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  #1  
Old 11-19-2010, 12:30 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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What does Kratom (herb) do? Anyone here tried it?

Kratom is a legal herb from Thailand which can be easily purchased online. Supposedly when you drink a tea made from the leaves, it produces a euphoric state. Someone on Yahoo Answers had this to say about it:

Quote:
It doesn't taste nice, it's very bitter, like over-steeped green tea x10, but it's more tolerable than alcohol and it doesn't have an aftertaste. Normally when I drink Kratom I first feel very energized. Think drinking a few cups of coffee minus the jitters and anxiety. I feel very clear headed, almost euphoric but also relaxed which makes it a great drink to spark intense conversation. After a while, I would say anywhere from half an hour to several hours later this feeling becomes a very sedated, opiated state. I would compare this feeling to a relatively small dose of prescription painkillers. It becomes almost the opposite of the initial effects, and makes laying down doing absolutely nothing feel wonderful. Effects seem to vary from person to person, and it seems like some don't experience anything the first time they try it. You won't exactly get f***ed up, but you do get a buzz. I drink Kratom pretty regularly and would definitely recommend it. If you do decide to try it, buy it online as most head shops charge an insanely jacked up price.
Sounds interesting. Has anyone here ever tried this herb and if so, what effects did it have on you?
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2010, 12:35 AM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Never heard of it, but if you have a drug question, Erowid.org is the place to look.
  #3  
Old 11-19-2010, 04:28 AM
Nametag Nametag is offline
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They're just screwing with you. Kratoms are tiny particles of racism; they're the basic building blocks of the KKK.
  #4  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:06 AM
ExcitedIdiot ExcitedIdiot is offline
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I tried it for the first time about month ago. It felt almost like taking 10 mgs of hydrocodone. I slept great and woke up refreshed the next morning. I made the mistake of taking more the next night, redosing and taking larger doses, and woke up one of the worst hangovers of my life. My advice is tread lightly.

Last edited by ExcitedIdiot; 11-19-2010 at 07:08 AM.. Reason: Grammar
  #5  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:40 PM
dzero dzero is offline
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The active ingredient seems to be mitragynine. If you google it, it seems to be an opioid with stimulant properties. It also appears to be highly addictive. The effect is supposed to be like "speedballing", i.e., combining a stimulant with an opiate (I think).

side note: John Belusi died from speedballing (meth and heroin I think).
  #6  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:51 PM
MPB in Salt Lake MPB in Salt Lake is offline
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Originally Posted by dzero View Post
side note: John Belusi died from speedballing (meth and heroin I think).
Cocaine and heroin, not meth......
  #7  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:16 PM
berff berff is offline
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Actually, I have quite a lot of experience with kratom. I've been taking it almost every morning for the last four years or so. And it does make me feel very energized but sedated at the same time...and also very motivated. I usually have a cup of kratom tea at work along with my coffee, and I'm always extremely ambitious and clear-headed at work. I guess you could say I"m addicted to it but I really don't mind.

And yes, it tastes pretty awful. But I still enjoy it every morning.

Last edited by berff; 11-19-2010 at 11:17 PM..
  #8  
Old 11-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Snake Plissken Snake Plissken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berff View Post
Actually, I have quite a lot of experience with kratom. I've been taking it almost every morning for the last four years or so. And it does make me feel very energized but sedated at the same time...and also very motivated. I usually have a cup of kratom tea at work along with my coffee, and I'm always extremely ambitious and clear-headed at work. I guess you could say I"m addicted to it but I really don't mind.

And yes, it tastes pretty awful. But I still enjoy it every morning.

I see its used for easing opiate withdrawls. Wish I knew about that when I cold turkeyed vicodin last summer. Where do you find stuff like that, head shops, Natural medicine stores?

Last edited by Snake Plissken; 11-20-2010 at 12:42 PM..
  #9  
Old 11-20-2010, 01:51 PM
berff berff is offline
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I actually prefer kratom to vicodin or other opiates but I'm probably in the minority. All the kratom I've ever bought has been from online sources-if you simply do a google search for "buy kratom" you'll find a huge list of suppliers. I've tried it from many different sources and don't really have a preference for any one in particular as I believe most kratom comes from the same source anyway. If you're going to try it though, I'd recommend Bali kratom (finely powdered). Right now I'm paying a little over $200 for 1.2 Kg and it lasts me about 4 months or so but you could just buy 10-20 grams for very little if you just want to try it.

