Some Bibel Questions

[Simple Mind]

Hi, I have been spending sometime on trying to remember stories from my Childhood,
mostly Biblical and Religious things which are in fractions in my Mind.
For example, I remember something like this, that God had this fight with the Archangels and that the “fallen” Archangel “Lucifer” got a lease on the World for a certain period of time, in which he can do whatever he want's, so he goes and corrupts the Human with desirous thoughts and greed.
When the lease expires God will defeat “Lucifer” and a 1000?Year Peacefull time will be for the Righteous People?
An other thing are the other Archangels, the ones who got locked up in “the Ark of the Covenant”?
Also something about the “Tower to Babel” and the “Queen of Sheba”? And King Salomon, where are the connections in this stories?
I don't want to read the whole Bible, so I was hopeing to find some enlightment here on the SDM.
Thanks

[Philster]

Especially see the "Satan as Lucifer" section. It'll help you out some:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

.

[Colibri]

I think this is a bit too open-ended for GQ. Although it's not a debate as yet, since it's about religion, it will probably end up that was. Let's try GD.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[srzss05]

Originally Posted by Simple Mind

I don't want to read the whole Bible, so I was hopeing to find some enlightment here on the SDM.
Thanks

Archangels locked up in the Ark of the Covenant? Perhaps you really do need to read the Bible rather than the Cliff Notes version.

[Lemur866]

A lot of the classic Bible Stories are in the Book of Genesis. You could just read that, it's not very long.

[Sage Rat]

Nearly everything that people "know" about Satan/Lucifer/The Apocalypse is legend that has grown up around the Bible. Much of it, in fact, comes from Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, neither of which is part of the religious canon (they're just popular fiction, effectively). Basically whatever you learned as a kid could be any of several thousand options depending not only on your denomination, but who your preacher was and what he fancied.

There isn't really a story for the Ark of the Covenant. God tells the Jews to build it. They do. They stick it in the Temple. Eventually the Temple is destroyed. There's not much more to it than that, unless I'm grossly misrecalling.

Tower of Babel - http://ebible.org/web/Genesis.htm#C11V1

King Solomon and Queen of Sheba - http://ebible.org/web/1Kings.htm

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

There isn't really a story for the Ark of the Covenant. God tells the Jews to build it. They do. They stick it in the Temple. Eventually the Temple is destroyed. There's not much more to it than that, unless I'm grossly misrecalling.

So then where does Indiana Jones come in?

[Capitaine Zombie]

That darn Justin Bibel. Cant stand him.

[foolsguinea]

The stuff with Lucifer & the Archangels is extra-biblical. I don't know who invented it, but it's not anywhere in the Bible that I'm aware of. Well, maybe some bits in some of the smaller books & Apocrypha, but most people in the English-speaking world get it from Milton as Sage Rat said.

The Lease on the World, & its end in a Messianic Age, is from an interpretation of a bit in John's Apocalypse (aka Revelation).

I don't remember anyone locked up in the Ark of the Covenant, but you may be misremembering something else from the Apocalypse--saints under an altar for some unexplained reason, iirc.

The Tower of Babel was a tower in Babel (ancient Babylon) which failed to "reach Heaven"--not really that surprising from the standpoint of modern engineering & planetology.

The Queen of Sheba has a moderately extensive extrabiblical mythology, but was probably just a queen from a now-forgotten power of the day.

[Rick]

Is bibel some type of bisexual tort?

[FriarTed]

This reminds me of some young teen kids who were asking me about a Bible movie featuring a cow from Hell & about Jesus' quilt.

The quilt was easy enough to figure out but it was months before I realized that the 'cow from Hell' was the Judgment against those who worshipped the Golden Calf scene in THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by FriarTed

This reminds me of some young teen kids who were asking me about a Bible movie featuring a cow from Hell & about Jesus' quilt.

The quilt was easy enough to figure out but it was months before I realized that the 'cow from Hell' was the Judgment against those who worshipped the Golden Calf scene in THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Ummm...maybe I'm just particularly dense tonight, but 'Jesus' quilt'?

All I can come up with is Joseph's coat of many colors, but I don't remember that from the movie...

[FriarTed]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

Ummm...maybe I'm just particularly dense tonight, but 'Jesus' quilt'?

All I can come up with is Joseph's coat of many colors, but I don't remember that from the movie...

Sorry, they were two different subjects. Only the Hell-cow was part of the movie. I should have phrased it...

This reminds me of some young teen kids who were asking me about Jesus' quilt & about a Bible movie featuring a cow from Hell.

The quilt, of course, was the Shroud.

