Is there going to be any voter suppression/intimidation in the 2010 midterms?

[BrainGlutton]

This is something that has come up in recent election cycles, practically always coming from the GOP side. See these relevant GD threads:

Right-wingers trying to block college-student voter-registration drives (2004)

Can anyone name any defensible, legitimate value to "voter suppression" (2004)

Republican voter intimidation tactics (2004)

RFK, Jr.: Investigate U.S. Attorney Tim Griffin for 2004 voter "caging lists" (2007)

USA Tim Griffin/"caging lists" redux (2007)

Get-out-the-vote and voter suppression are not equally legitimate political tactics (2008)

Anyways, I was kinda hoping none of this would arise this year -- because the Dems don't do this sort of thing and the Pubs are too confident to bother.

However, see this post in this thread linking to this story.

Expect to hear a lot about “voter caging” in the coming days. What is it? Its a method of voter suppression in which an election official challenges the registration status of voters ostensibly to prevent them from casting a ballot. Why should you expect to hear about it? Because a group called One Wisconsin Now is claiming to have uncover a “massive scheme to disenfranchise voters in Wisconsin this November.” Further, they are alleging that participants in the conspiracy include the Wisconsin GOP and local Tea Party organizations.

The One Wisconsin Now press release claims:

Is it here-we-go-again?

[DigitalC]

Everyone knows the real danger is a couple of new black panthers standing on a street corner looking mean and black.

[davidm]

I have to assume that there is something of this nature going on somewhere at some level for every election.

[puddleglum]

If you click through the links and read the story, there is absolutely nothing objectionable going on. There is a plan to send postcards to all registered voters. If any come back as being sent to an undeliverable address, they will send someone out to see if there is actually a residence at the address. If someone has listed an address that is not a residence then these people plan on contesting the registration.
There are accusations of voter fraud, which if true are very serious, and these people are taking common sense actions to prevent it this time. If there is no voter fraud, these people are just wasting their own time, and if there is these people are performing a vital public service. Kudos to them.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

If you click through the links and read the story, there is absolutely nothing objectionable going on. There is a plan to send postcards to all registered voters. If any come back as being sent to an undeliverable address, they will send someone out to see if there is actually a residence at the address.

That's not how they did it in 2004, anyway; the postcard alone was the foundation for the "caging lists."

Originally Posted by puddleglum

There are accusations of voter fraud, which if true are very serious . . .

Bear in mind that they never turned out to be true before, even though the Bush Admin put a lot of effort, money and political capital into trying to prove otherwise.

[Chronos]

There are accusations of voter fraud, which if true are very serious, and these people are taking common sense actions to prevent it this time. If there is no voter fraud, these people are just wasting their own time, and if there is these people are performing a vital public service. Kudos to them.

There are accusations of voter fraud, and if true, it's these very people perpetrating it. That's not worthy of kudos.

[puddleglum]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

That's not how they did it in 2004, anyway; the postcard alone was the foundation for the "caging lists."

Bear in mind that they never turned out to be true before, even though the Bush Admin put a lot of effort, money and political capital into trying to prove otherwise.

Read the documents linked to, they have a 4 stage process, the postcard is step one. The stories of voter fraud in the documents may be apocryphal, but they undermine confidence in our elections. Keeping our elections fair and honest is worthy goal, and the opposition to such common sense measures to keep voter rolls true makes me wonder about the motivations of these progressive groups.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

The stories of voter fraud in the documents may be apocryphal, but they undermine confidence in our elections. Keeping our elections fair and honest is worthy goal, and the opposition to such common sense measures to keep voter rolls true makes me wonder about the motivations of these progressive groups.

Better still it should make you wonder about the motivations of the conservative groups. The "caging lists" as used in previous elections were not sincere efforts to keep the elections fair and honest, they were dishonest voter-suppression tactics, just like the voter-roll purge in Florida under Jeb Bush in 2000. Why should we think it's any different this year, if the same party is doing it?

[Least Original User Name Ever]

I think they're going to use whatever they can within the rules and bend them as much as they can.

