Political nobody wins SC Democratic US Senate nomination in strangest political upset of the year.

[CyclopticXander]

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/06/...south-carolina

This article poses a question many of us in South Carolina are asking tonight, who the heck is Alvin Greene?

To call this an upset is a bit of an understatement. And before you assume this may be another case of the supposed anti-establishment fever sweeping the nation, take note that nobody has ever even seen this supposed candidate and the leading theory is that people just blindly voted for the first name alphabetically. He was so nervous and obviously unprepared when the media came to him for comment that he could only speak in unintelligible gibberish.

I've never seen anyone express any kind of dissatisfaction with Vic Rawl, who obviously had a well put together campaign. There was never a moment of doubt that he would beat the guy who didn't even have a campaign website, well it looks like the joke is on us. Sources say the Demint people are falling asleep tonight with giant grins on their faces.

So do people really vote randomly in races they know nothing about? Can someone really be the victim of a bad name in the nomination for a position as high profile as US Senator? I'd understand if this as a party runoff for railroad commissioner or neighborhood dog catcher, but come on!

Can some of you politically astute people please tel me what the heck just happened?

[Jonathan Chance]

It's weird, don't get me wrong. But it's not like it matters. DeMint will walk away with that one regardless of who the D nominee is.

[joebuck20]

Damn, reading that story, he makes Sarah Palin sound like George Plimpton.

"It wasn’t much, I mean, just, it was—it wasn’t much. Not much, I mean, it wasn’t much," he said, when asked how much of his own money he spent in the primary. Greene frequently spoke in rapid-fire, fragmentary sentences, repeating certain phrases or interrupting himself multiple times during the same sentence while he searched for the right words. But he was emphatic about certain aspects of his candidacy, insisting that details about his campaign organization, for instance, weren't relevant. "I'm not concentrating on how I was elected—it's history. I’m the Democratic nominee—we need to get talking about America back to work, what's going on, in America."

I'm sure Sen. Demint is probably laughing his ass off right now, but in a race which he was likely to win anyway, it's not like it mattered who the Democratic nominee was going to be.

[Bricker]

South Carolina Democratic Party Chairwoman Carol Fowler speculated that Greene won because his name appeared first on the ballot, and voters unfamiliar with both candidates chose alphabetically.

Aaron Aaronson, your country needs you.

[Ponch8]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Aaron Aaronson, your country needs you.

The biggest gossip in town, along with Mr. Zykowski.

[Mr. Excellent]

Not cool, Mr. Greene. Not cool. Even if Demint's a shoe-in for this race - if you weren't prepared to be a capable, articulate spokesman for the Democratic Party, you had no business seeking the nomination.

[Kolga]

South Carolina politics continues to be the laughingstock of America. Joe "you lie" Wilson, state Senator Jake Knotts calling President Obama and gubernatorial candidate Nikki Haley (Tea Party favorite accused of two different affairs) ragheads, the aforementioned Haley, and now this.

Just another in a long line of utterly bogus and mindbogglingly stupid South Carolina political events.

[Ravenman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

Not cool, Mr. Greene. Not cool. Even if Demint's a shoe-in for this race - if you weren't prepared to be a capable, articulate spokesman for the Democratic Party, you had no business seeking the nomination.

From the article, he appears to have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to win the nomination other than putting his name on the ballot. If a professional politician can't beat someone who does nothing to win the primary, then they have only themselves to blame.

I think it is more embarrassing for Vic Rawl to be beaten by this complete unknown than it would be to be beaten by a dead man. At least a dead man gets his name in the paper. Mr. Greene can't even get his name in the obituaries.

Does anyone know if South Carolina has open or closed primaries?

[Mr. Excellent]

Originally Posted by Ravenman

From the article, he appears to have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to win the nomination other than putting his name on the ballot. If a professional politician can't beat someone who does nothing to win the primary, then they have only themselves to blame.

