houses private firms and government offices, including the Internal Revenue Services' criminal investigation unit. The FBI is not a tenant, contrary to some initial reports.

[Gray Ghost]

IRS Criminal Investigation Department was in the building. Not sure if their offices were actually hit by the plane. Cite (in the 4th paragraph).

Or you could just read Ferret Herder's account above.

[Palo Verde]

My sister works there! She is at HMG Engineering which is http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=70%2BNe...X%2078216-5849

I'm not sure if it is this building or another one close by. There are several in that area!

[Lightnin']

I interviewed in that very building, many years ago. Yikes!

A lot of people are theorizing that he did it because there was an IRS office there. I didn't know that- personally, if I were him, I would've gone for the main IRS building on south I35.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by cmyk

Ok, the plane was a single-engine Cirrus SR22. So, what... probably a 4-seater?

Yep, that's a 4 seat. Although I think it's lighter in weight, it's capable of higher speeds so the total force of impact might be higher with a Cirrus than a PA-140. The Cirrus also comes standard with a ballistic recovery parachute, which in an emergency can be launched through the skin of the airplane to deploy it - this uses a small explosive charge which, unfortunately, tends to go off with heavy impact+fire, and which may account in part for how briskly and hot the resulting fire was. Then again, both types of airplane can carry a considerable amount of gasoline, which also burns quite well when ignited. Combine with paperwork and office furniture and the fire department is definitely needed.

I think by "not connected to terrorist or criminal activity" they mean organized groups of bad guys, not some lone kook with suicidal inclinations.

Between the house fire, stealing the plane, and the kamikaze run I'm inclined to think there are some sort of personal problem(s) at work. With the IRS offices in the building I'm wondering about financial troubles and hatred of taxes.... but who knows at this point if the nutball was actually targeting those people or just picked the building on a whim?

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by Palo Verde

My sister works there! She is at HMG Engineering which is http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=70%2BNe...X%2078216-5849

I'm not sure if it is this building or another one close by. There are several in that area!

Let us know if she's okay!

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

Between the house fire, stealing the plane, and the kamikaze run I'm inclined to think there are some sort of personal problem(s) at work. With the IRS offices in the building I'm wondering about financial troubles and hatred of taxes.... but who knows at this point if the nutball was actually targeting those people or just picked the building on a whim?

Yeh, it's anyone's guess right now. It could've been totally random. But since it's a suicide, I'm supposing he had a particular target in mind... especially since he also tried to kill his family. Either he worked there and was disgruntled, or was in trouble with his job or the IRS and was seeking vengeance or attempting to hide something, or of course something else entirely.

ETA: Also, thanks for your aviation insight... it adds a lot of perspective to an incident like this. Especially that bit about the explosive parachute charge that could've exasperated the damage.

[LIONsob]

Latest news, pilots name is joe stack and it is a suicide/attack on the IRS see www.embeddedart.com for his manifesto.

[cmyk]

Oh boy. The guy has a six-page rant up on his website about the IRS.

This morning he posted something to the effect of "Let's try something different. Take my pound of flesh and sleep well."

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by lionsob

latest news, pilots name is joe stack and it is a suicide/attack on the irs see www.embeddedart.com for his manifesto.

oooooof.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by cmyk

Oh boy. The guy has a six-page rant up on his website about the IRS.

This morning he posted something to the effect of "Let's try something different. Take my pound of flesh and sleep well."

From the website:

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0.

Translation: I tried to game the tax codes for my own benefit, took the advice of other attempted tax-dodgers, and got caught.

[Duke]

FAA officials now say it was a Piper Cherokee PA-28.

As an aside: Those are powered by Lycoming O-360 engines, some variants of which were partly designed by my father when he worked at Textron Lycoming.

[BrainGlutton]

Latest news from the local daily, the Austin American-Statesman. No deaths reported yet.

[Palo Verde]

I've e-mailed my sister, but I haven't heard back yet.

Does anyone know if the building that was crashed into is

9606 North Mopac Expressway

http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=9606%2B...8759-5932%20us


That map I gave in my first post was wrong, it was their San Antonio office

[LIONsob]

Originally Posted by Palo Verde

I've e-mailed my sister, but I haven't heard back yet.

Does anyone know if the building that was crashed into is

9606 North Mopac Expressway

http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=9606%2B...8759-5932%20us


That map I gave in my first post was wrong, it was their San Antonio office

They are saying on the news that it is building 2.

[Broomstick]

Well, it appears there is some confusion over the exact type of airplane, whether or not it was stolen, and various other details... so lets all keep in mind that when more facts come out our viewpoints may need adjusting.

Although that manifesto does give a motive....

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Latest news from the local daily, the Austin American-Statesman. No deaths reported yet.

I'm going to nitpick that slightly - it's a pretty sure bet Mr. Joe Stack did not survive the impact. So, at least one death.

Really, I'm getting a Tim McVeigh/Murrah Federal Building vibe off this story, anyone else?

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by LIONsob

They are saying on the news that it is building 2.

Really? CNN has been reporting it's Echelon Bldg #3.

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

I'm going to nitpick that slightly - it's a pretty sure bet Mr. Joe Stack did not survive the impact. So, at least one death.

They're also having trouble accounting for one person. Doesn't mean he/she's dead, but it's not a good sign.

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

Really, I'm getting a Tim McVeigh/Murrah Federal Building vibe off this story, anyone else?

1. Guy's from Texas.

2. Guy has a hatred of the Catholic Church.

3. Guy tries to re-interpret the tax code to his advantage.

I'm getting a profile of the guy, that matches a lot of what I read in a gun forum I lurk at.