[puddleglum]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Better still it should make you wonder about the motivations of the conservative groups. The "caging lists" as used in previous elections were not sincere efforts to keep the elections fair and honest, they were dishonest voter-suppression tactics, just like the voter-roll purge in Florida under Jeb Bush in 2000. Why should we think it's any different this year, if the same party is doing it?

Because the OP made specific allegations, backed up by actual documents. However, if you read the documents they specifically contradict the allegations made. If you are the type to believe that everyone who disagrees with you politically is evil, then you don't need evidence. If you are a fair minded person who looks at evidence before deciding, then the documents linked to should reassure you of the public spiritedness and sincerity of the people slandered by the OP.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

Because the OP made specific allegations, backed up by actual documents. However, if you read the documents they specifically contradict the allegations made. If you are the type to believe that everyone who disagrees with you politically is evil, then you don't need evidence. If you are a fair minded person who looks at evidence before deciding, then the documents linked to should reassure you of the public spiritedness and sincerity of the people slandered by the OP.

Wait, are you referring to this?

Revised draft plan for "Election Observer Program" as of July 14, 5:00pm:

1. Voter Roll Cleanup:
A. Initial Mailing groups by AFP and return of undeliverable mail (expect up to 20 day delay) to WiGOL and then to District Attorneys. AFP is preparing first 500 (update: list derived from voter role in 16th district and will be mailed by July 16). Additional mailing as funding is obtained.
B. Second mailing after Jim K compiles state-wide list of suspect registrations. RPW to finance this process; RPW may coordinate with AFP. The sequence to investigate thereafter is:
a. Liberty/Tea Party groups investigate in field.
b. Report findings to Jim K. to eliminate legitimate errors such as transposed address numbers.
c. Jim checks double-entries.
d. Submit to local DAs and GAB.
C. Utilize “ping Letter” process from GAB. Advise local clerks to send follow-up “ping letter” for final check and status change to “inactive”. If they do not, report to GAB. If GAB does not respond, RPW will consider legal challenge to enforce law.
D. Consider another mailing to college campuses after primary elections.
E. Publicity for VPA; AFP will send email blast regarding the Voter Public Access(VPA). AFP will forward VPA info to Vicki McKenna. AFP will feature VPA message on billboard. (Consider “Did your deceased uncle vote in 2008?”)

<snip>

6. Recruiting Volunteers
A. Utilize Republican list
B. Liberty and tea party groups

<snip>

11. Public Exposure of Problem –
A. Participants in plan must sign a non-disclosure agreement to be drafted by Jon W. and Jim K.

<snip>

VERIFICATION PROCESS USED FOR IDENTIFYING QUESTIONABLE ADDRESSES

<snip>

2) Upon completion of the above mentioned steps, compile notes and information into a single spreadsheet with following the format in which the information was provided
3) Send completed information to RPW via Jon Waclawski (jwaclawski@wisgop.org)
4) When you receive confirmation from Jon Waclawski that he has received the data, delete any and all copies of the data. Wait for further instructions.

<snip>

Affidavit
I, ______________________________, am a resident at _________________________
______________________________ and do hereby certify on this _________day of
__________________________, 2010:
1) That I have reviewed the document above entitled “Verification Process Used for Identifying Questionable Addresses.”
2) That I agree to follow the 5 steps outlined in the document above.
3) That I have read the Nondisclosure and Confidentiality Agreement attached hereto.
4) That I agree to abide by the Nondisclosure and Confidentiality Agreement.
5) That I am a volunteer on this project and am in no way “officially” employed by the Republican Party of Wisconsin.
___________________________
(Signature)
Dated this

Nosirma'am"Bob," this stuff is not such as to reassure us as to the Wisconsin GOP's public-spiritedness nor sincerity.

[BrainGlutton]

And OneWisconsinNow.org, the organization which obtained and posted the above, offers a pretty fair and balanced description of "voter caging":

Voter caging is a notorious voter suppression technique used to challenge the registration status of eligible voters to prevent him or her from voting in an election

Usually, caging occurs when an official-looking, non-forwardable piece of mail is sent to a group of registered voters, often to minorities and students. The parties involved in caging then compile a list of voters whose mail was returned as undeliverable. On Election Day, these organizations will use the undeliverable mail to challenge voters at the polls, utilizing law enforcement and attorneys to support their challenges.