I think it is more embarrassing for Vic Rawl to be beaten by this complete unknown than it would be to be beaten by a dead man. At least a dead man gets his name in the paper. Mr. Greene can't even get his name in the obituaries.

Does anyone know if South Carolina has open or closed primaries?

Agreed, Rawl is to blame for losing this thing. Greene, however, is to blame for winning it when he knew or should have known that he didn't have what it takes to run a real campaign.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by joebuck20

I'm sure Sen. Demint is probably laughing his ass off right now, but in a race which he was likely to win anyway, it's not like it mattered who the Democratic nominee was going to be.

DeMint is favored to win, sure, but even in South Carolina he hasn't won by impressive margins in the past. As I mentioned in the "potential 2012 GOP candidates" thread, in 2006 he actually lost the first Republican primary, then won the runoff primary, and in the general election he couldn't even take a double-digit win, in one of the redder states in the country. It's a stretch to say DeMint is vulnerable, but he was not expected to win by landslide margins either.

This is truly a weird story. Almost like Head of State, but with the candidate being nowhere near as funny as Chris Rock.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by Kolga

South Carolina politics continues to be the laughingstock of America. Joe "you lie" Wilson, state Senator Jake Knotts calling President Obama and gubernatorial candidate Nikki Haley (Tea Party favorite accused of two different affairs) ragheads, the aforementioned Haley, and now this.

You forgot Mark "hiking the Appalachian Trail" Sanford and Andre "poor people are like animals" Bauer. South Carolina is gaining on Glenn Beck in the "Most Appearances on The Daily Show" competition.

And of course it's always worth mentioning the guy with the horse (Twice! With the same horse!).

[Simplicio]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

Not cool, Mr. Greene. Not cool. Even if Demint's a shoe-in for this race - if you weren't prepared to be a capable, articulate spokesman for the Democratic Party, you had no business seeking the nomination.

I dunno, everyones always grumbling that we could pull random people off the street and they'd be better then our current crop of politicians, now we have.

I kinda hope someone helps Mr Greene make a go of it. He won't win unless DeMint gets caught giving blow-jobs in the mens room, but you figure the national party can make some hay out of the guys story (thirteen year military veteran returns to the US in the middle of the Recession, can't get a break, decides to make a quixotic run for office), especially in the current anti-elitist environment.

[CyclopticXander]

Originally Posted by Ravenman

From the article, he appears to have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to win the nomination other than putting his name on the ballot. If a professional politician can't beat someone who does nothing to win the primary, then they have only themselves to blame.

I think it is more embarrassing for Vic Rawl to be beaten by this complete unknown than it would be to be beaten by a dead man. At least a dead man gets his name in the paper. Mr. Greene can't even get his name in the obituaries.

Does anyone know if South Carolina has open or closed primaries?

Well see I'd been following the race a little, and I really don't see what else Vic Rawl could have done. He was an entirely qualified candidate and his campaign was competent and focused. He traveled around plenty, wasn't really objectionable in any way, his online presence was decent with arms on Facebook and Twitter. Anyone who took a moment of observation in the race knew there was a serious candidate and one guy who nobody could even find any information on, Alvin Greene may as well have been Bigfoot as far as visibility was concerned.


The only thing I can think is that the race was so low profile and people so apathetic and uninformed that they picked at random in the voting booth. I've seen this phenomenon before, I even did it myself in my first few elections until I wised up and realized that was a terrible thing to do. Basically you go to the ballot knowing a race or two you are interested in, but there are all these extra contests you don't know about so treat it like a multiple choice test that you are trying to complete before the time is up. The correct thing to do in that situation of course is just leave those spots blank, but many people don't even realize you can do that.

Still though, most people involved in politics know that this happens and can account for some scattershot votes, but to actually decide a party nomination for US Senate of all things? Something doesn't seem right here at all.