I've never seen it sold anywhere locally though.
  #10  
Old 11-20-2010, 02:40 PM
Stringer Stringer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcitedIdiot View Post
I tried it for the first time about month ago. It felt almost like taking 10 mgs of hydrocodone. I slept great and woke up refreshed the next morning. I made the mistake of taking more the next night, redosing and taking larger doses, and woke up one of the worst hangovers of my life. My advice is tread lightly.
This was my experience as well. You have to be pretty careful not to "overdose," or you get nausea and bad hangovers.

I didn't think it was that great (the taste, ugh) and I still have most of the powder somewhere.
  #11  
Old 11-20-2010, 05:52 PM
ExcitedIdiot ExcitedIdiot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
This was my experience as well. You have to be pretty careful not to "overdose," or you get nausea and bad hangovers.

I didn't think it was that great (the taste, ugh) and I still have most of the powder somewhere.
Everyone says the taste is bad, but it didn't bother me. At first i just mixed it in with water, which tastes like tea to me. Swallowing the grit at the bottom did make me gag a bit. After that I mixed it with applesauce, it looks like baby poo, but I couldn't taste it at all.
  #12  
Old 11-20-2010, 06:32 PM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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Iím curious now, so I ordered 10 grams of a product called ĎBali Xí from this outfit. Iíll report back in week or so. Anybody have any idea how much I should use on my first trial? Itís a mixture of the dried leaf and the extract, so it must be more potent than the leaf alone.
  #13  
Old 11-20-2010, 09:51 PM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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I'm going to try it, it sounds good. I'll let you know what it feels like.
  #14  
Old 11-21-2010, 01:05 AM
Nehemiah Samedi Nehemiah Samedi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berff View Post
Actually, I have quite a lot of experience with kratom. I've been taking it almost every morning for the last four years or so. And it does make me feel very energized but sedated at the same time...and also very motivated. I usually have a cup of kratom tea at work along with my coffee, and I'm always extremely ambitious and clear-headed at work. I guess you could say I"m addicted to it but I really don't mind.

And yes, it tastes pretty awful. But I still enjoy it every morning.
Do you feel any withdrawals if you stop abruptly? Do you take opiates as well, or did you in the past before you began taking kratom?
  #15  
Old 11-21-2010, 02:03 AM
berff berff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nehemiah Samedi View Post
Do you feel any withdrawals if you stop abruptly? Do you take opiates as well, or did you in the past before you began taking kratom?
I'm not even sure any more. The last day I went without any kratom was back in February 2009 but I've cut down significantly since then; at the time I was consuming approximately 50 grams per day. Now I measure out only 10 grams per day which is perfect for me. But when I was using 50 grams of kratom per day and I'd stopped abruptly, the withdrawals were one of the worst experiences of my life, I think. The dysphoria, insomnia, restless legs, coldness, lack of appetite, etc. lasted for over a week.

I use opiates on occassion but usually no more than once per month so I've never experienced actual opiate withdrawals. The only opiates I've tried were vicodin, morphine and poppy pod tea and all have paled in comparison to kratom for me. But then again, kratom does have a nice stimulating effect in addition to the sedation so that might be the reason.

And to the person above who just ordered some, I've used that supplier several times in the past and I've always been pleased with their product. I just hope this substance doesn't catch on too much and end up being scheduled. Hopefully, the terrible taste will help keep the kids away...

Oh and also, if you're just trying this for the first time, do not try to use anywhere near 10 grams at once. I would say maybe 1 or 2 at the most, especially since it's enhanced.

Last edited by berff; 11-21-2010 at 02:06 AM.. Reason: forgot the letter L
  #16  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:11 PM
Nehemiah Samedi Nehemiah Samedi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berff View Post
I'm not even sure any more. The last day I went without any kratom was back in February 2009...
Sorry for asking so many questions, I'm just very interested in this substance. It seems to be pretty much identical to other opiates in it's spectrum of effects. If you mind me asking, do you find yourself getting constipated? Do you think that kratom could be successfully used as a substitute for somebody such as a heroin abuser, if their tolerance had been reduced to an appropriate level before the switch? Have you noticed an increased prevalence of dental problems since you've been taking it?
  #17  
Old 11-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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Well, I was digging around last night and I found a message board post by a pharmacy student who said that the active substance in kratom does not have a universal affinity for all of the opioid receptors, but only binds to the ones that are responsible for opiumís antidepressant properties.
  #18  
Old 11-21-2010, 06:43 PM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nehemiah Samedi View Post
If you mind me asking, do you find yourself getting constipated?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-hydroxymitragynine

Second paragraph.
  #19  
Old 11-21-2010, 07:00 PM
SparkleLilly SparkleLilly is offline
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Um, does this not seem like a HORRIBLE idea? You are buying a drug you have never tried and do not know proper dosing for. It's addictive. You don't know what OD symptoms are, or what interactions it might have. You don't know what the plant would look like properly, but you are willing to get it from strangers overseas online, knowing full well that many prescription meds sold online are counterfeit. This sounds like an ER visit or worse in the making.