The goal of caging is two-fold. First, is to force as many voters as possible to cast provisional ballots, which require voters to follow-up the day after an election for the ballot to be counted. Historically, about 35% of all provisional ballots are never counted. Additionally, voters whose registration is challenged at the polling place are unlikely to have the required material to complete an Election Day registration, meaning the voter will be turned away at the polls.

The second goal is to create long lines at the polling place as the caging operation challenges voter after voter. Many people cannot afford to sit in line to vote for hours on end. Long lines discourage voters and many simply leave without casting a ballot.

Voter caging is a violation of the Help America Vote Act and is illegal.

[BrainGlutton]

And you might wonder why plausible-deniability of a worker's status as a Republican Party "employee" is required. Somehow I doubt it has much to do with labor law or workers'-compensation law or an employer's vicarious liability for an employee's torts. No, it is probably because of the history pointed out in this article from 2004:

Republicans yesterday continued to challenge the validity of tens of thousands of voter registrations in Ohio and other key states in the presidential election while a coalition of civil rights and labor groups sued the GOP, contending the Republican efforts were aimed at removing eligible minority voters from the rolls.

After initially saying he would not contest a Wednesday ruling halting the challenges, Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell (R) worked with other election officials who asked the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit in Cincinnati to allow GOP challenges to 35,000 voters from mostly urban and minority areas to proceed before the election. As of late last night, the court had not ruled.

Also yesterday, Republicans in Wisconsin attempted to challenge the registrations of 5,600 voters in Milwaukee but were turned down in a unanimous decision by the city's bipartisan election board.

The Republican challenges in Ohio, Wisconsin and other battleground states prompted civil rights and labor unions to sue in U.S. District Court in Newark, saying the GOP is violating a consent decree, issued in the 1980s by Judge Dickinson R. Debevoise and still in effect, that prevents the Republicans from starting "ballot security" programs to prevent voter fraud that target minorities.

[BrainGlutton]

From the Wikipedia article on "voter caging":

Evidence of caging in the United States


1980s

In 1981 and 1986 the Republican National Committee (RNC) sent out letters to predominately African-American neighborhoods. When tens of thousands of them were returned undeliverable, the party successfully challenged the voters and had them deleted from voting rolls. Due to the violation of the Voting Rights Act, the RNC was taken to court. Its officials entered a consent decree which prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that targeted minorities or conducting mail campaigns to "compile voter challenge lists."[5]


2004 US Election

BBC journalist Greg Palast obtained an RNC document entitled "State Implementation Template III.doc" that described Republican election operations for caging plans in numerous states. The paragraph in the document pertaining to caging was:

* Shortly before the 2004 election, Palast also obtained a caging list for Jacksonville, Florida, which contained a high number of African Americans and registered Democrats. The caging list was attached to an email which a Florida Republican party official was sending to RNC headquarters official Tim Griffin.[7][8][9]

* The Republican National Committee sent letters to predominately urban minority areas in Ohio. When 35,000 letters were returned as undeliverable, the party employed poll watchers to challenge the voters. Voting rights groups challenged the RNC in a case that went to the Supreme Court, but the RNC was not stopped from challenging those voters. Similarly, the RNC sent out 130,000 letters in Philadelphia hoping to cage voters there. Philadelphia is a city with a majority African American population that votes heavily Democratic. The Republicans were attempting to cage votes by people who were likely to vote for the Democratic candidates.[10]

* In the Ohio court challenge, the RNC submitted a caging list that targeted urban and African-American areas in and around Cleveland.[11]

* Journalists found evidence that the Republican National Committee (RNC) attempted to use caging to suppress votes in five states in the 2004 US presidential election. For example, in New Jersey RNC officials used caging lists to challenge absentee ballots and absentee ballot requests.[11]


2008 US Election

* As noted earlier, the Republican Secretary of State in Michigan was found purging voters from voting rolls when voter ID cards were returned as undeliverable. In the court challenge, the federal judge ordered the state to reinstate the voters.[12] The judge ruled that the state's actions were in violation of the NVRA. His decision noted that there was no way to prevent qualified voters from being disfranchised as their cards may be returned as undeliverable due to postal error, clerical error, inadvertent routing within a multi-unit dwelling, and even simple misspelling or transposition of numbers in an address.[13]

