Help Me Buy A Pistol!

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

All-

I bow to your collective gun knowledge. I am seriously considering purchasing a pistol. I have never owned a handgun and I have only fired one twice (an HK 9mm, I believe). I was in the military, and have fired on many occasions M-16 A1 and A2's, an M-60 machine gun, etc. I have also fired shotguns several times. So in other words I am not a complete idiot when it comes to handling/cleaning/firing weapons.

But I have very little experience with handguns. I considered purchasing a shotgun, like a Mossberg 500 (as I like those), but...I don't know. I may want to get a conceal/carry at some point and you can't really conceal a rifle or a shotgun!

What do I need to look for in a pistol? I know heft is important, as well as recoil...what caliber of round to consider? I think a revolver is out...I would like to be able to have more bullets than 6 on hand. I also think I might buy a used handgun as I don't want to spend a fortune on one. Anyone ever done this? What do I look out for in terms of potential issues with a used weapon?

I am open to any ideas and suggestions you gun owners might have to share. I was thinking about looking at some today. Oh, one other thing...I live in SE Indiana very near Cincinnati and am looking at browsing some shops in Ohio...any potential snags for me buying a gun in one state while being a resident of an adjacent one?

Thanks in advance, you're the best

Love,

FGIE

[Oakminster]

What are you going to do with the gun? For plinking at cans or targets, you can't beat a .22 for cost, recoil, and noise.

For self defense, you'll probably want something heavier. My preference is a double action .357 revolver. If you can't settle it with 6, you're probably going to die anyway.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Oh, one other thing...I live in SE Indiana very near Cincinnati and am looking at browsing some shops in Ohio...any potential snags for me buying a gun in one state while being a resident of an adjacent one?

Yes, there is a minor snag. A strict prohibition. You may only purchase handguns in your state of residence.

So, if you found the gun of your dreams in OH, you would have to arrange to have it shipped to an Indiana dealer and have him transfer it to you. Extra money and a real pain in the ass.

I second a .22 for a first handgun. The ammunition is cheap and the recoil is low. It's not much for self-defense, but anything else you would need to take out a personal loan to fire enough rounds to become proficient.

I carry a 9mm. Yeah, yeah everyone says it is a weak round, but with 16 shots I should be able to stop someone.

[Bumbazine]

Millions of words have been written on hundreds of websites about which gun to buy. What it boils down to is: you gotta decide for yourself.
Just don't take anything anybody says as gospel.

I have to agree with Oakminster, a .22 is a very good place to start. You're going to want one eventually anyway, so why not start there. Ruger, Browning, and Smith & Wesson models are the most highly regarded brands, at least on the innerwebz.

I have owned and operated handguns for over 40 years, and I'm still learning, but I do know, or think I know, a few things:

Whatever you get, you need to practice with it, and keep practicing. Once or twice a year is not enough. I shoot at least once a month. I also always take at least one .22 to the range with me, to keep my ammo costs within reason.

9mm is the cheapest center-fire ammo available at you local store. It is also more than adequate for self-defense, regardless what some people may say.

Bigger, heavier pistols are easier to shoot accurately, but harder to conceal. Smaller, lighter pistols are harder to shoot accurately, but easier to conceal. You have to decide what size pistol and what type of carry works for you. I personally have a commander-size 1911 (RIA .45), a compact 9mm auto (SR9C) and a pocket sized .380 (S&W Bodyguard) that I consider my carry guns.

I would advise you to find a place to shoot that rents a wide variety of pistols for you to try.
Get a .22 that you like and shoot it a lot to see if you want to put in the time, and money, to gain and maintain proficiency.
If you decide you want to carry a concealed weapon, come back and ask our advice then.
Take everything you read on the innerwebz with a giant grain of salt.

About buying a pistol out-of-state; you can do that, but the seller will have to transfer the weapon to an FFL dealer in your home state and you will have to pick it up there, and you will have to pay a transfer fee for the 'privilege'. It will almost certainly be cheaper to buy in your home state.

[twickster]

Since you're looking for advice, I'll move this from MPSIMS to IMHO, our advice forum.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Thanks guys. I dropped by a local gun shop a bit ago and looked at several pistols (and a matte black Mossberg 500 that I really liked). The pistol that left the biggest impression on me was a Stoerger "Cougar" 8000 .45 ACP gun. I really like the heft of the gun...the owner of the shop was telling me how heavy the .45's were and it didn't seem heavy to me (of course it was unloaded too). I liked the simplicity of the breakdown for cleaning and the "three-pronged" sight on it, as well as the attachment rails underneath the barrel for a light/laser.