Hope you don't end up with Jimson weed, repackaged.

::shakes head
  #20  
Old 11-21-2010, 08:00 PM
Nehemiah Samedi Nehemiah Samedi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Washoe View Post
Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my question at all. Pretty much every opiate/opiod has constipation listed as an effect, but how much they really do constipate people varies wildly from drug to drug. I'm trying to get a feeling for how much this one in particular really affects a real person, which is why I chose to use this opportunity to ask a real person.

Last edited by Nehemiah Samedi; 11-21-2010 at 08:01 PM..
  #21  
Old 11-21-2010, 11:17 PM
berff berff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nehemiah Samedi View Post
Sorry for asking so many questions, I'm just very interested in this substance. It seems to be pretty much identical to other opiates in it's spectrum of effects. If you mind me asking, do you find yourself getting constipated? Do you think that kratom could be successfully used as a substitute for somebody such as a heroin abuser, if their tolerance had been reduced to an appropriate level before the switch? Have you noticed an increased prevalence of dental problems since you've been taking it?
Actually, I have never had any issues with constipation although it's possible that others experience it. I can't really answer your question about using it as a substitution for heroin due to my limited experience with opiates although I've heard of people using it for that purpose. I'm kind of curious about your last question though as I have, in fact, had at least three or four cavities in the past few years, which is more than usual for me. Is this common among opiate users? If anything, I'd say it is probably because kratom seems to increase my cravings for sugar for some reason as I never used to care much for sweets before. But I do take very good care of my teeth otherwise and I try to use sugar substitutes now.

Also, I would like to credit kratom with helping me quit smoking. I smoked nearly two packs of cigarettes per day for over 10 years until I quit abruptly almost three years ago and haven't had any cravings since.
  #22  
Old 11-21-2010, 11:45 PM
Nehemiah Samedi Nehemiah Samedi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berff View Post
I'm kind of curious about your last question though as I have, in fact, had at least three or four cavities in the past few years, which is more than usual for me. Is this common among opiate users?
Tooth decay is pretty common among opiate users. Partially because of the sugar cravings, but also because they tend to cause dry mouth, which creates a better environment for the bacteria in your mouth. I have also read in one of my textbooks that opiates also leach calcium from your bones and teeth, making one more predisposed over time to not only dental problems (tooth decay, easier chipping, etch) but also an increased likelihood of broken bones, spinal problems and other such things.
  #23  
Old 11-22-2010, 12:38 AM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nehemiah Samedi View Post
I'm trying to get a feeling for how much this one in particular really affects a real person, which is why I chose to use this opportunity to ask a real person.
Gotcha. OK, if I stop posting for a couple of days around the middle of next week, you'll know I'm still on the can.
  #24  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:27 PM
Siam Sam Siam Sam is offline
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Kratom is illegal in Thailand. Malaysia, too. No doubt other countries in the region.
  #25  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:44 PM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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Originally Posted by SparkleLilly View Post
You don't know what the plant would look like properly, but you are willing to get it from strangers overseas online, knowing full well that many prescription meds sold online are counterfeit. This sounds like an ER visit or worse in the making.
If I get it, I'm getting the whole leaves, not the powdered form or extract. But after reading some of the Erowid experiences, I'm having doubts about whether to try it or not because many people apparently report stomach trouble as one of the side effects and I don't want to deal with that. I may just try a very small amount.
  #26  
Old 11-23-2010, 05:41 PM
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My 20g of kratom leaf just arrived today, prompted by this thread.

Will get back to you with my experiences, but don't want to take it on a work night.
  #27  
Old 11-23-2010, 09:45 PM
Siam Sam Siam Sam is offline
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I can tell you it's pretty much thought of as sort of a poor man's marijuana over here, except you don't smoke it. (At least, I don't think you do.) I think it's official classification is something like "low-level narcotic" by the local drug agency. Not sure of the exact wording, but it's something like that.