* In December 2007, Kansas GOP Chair Kris Kobach sent an email boasting, "[T]o date, the Kansas GOP has identified and caged more voters in the last 11 months than the previous two years!"[14]

* Republicans sent out fundraising mailers to voters in five Florida counties: Duval, Hillsborough, Collier, Miami-Dade and Escambia, with 'do not forward' on the letters. The mailers included inaccurate Voter ID numbers and ostensibly confirmed with voters they were registered as Republican. The RNC declined to discuss the mailer with the St. Petersburg Times. A representative denied the mailing had anything to do with caging. "Two top Florida elections officials, both Republicans, faulted the GOP mailing, calling it "confusing" and "unfortunate" because of a potential to undermine voter confidence by making them question the accuracy of their registrations." Some officials expressed concern that the RNC would try to use a caging list derived from the mailers.[15]

* In Northern California reports of voter caging emerged when letters marked 'do not forward' were sent to Democrats with fake voter ID numbers. The description of the letters matches the letters that were sent out in Florida.[16] See the caging letter that was sent out here. Many details on the letters were false; for example, the letters referred to a Voter Identification Division but RNC personnel said they had no such department. The RNC did not return calls from a news organization regarding the letters.

* On October 5, 2008 the Republican Lt. Governor of Montana, John Bohlinger, accused the Montana Republican Party of vote caging to purge 6,000 voters from three counties which trend Democratic. These purges included decorated war veterans and active duty soldiers.[17]

* The New York Times found in its review of state records that unlawful actions in six states led to widespread voter purges, which could have impact on the 2008 elections. Some of the actions were apparently the result of mistakes by the states' handling voter registrations and files as they tried to comply with a 2002 federal law related to running elections. While neither party was singled out, because the Democratic Party registered more new voters this year, Democratic voters were more adversely affected by such actions of state officials.[18]

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

Read the documents linked to, they have a 4 stage process, the postcard is step one. The stories of voter fraud in the documents may be apocryphal, but they undermine confidence in our elections. Keeping our elections fair and honest is worthy goal, and the opposition to such common sense measures to keep voter rolls true makes me wonder about the motivations of these progressive groups.

When you can show me that equal numbers of registered Democrats and Republicans are on the list, then I'll believe that it's some high-minded attempt to protect the integrity of the ballot box. Until then, I'll just continue to think that it's a bunch of rich white men convincing a bunch of other white men (and women) to help make sure that the niggers, fags, and hippies don't get a vote.

[rowrrbazzle]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Anyways, I was kinda hoping none of this would arise this year -- because the Dems don't do this sort of thing

Have you never heard of Chicago, where voting rights are so important they're exercised post mortem?

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle

Have you never heard of Chicago, where voting rights are so important they're exercised post mortem?

Yes. But that's from a mostly bygone age of urban-machine politics.

[puddleglum]

The judge ruled that the state's actions were in violation of the NVRA. His decision noted that there was no way to prevent qualified voters from being disfranchised as their cards may be returned as undeliverable due to postal error, clerical error, inadvertent routing within a multi-unit dwelling, and even simple misspelling or transposition of numbers in an address.

Thus the fraud prevention initiative mentioned in the OP took steps beyond mailing the cards. They went to each address and recorded whether or not it was a residence. They had four different steps to make sure the address did not exist. That way they could determine if any of the judge's concerns were valid and whether mistakes led to the cards return or if it was a genuine attempt at voter fraud. This is obviously a good faith attempt to address concerns about past fraud prevention initiatives. Despite systematically addressing the concerns, they still get accused of voter suppression by this group. It appears to me that this On Wisconsin group is just prejudiced. Is there anything that could be done to prevent voter fraud that this On Wisconsin now would approve of?

[Really Not All That Bright]

I can't get too worked up about any potential threat which is "based on what we have heard".

[Chronos]

Is there anything that could be done to prevent voter fraud that this On Wisconsin now would approve of?

Here's a simple step that could be taken: Do absolutely nothing. The historical record proves that this method is extremely successful, and reduces the incidence of voter fraud to nearly zero.