South Carolina has an open primary. Obviously the majority votes on the Republican ballot, especially at a time like this when the R side was especially attention grabbing with several key races people wanted to vote on, I suspect it even drug away a number of our Democrats who wanted to have a say in the headline races. The Republican ballot was pretty long and even had a few policy questions on the ballot, the Democratic ballot was pretty boring let me tell you, there were three low profile races on mine, none of them very contested or interesting. So yea there was a pretty shallow pool of voters here, probably had something to do with the result.

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

You forgot Mark "hiking the Appalachian Trail" Sanford and Andre "poor people are like animals" Bauer.

Yea, I figured those were so well-known they went without saying. I'm not sure how many people knew about the "raghead" comment, though.

Originally Posted by Gyrate

South Carolina is gaining on Glenn Beck in the "Most Appearances on The Daily Show" competition.

I'm so proud of my home state.

Originally Posted by Gyrate

And of course it's always worth mentioning the guy with the horse (Twice! With the same horse!).

I think that guy is from Georgia.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by Kolga

I think that guy is from Georgia.

Nope. To quote Jon Stewart, "world's most alluring horse".

Back on topic: it'll be interesting to see what Mr Greene does next with the weight of the party behind him and presumably a bit more money to spend. I'm guessing the DNC will at least get the guy a new suit and a PR coach.

[BrainGlutton]

South Carolina . . . It's nice to know somebody is there to make Florida politics look good!

[obfusciatrist]

Didn't Eddie Murphy already make this movie?

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

Back on topic: it'll be interesting to see what Mr Greene does next with the weight of the party behind him and presumably a bit more money to spend. I'm guessing the DNC will at least get the guy a new suit and a PR coach.

I'm sure they'll back him, but I'm thinking the DNC is not going to spend too much money or time on a hopeless race. State organizations might do more for the guy but the DNC will probably do the bare minimum. What a weird story.

[Simplicio]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I'm sure they'll back him, but I'm thinking the DNC is not going to spend too much money or time on a hopeless race. State organizations might do more for the guy but the DNC will probably do the bare minimum. What a weird story.

He's enough of a novelty, though, to be able to get a decent amount of buzz and name-recognition without having to actually pay for TV ads and the like. And you figure there must be some just starting-out political operatives out there who would work for cheap to have the chance to run a (admittedly doomed) Senatorial Campaign rather then having to spend the season as a low level functionary on a "real" campaign. Assuming the guy turns out to be relatively sympathetic (and who knows, he might turn out to be a rabid anti-semite, or have some crazy pet conspiracy theory or something, which would obviously necessitate the party ditching him), he could give the national party some good press, and make the GOP spend some money on an otherwise safe senate seat, even if he never gets close to winning.

The guy that ran Fred Tuttle's campaign could make a doucumentray out of it and help make it worth Greene's while.

[An Arky]

Open Primary, natch. Hoo boy, them 'ol boys pulled a goodun', votin' fer (someone they perceive to be a) Stepin Fetchit. HAW HAW HAW, they done messed with them commie faggots in Warshington now!

[An Arky]

Seriously, in a not-too-hot primary in a not-so-big state, somebody can win just by nailing a couple of key districts, so I'd say it's a vagary of party primary politics and non-compulsary elections, among other things...

[CyclopticXander]

Well the plot thickens.
http://www.wltx.com/news/local/story...=88409&catid=2

Dude's got a pending felony charge. Great. It'd sure be interesting to be a fly on the wall at a state party meeting right now. I know there was only a 5% chance of the Demint losing anyway, but dammit I wanted my 5% chance!

[Oakminster]

Originally Posted by CyclopticXander

Well the plot thickens.
http://www.wltx.com/news/local/story...=88409&catid=2

Dude's got a pending felony charge. Great. It'd sure be interesting to be a fly on the wall at a state party meeting right now. I know there was only a 5% chance of the Demint losing anyway, but dammit I wanted my 5% chance!