Its being sold as used but the owner said it had never been fired...he told me it was a return from a guy who bought it for his wife but it was too big for her (or her purse??) and that he had to sell it as used due to it being purchased once before.

Price was $400, which includes the original box, manual, extra cartridge and trigger lock. The guy is also throwing in a gun cleaning kit for free if I also buy a box of ammo for him (FMJ rounds, box of 50, $18.95).

Anyone have any experience with this weapon or one similar to it?

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/fir...ger-cougar.php

[Argent Towers]

This is getting ridiculous. Like 5 people have started threads about buying guns in the past week! WTF is going on?!

[Oakminster]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Anyone have any experience with this weapon or one similar to it?

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/fir...ger-cougar.php

I haven't fired that model, but I suspect it will have significant recoil. Short, light pistol in .45, you better have good hand/wrist strength if you want to hit anything with it. Really think you should try to test fire a few models before you buy anything.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

I have an even better deal.

Free to a loyal Bengals fan. I'll even cover the postage.

OK, seriously, it sounds like you're getting a good deal on the Stoeger, which gets good reviews though it is apparently rather heavy. It gets even heavier when you load it, .45 ACP is significantly heavier than 9mm, but you're getting a common caliber with lots of load options (unlike my 357SIG, which is very expensive to feed). The weight has a benefit, though: it reduces perceived recoil, albeit at the expense of size and concealability. This is not a CCW firearm, if that is one of your interests.

As far as the shotgun goes, you can't go wrong with either a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 as those are the industry standards.

[Johnny L.A.]

I prefer shooting rifles, myself; but I do have a number of handguns.

Ruger Mk.II pistol, .22 caliber. Very nice. Points well. Classic. The downside is that it has a 'target chamber' and it can be finicky about the brand of ammo. (I talked to a tech at Ruger, who told me this.)

Walther P22, .22 caliber. Fun little 'toy'. Looks great, functions with all ammo I've used in it. Not as accurate as the Ruger. 'Feels' like a toy.

Beretta 92FS, 9mm, made in Italy. This one fits my hand perfectly. Some people find it a bit chunky. Accurate, and 15 rounds.

Colt 1911, .45 caliber. I have a 1991A1 (made in 1991, obviously), and a civilian serial-numbered Government model from either the teens or twenties (I don't remember which). Classic design. Slim for concealed carry, but only 7 rounds. Thumb safety can only be applied when the hammer is back. This shouldn't be a problem, but it's not as fool-proof as a safety that can be engaged with the hammer down and that rotates the firing pin out of the way.

I have several other handguns, and each has its appeal. Since the OP has already made his choice, this post is superfluous. But there you have it. 'You pays our money and takes your pick.'

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Argent Towers

This is getting ridiculous. Like 5 people have started threads about buying guns in the past week! WTF is going on?!

We're arming ourselves for the end of the world on December 21st, duh.

Originally Posted by Oakminster

I haven't fired that model, but I suspect it will have significant recoil. Short, light pistol in .45, you better have good hand/wrist strength if you want to hit anything with it. Really think you should try to test fire a few models before you buy anything.

Actually I was told by the shop owner that because its a heavier gun that recoil is pretty low. Or, see Airman's post.

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

I have an even better deal.

Free to a loyal Bengals fan. I'll even cover the postage.

OK, seriously, it sounds like you're getting a good deal on the Stoeger, which gets good reviews though it is apparently rather heavy. It gets even heavier when you load it, .45 ACP is significantly heavier than 9mm, but you're getting a common caliber with lots of load options (unlike my 357SIG, which is very expensive to feed). The weight has a benefit, though: it reduces perceived recoil, albeit at the expense of size and concealability. This is not a CCW firearm, if that is one of your interests.

As far as the shotgun goes, you can't go wrong with either a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 as those are the industry standards.

LOL on the Bengals suicide gun. I'll let you have it back when we sign Mike Wallace away from your team. And as far as CCW goes, it isn't THAT big of a gun...why couldn't it be concealed?

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

I prefer shooting rifles, myself; but I do have a number of handguns.

Ruger Mk.II pistol, .22 caliber. Very nice. Points well. Classic. The downside is that it has a 'target chamber' and it can be finicky about the brand of ammo. (I talked to a tech at Ruger, who told me this.)

Walther P22, .22 caliber. Fun little 'toy'. Looks great, functions with all ammo I've used in it. Not as accurate as the Ruger. 'Feels' like a toy.

Beretta 92FS, 9mm, made in Italy. This one fits my hand perfectly. Some people find it a bit chunky. Accurate, and 15 rounds.