[ralph124c]

I wonder how many dead people will be voting in the Chicago elections, this year.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by ralph124c

I wonder how many dead people will be voting in the Chicago elections, this year.

No, you don't.

[Evil One]

The Republican gains this year will obviously be due to voter suppression and intimidation. "Wall Street fat cats" will stop lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills just long enough to roam the streets, disenfranchising the noble and oppressed for their evil amusement.

[elucidator]

Well, its their country. We just rent.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

Thus the fraud prevention initiative mentioned in the OP took steps beyond mailing the cards. They went to each address and recorded whether or not it was a residence. They had four different steps to make sure the address did not exist. That way they could determine if any of the judge's concerns were valid and whether mistakes led to the cards return or if it was a genuine attempt at voter fraud. This is obviously a good faith attempt to address concerns about past fraud prevention initiatives. Despite systematically addressing the concerns, they still get accused of voter suppression by this group. It appears to me that this On Wisconsin group is just prejudiced. Is there anything that could be done to prevent voter fraud that this On Wisconsin now would approve of?

AGAIN. How about they do it equally for Republican and Democratic registered voters?

[BrainGlutton]

Check out the new Voter Suppression Wiki.

[Mr. Moto]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Here's a simple step that could be taken: Do absolutely nothing. The historical record proves that this method is extremely successful, and reduces the incidence of voter fraud to nearly zero.

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Bear in mind that they never turned out to be true before, even though the Bush Admin put a lot of effort, money and political capital into trying to prove otherwise.

I really dont think this line will work anymore:

As Los Angeles prosecutors investigate potential voter fraud in Bell, several residents have told The Times that city officials pressed them to fill out absentee ballots in a way that election experts say may have violated state law.

From here. The city officials in Bell used this rigged victory to push through salary increases and other corruption.

I do not want challenges to be used inappropriately, but I also do not want legitimate charges waved away.

[Chronos]

You appear to have overlooked a few words in that quote, such as "investigate", "potential", and "may". Come back when you have evidence. It's OK, we'll wait.

[a35362]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Check out the new Voter Suppression Wiki.

This link doesn't work -- it says the domain has expired...?

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by a35362

This link doesn't work -- it says the domain has expired...?

It worked when I posted it. I got it from the external links at the bottom of the Wikipedia page on Voter Suppression. But, I click that and get the same result you did.

[Mr. Moto]

We must have successfully suppressed it.

[a35362]

I got a fundraising e-mail from the Alexi Giannoulias campaign (he's the Democrat running for Obama's old Senate seat against Republican Mark Kirk). Apparently Kirk was recorded bragging about how many lawyers he has hired to fight supposed Democratic voter intimidation tactics in Chicago and Rockford (which happen to have a lot of black voters).

Here is a YouTube Young Turks clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPoxRBVs2P4

If you are in Chicago or Rockford, I for one would like to know if you see any weird flyers or posters or get any weird phone calls a la Virginia in 2008. I'm not sure what Kirk is up to, if anything (although I think the fuss over the word "jigger" is just silly). If Kirk really thought there was voter intimidation going on, why would he concentrate on the most heavily black parts of the state?

[Cyberhwk]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton's Cite

a. Liberty/Tea Party groups investigate in field.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Well, probably a lot of them will take it too literally and spend some time poking around fields.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Well, probably a lot of them will take it too literally and spend some time poking around fields.

Marshall Field's, Kim Fields, the Field Museum, Wrigley Field...

[Chronos]

Marshall Field's, Kim Fields, the Field Museum, Wrigley Field...

Are you suggesting we disenfranchise the Blues Brothers?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Well, they are dead.

[Bill Door]

I have a cunning plan. Any individual registered voter can challenge someone's vote, providing the challenger has not already voted. If it turns out the challenger is mistaken and the voter is legally registered, the challenger surrenders their right to vote in this election, and loses the right to challenge any other voters.

This allows challenges if the challenger is confident, and has a punitive element for frivolous challenges. Shouldn't there be a penalty for attempting to deprive a citizen of the franchise without sufficient evidence?