Searching for more info, I found this study.
  #28  
Old 11-23-2010, 09:48 PM
Analogue Skywalker Analogue Skywalker is offline
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Part of my paycheck comes from this wonderful herb.

I am a manager at a medicinal herbs and tea shop in the mid-west. About four years ago people started to come into my store asking about kratom.

So we did some research and started to sell it.

We were a little apprehensive about it. We sell over 450 herbs historically used for medicine. We had read a lot of different things about Kratom. Positive and Negative. Kratom being lumped into legal highs, such as salvia, san pedro, and mimosa (DMT containing root bark), we had our concerns. It was a big departure from echinacea , goldenseal, ginseng, raspberry leaf, and pau d'arco.

After researching it more, we found that it's related to the coffee plant, it is high in EGCG (the same antioxidant that is praised in Green Tea). It is an immune booster. It is a good plant medicine for diarrhea. It contains a chemical very related to Yohimbine, a chemical used for Erectile Dysfunction.

We slowly noticed a pattern. The people purchasing the Kratom from us were not teenage kids (Although, We do not sell to those under 18, we don't have many asking) They are adults, who have had a previous addiction to serious opiates. I have met a heroin addict , a liquid morphine addict, an oxycontin addict and a serious hydrocodone addict. All have kicked the heavier stuff, using Kratom. Apparently, the withdrawal from Kratom is nil compared to heavier opiates.


In small doses, it acts a stimulant. In larger doses, a weird combo of stimulant and opioid. Heavy doses, or double dosing will cause a nasty hangover. A kin to feeling like you are stuck on a small craft in a choppy ocean after drinking a lot of whiskey. Hungover and sea sick is not a good feeling. How ever, sticking to a 3-7 gram dose of most strains I have tried is not a bad feeling.
  #29  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:38 AM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Analogue Skywalker View Post
I am a manager at a medicinal herbs and tea shop in the mid-west.
That sounds like a cool gig. You should start an ďask theĒ thread.
  #30  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:24 AM
lorene lorene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Skywalker View Post

We slowly noticed a pattern. The people purchasing the Kratom from us were not teenage kids (Although, We do not sell to those under 18, we don't have many asking) They are adults, who have had a previous addiction to serious opiates. I have met a heroin addict , a liquid morphine addict, an oxycontin addict and a serious hydrocodone addict. All have kicked the heavier stuff, using Kratom. Apparently, the withdrawal from Kratom is nil compared to heavier opiates.
How is this different from changing addictions...or is it? Someone upthread described it as "highly addictive". Is the difference merely that this is legal and other opiates may or may not be (depending on whether they are prescribed for legitimate reasons)?
  #31  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:31 AM
Khadaji Khadaji is offline
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Since this thread I have tried it twice, searching for an answer to my chronic fatigue.

It seems to give me more energy... I am not sure though if I am able to concentrate any better. Energy without the concentration won't be enough. But I will try it again.

It tastes nasty and I have to find a better way to ingest it. I am thinking about putting it into gelatin capsules.
  #32  
Old 11-28-2010, 03:27 PM
Washoe Washoe is offline
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I found it enjoyable at low doses (≤ 1 gram). Higher doses (≥ 3 grams) made me feel dopey, lethargic, anxious, and constipated. The 1 gram dose was quite pleasant, thoughónice energized clearheaded feeling.
  #33  
Old 08-16-2011, 10:23 PM
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Can you pass a drug test after drinking a cup or two of this Kratom tea? That's what I want to know.
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  #34  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:10 PM
aruvqan aruvqan is offline
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How does it affect blood pressure?
  #35  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:49 PM
PlainJain PlainJain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
My 20g of kratom leaf just arrived today, prompted by this thread.

Will get back to you with my experiences...
So, how was it?
  #36  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:42 PM
Marconi N. Cheese Marconi N. Cheese is offline
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Originally Posted by medstar View Post
Can you pass a drug test after drinking a cup or two of this Kratom tea? That's what I want to know.
I don't think the standard 5 panel will detect this. I imagine there are methods to detect it, but they would be expensive. At any rate it's not illegal, even in the hick state I live in.
  #37  
Old 02-29-2012, 04:03 PM
spankthecrumpet spankthecrumpet is offline
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Hey, berff, how's the opioid addiction going? Folk in another thread need to know!
  #38  
Old 02-29-2012, 04:19 PM
psychonaut psychonaut is offline
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
Kratom is a legal herb from Thailand which can be easily purchased online.
It may be from Thailand, but it's certainly not legal thereóneither now nor when this thread was first posted. In fact, according to the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, it has been illegal to cultivate the herb there since 1943. I'm not sure where the OP is from, but many jurisdictions have similar prohibitions on cultivation, sale, and/or possession.
  #39  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:00 AM
Siam Sam Siam Sam is offline
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Update: Police finally act on krathom trade. ("Krathom" is the usual spelling.)
  #40  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:28 AM
jackdavinci jackdavinci is offline
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Thanks for that. Is that happening by you Siam? I found the article amusing for two reasons.