From the link:

He's accused of showing Internet photos to a University of South Carolina student. The felony charge carries up to five years in prison.

WTF kinda crime is that? If the gal is in college, she's most likely old enough to see porn and/or copulate at will.

[joebuck20]

Originally Posted by CyclopticXander

Well the plot thickens.
http://www.wltx.com/news/local/story...=88409&catid=2

Dude's got a pending felony charge. Great. It'd sure be interesting to be a fly on the wall at a state party meeting right now. I know there was only a 5% chance of the Demint losing anyway, but dammit I wanted my 5% chance!

An obscenity charge - that's going to sting.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Oakminster

WTF kinda crime is that? If the gal is in college, she's most likely old enough to see porn and/or copulate at will.

This was South Carolina. Judging by Gyrate's post earlier, this could be a Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino* thing.

*Yes, that is officially his name now. Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by joebuck20

An obscenity charge - that's going to sting.

You know they aren't going to play up that portion of it. The word felony is in there, and that's going to hurt. What might be useful is to use it to bar him from the full race, putting Vic Rawl back in if the DNC thinks he has better chances. Then again, if people would rather vote for a complete unknown rather than you, I'd guess you aren't well liked.

[Oakminster]

Originally Posted by Duke

This was South Carolina. Judging by Gyrate's post earlier, this could be a Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino* thing.

*Yes, that is officially his name now. Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino.

Let the record reflect that I said "Eww" in as masculine a manner as possible.

[hajario]

This is hilarious, or it would be if..... nah, it's still hilarious.

BTW, he's not going to get squat from the DNC unless his poll numbers are good enough. A good friend of mine was the Dem candidate for Congress a few years back in a district where the GOP candidate has handily won for decades. He was told that he would get money for having poll numbers at a certain level at certain times. He did get lots of free advice from some high profile people but that was it at the national level.

[Chronos]

I'm not sure I buy the "voting randomly" or "voting alphabetically" argument. I'd expect that the sorts of people who would turn out for an off-year primary election would be at least somewhat informed on the candidates (even if that "information" consists of just knowing who their media of choice told them to vote for), and US Senator has to be pretty close to the top of the ballot. I'd think that the people who genuinely didn't know who either candidate was, or who didn't care, would just stay home.

The only scenario that seems plausible to me is that this was driven by cross-party votes from folks who actually support DeMint, and want him to face the weakest opposition possible.


The whole thing reminds me of the US Representative general election here in Montana, two years ago. The Democratic challenger to Republican incumbent Denny Rehberg literally spent zero dollars on his campaign. He had no ads, no fliers, even his official campaign website was on a free webhost. If he had any sort of word-of-mouth operation going, it was a pretty pathetic one, given that it didn't even penetrate to this college town. He didn't win, but he did manage to take about a third of the vote, which says to me that a third of Montanans will either blindly vote for whichever name has a D next to it, or really hate Rehberg.

[CyclopticXander]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2010_...0867602&page=2

Apparently he was kicked out of the army as well, unflattering stuff is coming out pretty quickly now since candidates thought to have no chance of winning don't get vetted that well.

A Columbia station did an interview with him today that they will be airing tonight, so we'll have some video soon to see just how trainwrecky the situation is.

[CyclopticXander]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...enate-race.php

And even crazier, the party is now asking him to step down. Just bizarre.

[Oakminster]

I dunno anything about Rawl, but he's gotta be feeling like something the cat did and forgot to cover up about now.

[Damuri Ajashi]

I haven't stopped laughing since I read this.

BTW how many senators from south carolina have been black felons?

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

BTW how many senators from south carolina have been black felons?

South Carolina has never had a black senator, so I'm going to guess the number is approximately zero.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Originally Posted by Duke

This was South Carolina. Judging by Gyrate's post earlier, this could be a Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino* thing.

*Yes, that is officially his name now. Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino.

I heard he prefers Carl "INTERSPECIES EROTICA" Paladino. And Randall says the horse's name is Kelly.