[elucidator]

I think there is a lot of misnomer at play here, the natural assumption that the effort is geared to suppressing the individual voter. The goal isn't so much to stop as to slow.

Personally, I think it is a disgrace that voter access should be so tied to the economic status of the citizen. Makes me mad as hell. The voter in an economically deprived district must wait longer than his fellow citizen in a posh suburb, it is far more of a hassle, it requires far more determination.

If the Republicans can slow that process down, they will discourage huge numbers of voters who are reliably Dem. As well, if they can circulate rumors that people who have some legal issue (classic example: parking tickets) will be arrested, they can discourage voters.

No one imagines that an election can be swayed by picking off a few poorly documented voters, that's chickenfeed. But if they can make an onerous and difficult process even more difficult, if they can make the poor voter stand for four or five hours to exercise his right to vote, they will win.

"Voter fraud" is a slimy, disgusting, underhanded effort to achieve by trickery and cunning what could not be achieved by honest politicking. It results in the more affluent citizen having more of a right to vote than his less advantaged fellow citizen, and it is a disgrace. And there isn't the slightest doubt who's greasy fingerprints are on it.

[Boyo Jim]

You can't call it fraud, but it certainly is an attempt to suppress voters -- a Spanish language TV ad, funded by a conservative group, that specifically says, "Don't Vote" as a means of protesting the empty promises of Democrats. Here's one story about it being pulled after Univision refused to run it. But it has been run.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

You can't call it fraud, but it certainly is an attempt to suppress voters -- a Spanish language TV ad, funded by a conservative group, that specifically says, "Don't Vote" as a means of protesting the empty promises of Democrats. Here's one story about it being pulled after Univision refused to run it. But it has been run.

And this group that ran it, "Latinos for Reform," is headed by a GOP operative.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

And this group that ran it, "Latinos for Reform," is headed by a GOP operative.

See also SourceWatch.

Latinos for Reform is conservative political action committee that shares the same Alexandria, Virginia post office box as several other registered PACs, including the Virginia Liberty Fund, Storm Chasers, and the American Spirit Fund. The treasurer of all three groups is Republican political operative Susan Arceneaux, and the assistant treasurer of all three groups is Christopher J. Ward. Arceneaux is a resident of Fairfax, Virginia, is a well-connected member of the Republican Party, as well as a "long time aide of Dick Armey, a former Congressman from Texas and a close friend of Bush Jr. Arceneaux also is tied in with a number of other Republican groups close to Bush Jr. NY Times 8/24/04). [1][1] In filings for all three groups, Arceneaux gives her residential address as "10597 John Ayres Drive," which, along with the Latinos for Reform's P.O. Box number (P.O. Box 26366, Alexandria, Virginia, 22313), is also the address of the Admiral Roy F. Hoffman Foundation, and the address of Political Compliance Services, a consulting firm operated by Susan Arceneaux, and the same consulting firm used by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.[2]

[Zephyurs]

Originally Posted by Evil One

The Republican gains this year will obviously be due to voter suppression and intimidation. "Wall Street fat cats" will stop lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills just long enough to roam the streets, disenfranchising the noble and oppressed for their evil amusement.

Trivializing voter suppression is a cute rhetorical move. So is bringing in fabricated arguments to mock people who do have concern about historically disenfranchised groups being... disenfranchised.

But if voter suppression really does have no effect on electoral results, why does the Republican Party and affiliated groups spend six or seven figures on it every election cycle? Surely a half million dollars would be better spent in Alaska, Kentucky, or Illinois to assure a Senate seat? Or are you arguing that Republicans hate minorities so much that they're willing to give up a Senate seat or two just for the pleasure of depriving black people the right to vote?

It's frankly offensive that you think so lowly of Republicans and conservatives.

[Evil One]

The targets of my mockery are those who consider requiring someone to show identification or proof of residence as "intimidation". Every time Republicans have the gall to suggest that some steps be taken to prevent people from voting more than once or moving from one precinct (or city) to another to vote, Democrats howl "intimidation". Requiring someone to identify themselves with a picture ID is not "disenfranchisement" or "intimidation". Neither is asking them to verify their address. Steps like that prevent voter fraud.

