Fine. Here’s a dedicated thread. I, too, am curious.
AFAIK, Johanna is transgendered (apologizes if wrong and I hope someone corrects me asap if I am), so maybe that fact means more to her than it would someone else.
For example, I’m not gay myself, so I wouldn’t care much to celebrate an anniversary documenting the first gay man on the moon…but I can understand why people who are gay might find it worthy of a celebration.
Well, AFAIC, Mark was a hero and that’s what he should be remembered for. That he was gay is his personal life and has no bearing on how or why he acted. I wouldn’t (if Mark had been Jewish) call him the Jewish Hero of Flight 93. Leaffan, The Other Jeffrey Lebowski, and I just want to know why his status as a hero had to be qualified.
eta - the whole point of remembering and honoring the Heroes of 9/11 is that we’re all Americans, regardless of anything else in our lives.
There are still people who would say that a gay man cannot be anything other than a disgrace to his family and his country. I don’t think that any of those people are posting here on the Dope, mind you…
I don’t think he was any more of a hero because he was gay but there is no question he was both.
I called out Johanna on this because the statement came out as such a non sequitur.
How is his sexual orientation at all important or relevant to his heroic actions?
Try this out:
- Mark Bingham, black hero of Flight 93.
No he wasn’t, but how unimportant is that information too?
I figured it just meant he had bought the endorsement rights. “Mark Bingham, gay hero of Flight 93” - like “Snickers, official candy bar of the 2008 Olympics”.
More to the point, I’m gay.
Not seeing the outrage here.
Just a preemptive note here to remind everyone this is MPSIMS.
Not the place to start a pile on, so let’s instead keep the discussion focused on the reasonings and opinions on whether a person’s sexual preference has to do with why they’re recognized.
And apparently one of those people that thinks that just because something is important to you, it is important to everyone else.
It’s important simpliciter.
It is not socially acceptable to publically conceptualize black people as cowards or wimps or unworthy human beings.
It is socially acceptable, in many fully public contexts, do conceptualize gay people this way.
Since this is a case where something socially acceptable is morally wrong, it is important to fight against the phenomenon. And one way to fight against the phenomenon is to highlight counterexamples to the conceptualization.
I’m not understanding the confusion over this myself.
The category (in the game thread) was “In honor of the date: People associated with 9/11”.
Seems to me, Johanna (being gay), was–in essence–basically adding to the list someone she looks up to as well with having a specific kinship with. The fact that she pointed out he was gay was (how I read it) just a way of showing admiration for a fellow member of the LGBT community.
Indeed. Just as it’s appropriate to mention the generous Jew in tipping threads and the intelligent black in Mensa threads. Or maybe, not every place and time is appropriate as a battle ground for your pet cause.
What does this mean?
It’s unfortunate that it is important, but it is. Too many people want to view those of us that are gay as useless at best and destroying the fabric of society at the worst. Those of that have been treated as such and the people that think that way need to be reminded of such people.
Perhaps the aim is that every community wants heroes?
It’s not exactly relevant that he was gay, but looking at it another way…
As he was my countryman, I take pride in the fact that the first man to climb Everest was Kiwi, or that Mike Moore was on the national stage, etc etc -
To provide “heros” can help people to come to terms with themselves?
Thanks. This is what I was trying to say in my post 12, but you said it much better.
If you mention Mark Bingham to people as a hero of Flight 93 and they say “which one was he?”, you’re probably not going to say “The PR exec” or “the San Francisco rugby player”. You’re going to say “The gay guy”, the same as Todd Beamer was the “let’s roll” guy. Perhaps you’d add “played by gay actor Cheyenne Jackson in the movie”. Or "the man who John McCain eulogized and gave a flag to his boyfriend at a memorial service before later becoming a Kool Aid drooling line tower on gay issues.
And as a gay guy I have no problem with him being identified by his sexual orientation. CLEARLY no offense was meant against anybody gay or straight and this is hardly worth another thread even if this isn’t the pit.
Not sure how you can think this is an effective response to my post, as I said something there already about why mentioning blackness (or by extension, jewishness) is not important.
“Without qualification or condition.”
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