[FriarTed]

To the OP- Archangels locked up in the Ark? There were two Cherubim figures on the lid of the Ark. Also, Revelation 9 talks about Four Angels bound at the Euphrates River who have some control over a Demonic Cavalry. Are you thinking about the Biblical accounts of the Glory of God being upon the Ark smiting those who profane it & also the movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark" in which the lid is removed & the Angel of Death smites the Nazis?

[Skammer]

Originally Posted by Simple Mind

For example, I remember something like this, that God had this fight with the Archangels and that the “fallen” Archangel “Lucifer” got a lease on the World for a certain period of time, in which he can do whatever he want's, so he goes and corrupts the Human with desirous thoughts and greed.

This sound like it's from Jonn Milton's Paradise Lost, although I'm not sure about the lease part. It's not in the Bible.

When the lease expires God will defeat “Lucifer” and a 1000?Year Peacefull time will be for the Righteous People?

The thousand years of peace is part of John's Apocolypse, aka the Book of Revelation. There are many, many different interpretations of exactly what this means, when it will occur, who will experence it, etc. If you do decide to read any part of the Bible, I don't recommend starting with Revelation.

An other thing are the other Archangels, the ones who got locked up in “the Ark of the Covenant”?

This is from Raiders of the Lost Ark. In the Bible, the only things in the ark are the tablets of the Ten Commandments, some manna, and maybe some other artifacts. There are angels inscribed on the top of the ark.

Also something about the “Tower to Babel”

Read Genesis chapter 11. Basically the men of the city of Babel decide to build a tower to reach heaven, and God prevents this by confusing their language so they can't talk to each other. This is the Bible's explanation for the multitude of human languages in the world.

and the “Queen of Sheba”? And King Salomon, where are the connections in this stories?

The Queen of Sheba was a Queen from somewhere in Africa who had dealings with Isreal's King Solomon. You can read about her visit to Solomon in I Kings chapter 10 or II Chronicles chapter 9.

I don't want to read the whole Bible, so I was hopeing to find some enlightment here on the SDM.

You don't have to read the whole thing -- most of these stories are less than a few pages if you know where to look.
Thanks[/quote]

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Simple Mind

I don't want to read the whole Bible . . .

The Bible. You will find a short Wikipedia article on each of the 66 books of the canon. Read those, or as many as interest you. (Who really wants or needs to know anything about Proverbs? Ecclesiastes is at least interesting as literature, and as the nearest ancient Hebrew culture ever got to philosophy.) They will cover all the highlights -- and every interpretation ever placed on them by preachers, scholars or theologians.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

The Tower of Babel was a tower in Babel (ancient Babylon) which failed to "reach Heaven"--not really that surprising from the standpoint of modern engineering & planetology.

The surprising part of that story is that God, who had to peer down really hard even to see the construction site from Heaven, seemed to be genuinely frightened that it actually would reach Heaven.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Skammer

The Queen of Sheba was a Queen from somewhere in Africa who had dealings with Isreal's King Solomon.

Or from Yemen. Or both, in a kingdom straddling the Bab el Mandeb strait. See Sheba.

[BobLibDem]

Given what mankind has done to the world, what are the odds on Lucifer getting his deposit back when the lease is over?

[Skammer]

Since it's so short, here is the story of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba:

Originally Posted by II Chronicles 9:1-12

When the queen of Sheba heard of Solomon’s fame, she came to Jerusalem to test him with hard questions. Arriving with a very great caravan—with camels carrying spices, large quantities of gold, and precious stones—she came to Solomon and talked with him about all she had on her mind. Solomon answered all her questions; nothing was too hard for him to explain to her. When the queen of Sheba saw the wisdom of Solomon, as well as the palace he had built, the food on his table, the seating of his officials, the attending servants in their robes, the cupbearers in their robes and the burnt offerings he made at the temple of the LORD, she was overwhelmed.

She said to the king, “The report I heard in my own country about your achievements and your wisdom is true. But I did not believe what they said until I came and saw with my own eyes. Indeed, not even half the greatness of your wisdom was told me; you have far exceeded the report I heard. How happy your people must be! How happy your officials, who continually stand before you and hear your wisdom! Praise be to the LORD your God, who has delighted in you and placed you on his throne as king to rule for the LORD your God. Because of the love of your God for Israel and his desire to uphold them forever, he has made you king over them, to maintain justice and righteousness.”

Then she gave the king 120 talents of gold, large quantities of spices, and precious stones. There had never been such spices as those the queen of Sheba gave to King Solomon.