It amuses me that some people are so wedded to their ideology that they cannot accept the fact that their political philosophy is not embraced by the majority of voters. Blaming a loss on "dirty tricks" is certainly easier on the emotions than accepting the fact that your side lost.

Get ready. Those vote-stealing, disenfranching dirty tricksters will be working overtime on November 2. That'll be the real explanation, won't it...

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Get ready. Those vote-stealing, disenfranching dirty tricksters will be working overtime on November 2. That'll be the real explanation, won't it...

Actually, those who are bound and determined to turn away ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more people falsely as they do justly, who "just happen" to be outside their demographic, are the ones afraid of what the masses think.

[elucidator]

Blocking one or two voters here and there is for chumps. The real vote suppression isn't about chickenfeed like hassling one voter or another, its about slowing the process down to a point where people give up. Its about clogging the front of the line while you bicker endlessly over whether or not somebody is properly identified.

Most every time a voter in the poor part of town goes to the polls and sees a line four-five hours long and says "Man, I just don't have time for this", thats another Dem vote gone, eight times out of ten. You think they don't know that?

Just imagine, they pass the elucidator Fair Voting Bill, spend bucks to register as many people as possible, and make it mandatory that polling places be equipped to make access equitable, so that a poor man spends no more time waiting to vote than a richer one. Of course, this means its likely a hell of a lot more poor people are going to vote. This has not escaped my attention.

But hey! Republicans will love it, it will cut down on voter fraud! And its all about the voter fraud, right?

[Evil One]

I agree that having to wait in line for hours is de facto disenfranchisement. I think the number of polling places should be tied to population and staffed accordingly.

People should be required to show ID to cut down on fraud and they should be able to vote in a timely manner regardless of social status or zip code. Republican run areas should do this first. It would cut down on the accusations of unfairness.

[gonzomax]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...ression_scheme Not enough to foreclose on peoples homes, but the Repubs in Michigan tried to also take away their voter rights. Gotta love the Repubs, they play to win. You don't have a right to vote if it might go against them.

[Zephyurs]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Get ready. Those vote-stealing, disenfranching dirty tricksters will be working overtime on November 2. That'll be the real explanation, won't it...

Originally Posted by Zephyurs

... if voter suppression really does have no effect on electoral results, why does the Republican Party and affiliated groups spend six or seven figures on it every election cycle? Surely a half million dollars would be better spent in Alaska, Kentucky, or Illinois to assure a Senate seat? Or are you arguing that Republicans hate minorities so much that they're willing to give up a Senate seat or two just for the pleasure of depriving black people the right to vote?

It's not about making sure everyone has IDs. If it were, why do they target only urban areas and areas with a high minority presence?

If they were so concerned about IDs, why couldn't they just as well spend their time at lily white suburbs challenging people to provide utility bills, birth certificates, and signed affidavits from their mortgage lenders?

Saying "well, I think no one should have to stand in line" gives you an implausible deniability, but isn't particularly convincing when you're defending targeted attempts to increase the lengths of lines and suppress minority turnout.

It's not a matter of thinking improperly identified voters shouldn't be challenged--I think it should be easier to register and identify yourself, but the law's the law. The issues are the effects the challenges have on everyone else, the increase in length of lines, and making election day FUBAR at heavily minority areas.

[Mr. Moto]

Since by and large it is the job of the opposition party to keep a particular party honest (among other things) you surely won't mind that I point out examples of Democratic candidates and operatives helping set up "Tea Party" spoiler candidates?

In NJ-3, they went so far as to recruit a candidate and use Democratic volunteers to get him on the ballot.

The level of involvement seems less in PA-7, but Democrats still comprised about half of the petition signatures.

This Democratic operative in Michigan had to resign after news of this kind of electoral trickery started to hurt the Democratic party as a whole.

Now, the PA-7 news could easily be dismissed if the other cases showing more direct involvement weren't cropping up. And this is starting to look like a pattern, frankly.

Speaking personally, I wish those Spanish-language ads hadn't aired, as that will backfire badly. Likewise this kind of trickery could easily backfire on the Democrats. I won't make any moral claims for either side's behavior since I don't have expectations that two large parties seeking power will act morally well, even if I may have a belief that it is for the better that one or the other wins.