[waterj2]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

I haven't stopped laughing since I read this.

BTW how many senators from south carolina have been black felons?

I'm pretty sure that even implying such a thing about a South Carolina senator would get one savagely beaten with a cane.

[Peremensoe]

Originally Posted by Oakminster

WTF kinda crime is that? If the gal is in college, she's most likely old enough to see porn and/or copulate at will.

It has nothing to do with her age. You're not allowed to go around showing pornography to adults against their will.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

Nope. To quote Jon Stewart, "world's most alluring horse".

The Georgia one was a mule.

[Jormungandr]

A complete unknown who didn't campaign, give a speech or make any signs wins the South Carolina Democratic Senate race. After giving the party a shock (the leading, now defeated, candidate, Vic Rawl, was readying for the general election), it was discovered that Alvin Greene has a pending felony charge. Supposedly, he has refused to withdraw from the race. OK, so what can the South Carolina Democratic Party do?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Eh, just run him. If he won the primary without campaigning at all imagine what he'll do to Jim DeMint*.

*assuming DeMint's oh-so-predictable gay sex scandal** breaks before he gets re-elected.

**yes, I'm serious.

[CyclopticXander]

Here's some video, because you just have to see this with your own eyes.

http://www.wistv.com/global/video/fl...o&rnd=36830072

He'll probably be edged out, if not though he says he looks forward to having a televised debate with Demint, and that is something I think we all need to see.

[septimus]

Has the result been compared with exit polls as a sanity check?

Florida's famous "butterfly ballot" was a real problem. Machine fraud and malfunction are real problems; could something like that be at work here?

[What the .... ?!?!]

Originally Posted by CyclopticXander

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...enate-race.php

And even crazier, the party is now asking him to step down. Just bizarre.

I'm sure that Rahm can find a little something for him to do. Don't they have some positions to fill since Sestak and the Colorado guy both turned them down.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by What the .... ?!?!

I'm sure that Rahm can find a little something for him to do. Don't they have some positions to fill since Sestak and the Colorado guy both turned them down.

[Rob Schneider]

Makin' the copies...

[/Rob Schneider]

[CyclopticXander]

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/06/...-camille-mccoy

The mother of the victim on a crusade to derail his candidacy. Very interesting article.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I thought it was traditional for the mods to explain that they merged threads when they merge threads.

[Marley23]

I merged Jormungandr's thread into this one, which started yesterday.

EDIT: Hold your horses, Really Not All That Bright.

[Really Not All That Bright]

In b4 explanation!

[Spit]

What happened to tolerance? What horrors did those folks endure that made them so demented as to have relations with an animal?

I suspect someone in the GOP realized the way the ballots would be printed, found a rube, gave him 10k, and told him to go be the everyman candidate. Nice protection against incumbent backlash.

ETA: Besides, the guy is already learning the world of politics!

"The people have spoken. We need to be pro-South Carolina, not anti-Greene." -Alvin Greene

[Peremensoe]

Even if the guy was a plant or rube of the South Carolina Republicans--apparently a hundred thousand people voted for him, an eighteen-point margin.*

I also don't buy that such a thing happens only by random or alphabetic effect. There had to have been a substantial number of people voting against the other guy, if only on the basis that they sort of recognized his name as being that of a politician; Rawl's own campaigning might have hurt him!

This was literally a vote for nobody.

Well, either that, or a vote for Love and Happiness.

Does anyone have a link for actual/original reporting on what has been repeated (verbatim, without names) in several recent articles, that

Republican place markers in Palmetto State Democratic primaries are campaign legend.

In the early ‘90s, a Republican strategist was prosecuted and forced to pay a fine when he was found to have coaxed an unemployed black fisherman into running in a primary race to increase white turnout at the polls in a Lowcountry congressional race. The political operative paid the man’s filing fee.

* We think; is there any physical record of votes in SC?