(The servants of Hiram and the servants of Solomon brought gold from Ophir; they also brought algumwood and precious stones. The king used the algumwood to make steps for the temple of the LORD and for the royal palace, and to make harps and lyres for the musicians. Nothing like them had ever been seen in Judah.)

King Solomon gave the queen of Sheba all she desired and asked for; he gave her more than she had brought to him. Then she left and returned with her retinue to her own country.

[DrFidelius]

You know, you just can't get good algumwood these days. I blame Wal*Mart.

[BrainGlutton]

King Solomon gave the queen of Sheba all she desired and asked for; he gave her more than she had brought to him.

Lots more, if you believe the Ethiopian legend.

600 wives, 400 concubines, and the horndog still had to have a little on the side . . .

[SecondJudith]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

There isn't really a story for the Ark of the Covenant. God tells the Jews to build it. They do. They stick it in the Temple. Eventually the Temple is destroyed. There's not much more to it than that, unless I'm grossly misrecalling.

There's the fun bit where King David recaptures it, then leads the procession dancing around so that his tunic is flying up and all the people can see his bottom (and possibly his genitals?) so his wife gets cross at him for exposing himself in public. That's CRUCIAL to the Ark "story", I think you'll find.

[Scuba_Ben]

SecondJudith, I thought that procession and David's crazy-ass bare-ass dance was specifically when the Ark was finally conveyed to Jerusalem after it had been resting somewhere else for Far Too Long. (During which time the Philistines periodically got bored and played "Swipe the Box.")

[Blaster Master]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

The surprising part of that story is that God, who had to peer down really hard even to see the construction site from Heaven, seemed to be genuinely frightened that it actually would reach Heaven.

It was always my understanding that God wasn't afraid they would reach heaven, but more that they had the pride to believe they could and/or that it was built as an act of defiance against God.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Blaster Master

It was always my understanding that God wasn't afraid they would reach heaven, but more that they had the pride to believe they could and/or that it was built as an act of defiance against God.

And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children built. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do; and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Your interpretation is an obvious one, but it is only an interpretation, and the plain text reads otherwise. For whatever reason, God did not want the people to be able to achieve anything they wished.

[Lasciel]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Your interpretation is an obvious one, but it is only an interpretation, and the plain text reads otherwise. For whatever reason, God did not want the people to be able to achieve anything they wished.

I can't find a cite for it anywhere, but when I was much younger, I remember a particular teacher expounding on that verse for a stretch of Sundays with a theory that the Jewish people had seen either the ziggurats or the pyramids, and were bummed that they didn't have anything like that in their own culture. Resultingly, they essentially handwaved a story about God smiting people in the "way misty past" therefore preventing their great cultural building achievements.

My obvious question was if God had really smitten everyone 'way back in the misty past', how then did the pyramid and ziggurat builders get theirs built to inspire the envy?

It's funny the unfounded 'theories' that get thrown around.

Being older now, I also wonder if that whole theory even deserves that much limited questioning, because I seem to recall the Israelites being a nomadic warfaring people, and spending your time conquering all your neighbors doesn't exactly lend itself to great building projects.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Lasciel

I can't find a cite for it anywhere, but when I was much younger, I remember a particular teacher expounding on that verse for a stretch of Sundays with a theory that the Jewish people had seen either the ziggurats or the pyramids, and were bummed that they didn't have anything like that in their own culture. Resultingly, they essentially handwaved a story about God smiting people in the "way misty past" therefore preventing their great cultural building achievements.

My obvious question was if God had really smitten everyone 'way back in the misty past', how then did the pyramid and ziggurat builders get theirs built to inspire the envy?

It's funny the unfounded 'theories' that get thrown around.

Being older now, I also wonder if that whole theory even deserves that much limited questioning, because I seem to recall the Israelites being a nomadic warfaring people, and spending your time conquering all your neighbors doesn't exactly lend itself to great building projects.

I always took it as simply an explanatory "How the Elephant Got His Trunk" myth -- a way to account for the fact that people speak different languages. The Tower was used just because the Hebrews were vaguely aware that Mesopotamian ziggurats existed -- and, perhaps, that Mesopotamia, at all times after the early Sumerian period, was a land of many tongues.

Actually the Israelites were not ever a nomadic warfaring people, that almost certainly was part of a consciously invented national mythology (so is Exodus), but that's another discussion.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Lasciel

I can't find a cite for it anywhere, but when I was much younger, I remember a particular teacher expounding on that verse for a stretch of Sundays with a theory that the Jewish people had seen either the ziggurats or the pyramids, and were bummed that they didn't have anything like that in their own culture. Resultingly, they essentially handwaved a story about God smiting people in the "way misty past" therefore preventing their great cultural building achievements.