1) The whole "hey, I thought that was just a pretty indigenous tree in my yard, but now you say I can get high off it too?" angle.

2) There is some concern that people will turn the krathom into 4x100, but the buried lead is that 4x100 also has cough syrup in it. So which is contributing the offending active ingredient? Also, the mild description of the withdrawal effects was amusing.

I'm wondering if the article was tongue in cheek. Or if the situation is more like a bunch of people not really caring but wondering if they are supposed to care.
  #41  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:33 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by Washoe View Post
Well, I was digging around last night and I found a message board post by a pharmacy student who said that the active substance in kratom does not have a universal affinity for all of the opioid receptors, but only binds to the ones that are responsible for opiumís antidepressant properties.
Now this intrigues me. Maybe this thing could be studied and finally get a faster acting antidepressant, for use until the current ones kick in, since they take so long, and actually temporarily increase the risk of suicide during that time.
  #42  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:50 AM
Crazyhorse Crazyhorse is offline
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Update: Police finally act on krathom trade. ("Krathom" is the usual spelling.)
I had never even heard of it and didn't notice this thread when it was new, but a quick google search indicates it is still legal in the US and has a big following with many companies selling it. (except for Indiana which banned it very recently) A similar attempt to ban it in Louisiana was supposedly defeated by outraged citizens backed by a lobby of companies that sell it with the argument that it is not a synthetic drug like bath salts and synthetic marijuana that were being banned in the same bill. They say it is more closely related to the coffee plant than a narcotic plant despite claims of opiate-like effects.

Most of the companies selling it online in the US seem to be very concerned about the Indiana ban, but there isn't any noticeable concern about any developments in Thailand. I would imagine they have long since found other suppliers or grow it themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
My 20g of kratom leaf just arrived today, prompted by this thread. Will get back to you with my experiences, but don't want to take it on a work night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainJain View Post
So, how was it?
I was wondering the same thing. (while we're still allowed to talk about it for the time being) There is no shortage of testimonials and first-hand accounts online but it would be nice to hear a review from a trusted Doper.
  #43  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:52 AM
voltaire voltaire is offline
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Originally Posted by jackdavinci View Post
Thanks for that. Is that happening by you Siam? I found the article amusing for two reasons.

1) The whole "hey, I thought that was just a pretty indigenous tree in my yard, but now you say I can get high off it too?" angle.

2) There is some concern that people will turn the krathom into 4x100, but the buried lead is that 4x100 also has cough syrup in it. So which is contributing the offending active ingredient? Also, the mild description of the withdrawal effects was amusing.

I'm wondering if the article was tongue in cheek. Or if the situation is more like a bunch of people not really caring but wondering if they are supposed to care.
Myself, I found "Bankokians" to be the amusing part. ISTM that Bankokans or Bankokers would sound less silly.
  #44  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:34 AM
jackdavinci jackdavinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse View Post
I was wondering the same thing. (while we're still allowed to talk about it for the time being) There is no shortage of testimonials and first-hand accounts online but it would be nice to hear a review from a trusted Doper.
I'll bite. I suspect method of taking it, and freshness of material, and maybe even expectation/mindset may make a difference, but FWIW: Prompted by this thread I ordered some online and made some tea with it. I would describe it as a mild antidepressant. I felt a tiny bit happier, and a tiny bit more motivated while at the same time being relaxed. So there was not the stress that sometimes comes with stimulation.

But, it was all pretty subtle. On the level of caffeine, but without the jitteriness. Maybe if you took a lot more or smoked it, it might be recreational. But my experience was just pleasant.

There's probably better reports at erowid.
  #45  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:32 AM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is online now
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Folks, it's an opioid. As is heroin, methadone, and oxycodone, to name only a few. Non-medicinal use of opioids is often associated with problems. Sometimes big problems.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 06-12-2012 at 09:35 AM..
  #46  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:46 AM
samclem samclem is offline
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Old thread, updated in a proper manner, now it's drifting. Closed.

samclem, moderator
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