[Mehitabel]

That's a chilling rant, and it's especially nasty that he signs it with his death year.

But there's something else going on, because why try to take your family with you if you're mad at the IRS?

[Magiver]

Originally Posted by Duke

FAA officials now say it was a Piper Cherokee PA-28.

As an aside: Those are powered by Lycoming O-360 engines, some variants of which were partly designed by my father when he worked at Textron Lycoming.

No, it depends on what the rest of the numbers are. If it's a 140 then it's an 0-320. Pa-28 represents a series of aircraft including an Arrow.

The FAA said it was a PA-28 Cherokee so that should be a Cherokee 140 which is a 4 seat fixed gear, fixed prop plane with an 0-320 engine of 150/160 hp.

If he was strait and level then the max speed would have been around 115 knots and if he was diving then closer to 140/150 knots although if it was a one-way trip I suppose breaking VNE doesn't matter.

[Cherrie]

I work about a mile from the building. The street address is 9420 Research BLVD. If the address you posted is the address for your sisters building, she should be fine, Palo Verde.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by Mehitabel

That's a chilling rant, and it's especially nasty that he signs it with his death year.

But there's something else going on, because why try to take your family with you if you're mad at the IRS?

Sounds like he's bankrupt. Sadly it's not extremely uncommon for men to kill their families before killing themselves if they've lost their jobs/savings, etc., and are at the "screw the world/my boss/my employer/the government" mode of thinking. Link to article about "family annihilators", called "Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families."

The killer is convinced that he no longer has the ability to take primary responsibility of his wife and his children. He may have lost his job in an economy that's going south. He may have lost almost every penny in the stock market like many other people today. The husband/father feels that he will never again be able to find another comparable job and thus won't ever be able to take care of his family. He feels a responsibility for the well being of his family and their current existence is so miserable that they would be happier in the hereafter where they can reunite after death.

[carnivorousplant]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

I'm getting a profile of the guy, that matches a lot of what I read in a gun forum I lurk at.

Don't annoy any of them.

[Palo Verde]

I just got this message from my sister:

No, just immediately across the freeway. The plane flew 70 feet over the top of our building, clipped the Marie Calendar’s parking lot lights, and then turned immediately and slammed, full throttle into the first/second floor of the Echelon building. The guy set his house on fire first and then ran into the IRS office.



We can see it all from our parking garage.

So she's OK then. Great news!

[Furious_Marmot]

Originally Posted by Ferret Herder

From the website:

Translation: I tried to game the tax codes for my own benefit, took the advice of other attempted tax-dodgers, and got caught.

Then, after I was caught, I pretended that I was doing it as a political protest.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Magiver

No, it depends on what the rest of the numbers are. If it's a 140 then it's an 0-320. Pa-28 represents a series of aircraft including an Arrow.

And on further review (sorry 'bout that, Dad), some of the engines for the PA-28 weren't even built by Lycoming. Hopefully by tomorrow night when I see him the news agencies will have their story straight about which plane it was.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Palo Verde

So she's OK then. Great news!

Glad to hear your sister is well. Great news indeed!

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by Duke

And on further review (sorry 'bout that, Dad), some of the engines for the PA-28 weren't even built by Lycoming. Hopefully by tomorrow night when I see him the news agencies will have their story straight about which plane it was.

Don't forget - there are also reports it was a Cirrus - another low-wing 4 seat airplane. I think we're better off waiting until there is a definitive identification of the airplane.

[Chessic Sense]

I think President Obama knew this was going to happen, but he let it happen to justify a war against Texas. Then he'll use that as an excuse to invade New Mexico.

[Anamorphic]

Originally Posted by Chessic Sense

I think President Obama knew this was going to happen, but he let it happen to justify a war against Texas. Then he'll use that as an excuse to invade New Mexico.

I'm hearing reports (which I just made up) that there was a van full of Nebraskans cheering when the plane hit.

[fuzzypickles]

Thank goodness this guy wasn't Muslim, or Fox News would be claiming this was yet another terrorist attack that happened on Obama's watch.

Originally Posted by Chessic Sense

Then he'll use that as an excuse to invade New Mexico.

Hold on...there's a New Mexico??

[Magiver]

Originally Posted by Duke

And on further review (sorry 'bout that, Dad), some of the engines for the PA-28 weren't even built by Lycoming. Hopefully by tomorrow night when I see him the news agencies will have their story straight about which plane it was.

CNN interviewed an eye witnessed who has 4000 hrs of instructor flying time in a 140 and positively identified the plane. My experience with them is with the Lycoming 0-320 (my Piper Colt has an 0-320 pulled from a 140).

[Tapioca Dextrin]

I just drove by coming back from the store and it's rubberneck city

[Death of Rats]

Originally Posted by Mehitabel

But there's something else going on, because why try to take your family with you if you're mad at the IRS?

So they don't have to pay the "death tax"? He was a tax protester, after all.

[Tom Tildrum]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

1. Guy's from Texas.

2. Guy has a hatred of the Catholic Church.

3. Guy tries to re-interpret the tax code to his advantage.

I'm getting a profile of the guy, that matches a lot of what I read in a gun forum I lurk at.

The denunciations of George W. Bush, for-profit health care, and capitalism may not fit that profile. This guy just sounds like he was angry at everything.

[Biotop]

Geez. Not another nut using that tired "definition of insanity...blah blah...same actions expecting different results blah blah blah..."

A real definition of insanity I could get behind is "setting the family house on fire and then flying a plane into a building."