Remember, the people who build the Tower were neither Hebrews nor Jews, being pre-Abraham, so I doubt the legend has anything to do with the lack of big buildings in Jerusalem. I agree it is a just-so story, and the root of the tower legend was no doubt someone coming back to Jerusalem and singing
Everything's up to date in Babylon City
They went about as fur as they can go
They went and built a temple, 20 stories high
That's as high as a temple ought to go.

[Chessic Sense]

Originally Posted by srzss05

Archangels locked up in the Ark of the Covenant? Perhaps you really do need to read the Bible rather than the Cliff Notes version.

[peeve]
Cliff's Notes. Notes belonging to Cliff Hillegas. No crags involved.
[/peeve]

[BrainGlutton]

Oh, and, the Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia. (We have to take their word for that, because nobody is allowed to look at it but one caretaker monk who is never allowed to leave the room.)

[srzss05]

Originally Posted by Chessic Sense

[peeve]
Cliff's Notes. Notes belonging to Cliff Hillegas. No crags involved.
[/peeve]

Sorry. I sometimes type fast and if spellchecker doesn't catch it, I often let it go.

[Simple Mind]

Hi, thanks for all the great input, so it seems as if I have quite a mixup of all possible sources of all the fragments that I remember, so it's not Biblical at all but rather Fictional...

[SecondJudith]

Originally Posted by Scuba_Ben

SecondJudith, I thought that procession and David's crazy-ass bare-ass dance was specifically when the Ark was finally conveyed to Jerusalem after it had been resting somewhere else for Far Too Long. (During which time the Philistines periodically got bored and played "Swipe the Box.")

Yes, and sometimes people would intermittently trip and fall against it and BE SMITED. It was a jolly time all right!

Originally Posted by Simple Mind

Hi, thanks for all the great input, so it seems as if I have quite a mixup of all possible sources of all the fragments that I remember, so it's not Biblical at all but rather Fictional...

For most of the parts you're talking about, it's pretty much the same thing.

[Latro]

Originally Posted by Simple Mind

so it's not Biblical at all but rather Fictional...

LOL

[Bartman]

Originally Posted by Skammer

This is from Raiders of the Lost Ark. In the Bible, the only things in the ark are the tablets of the Ten Commandments, some manna, and maybe some other artifacts. There are angels inscribed on the top of the ark.

Yeah but some of those other "maybe" artifacts are doozies. Along with the boring stuff like Aarons staff, some traditions place 5 golden hemorrhoids and 5 golden rats in there as well. The ones given by the Philistines when they captured and returned the Arc after having 50,000 of them die from the hemorrhoids.

[Skammer]

Originally Posted by SecondJudith

Yes, and sometimes people would intermittently trip and fall against it and BE SMITED. It was a jolly time all right!

Yes, if "trip and fall" means "reach out and touch" and if "sometimes" means "once."

They set the ark of God on a new cart and brought it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab, were guiding the new cart with the ark of God on it, and Ahio was walking in front of it...

When they came to the threshing floor of Nakon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God. (II Samuel 6)

The ark was a holy object and Uzzah knew that touching it was forbidden, that's why it was carried with poles or on a cart.

[EinsteinsHund]

Originally Posted by Skammer

The ark was a holy object and Uzzah knew that touching it was forbidden, that's why it was carried with poles or on a cart.

This particular story always stunned me. Uzzah tries to protect the Ark from falling and getting damaged, and Yahweh smites him for that, on principle. He could be such a prick sometimes.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Bartman

. . . after having 50,000 of them die from the hemorrhoids.

I'll take the bubonic plague, thank you!

[kanicbird]

Originally Posted by Skammer

Read Genesis chapter 11. Basically the men of the city of Babel decide to build a tower to reach heaven, and God prevents this by confusing their language so they can't talk to each other. This is the Bible's explanation for the multitude of human languages in the world.

Commonly taken as that the Bible does not state that and leans more towards mis-communication between people of the same language. The translation is usually 'confuse their language'.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by kanicbird

Commonly taken as that the Bible does not state that and leans more towards mis-communication between people of the same language. The translation is usually 'confuse their language'.

That won't stop something from getting built, though it will lead to delays and cost overruns.

[Skammer]

Originally Posted by EinsteinsHund

This particular story always stunned me. Uzzah tries to protect the Ark from falling and getting damaged, and Yahweh smites him for that, on principle. He could be such a prick sometimes.

Yeah, He's kind of a stickler about the ark. I've been told that the High Priest used to enter the Holy of Holies with a rope tied around his waist, so that in case he got struck dead in there the other guys could haul him out (I'm not sure that is true though).