Colt 1911, .45 caliber. I have a 1991A1 (made in 1991, obviously), and a civilian serial-numbered Government model from either the teens or twenties (I don't remember which). Classic design. Slim for concealed carry, but only 7 rounds. Thumb safety can only be applied when the hammer is back. This shouldn't be a problem, but it's not as fool-proof as a safety that can be engaged with the hammer down and that rotates the firing pin out of the way.

I have several other handguns, and each has its appeal. Since the OP has already made his choice, this post is superfluous. But there you have it. 'You pays our money and takes your pick.'

Nice arsenal. I haven't totally made up my mind yet which is why I am asking questions. I do like the Stoeger though.


ETA: And Airman, your link to the Stoeger reviews is giving me a database error. If you can put up a working link I'd love to read those reviews.

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Nice arsenal.

It's not an 'arsenal'. It's a collection!

Off the top of my head, I also have a Walther P.1 (post-war P.38), a stainless steel Walther PPK/S, Ruger Blackhawk (.45LC, 7-1/2" barrel), Ruger Single-Six, H&R 999 nine-shot .22 breaktop revolver, S&W M&P .38, S&W Hand Ejectors in .455 Webley/Eley (both 1916 or so, one converted to .45 with moon clips), Mauser C96 'red nine' 9mm, a Webley Mk. VI in .455, and several 'charcoal burners'.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

LOL on the Bengals suicide gun. I'll let you have it back when we sign Mike Wallace away from your team. And as far as CCW goes, it isn't THAT big of a gun...why couldn't it be concealed?

I'll believe that when I see it. Wallace will still be with Pittsburgh next year. It looks like the Bengals can take a run at Ward, though. Makes you really want to fire that gun, doesn't it?

As for why the Stoeger can't be concealed, it certainly can, but it's not ideal. Weight is the enemy of concealed carry because the idea is to put it on and forget it's there. Something heavy will cause constant distraction, and constantly hitching up your belt or adjusting your weapon for comfort gives you away. Ankle carry is even worse, and inside the waistband is notably less comfortable, which leaves you with a paddle holster, something that you have to keep covered at all times lest you expose your weapon. My suggestion, as always, is to get a compact/sub-compact, preferably with a polymer frame, though I have a Kimber Tactical Ultra II (1911-pattern sub-compact) that works well in steel and aluminum and an all-steel SigSauer P239. A lot can be overcome with a good belt and holster, though if you start small it always works out better. CCW is above all a compromise.

ETA: And Airman, your link to the Stoeger reviews is giving me a database error. If you can put up a working link I'd love to read those reviews.

It works for me on two computers. I wonder why it doesn't work for you.

[Johnny L.A.]

I thought I'd check, and I get: 'Error establishing a database connection'.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

I thought I'd check, and I get: 'Error establishing a database connection'.

That's what I am getting too.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

I'll believe that when I see it. Wallace will still be with Pittsburgh next year. It looks like the Bengals can take a run at Ward, though. Makes you really want to fire that gun, doesn't it?

As for why the Stoeger can't be concealed, it certainly can, but it's not ideal. Weight is the enemy of concealed carry because the idea is to put it on and forget it's there. Something heavy will cause constant distraction, and constantly hitching up your belt or adjusting your weapon for comfort gives you away. Ankle carry is even worse, and inside the waistband is notably less comfortable, which leaves you with a paddle holster, something that you have to keep covered at all times lest you expose your weapon. My suggestion, as always, is to get a compact/sub-compact, preferably with a polymer frame, though I have a Kimber Tactical Ultra II (1911-pattern sub-compact) that works well in steel and aluminum and an all-steel SigSauer P239. A lot can be overcome with a good belt and holster, though if you start small it always works out better. CCW is above all a compromise.



It works for me on two computers. I wonder why it doesn't work for you.

Hines Ward!





No fucking way!

Anyway, thanks for the tip. If I become an ardent shooter with whatever pistol I may buy, then maybe I will get something smaller or bigger depending on if I catch the fever or not. There's also the matter of getting past the Brady Act background check. I've seen that form and I have a misdemeanor battery charge on it from 2004 when I slapped my then wife after she kicked me in the balls and tried to scratch my eyes out...and I got arrested for it even though she was batshit crazy drunk and I was the one with the claw marks on my face. Go figure. Anyway, there's a question on there that asks if you've ever been convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, and...I suppose I have, as shitty of a person as that makes me sound.

So that might nick me there...no idea. From reading online it looks like there are a lot of people that get rejected for something relatively minor in their past. I have never been convicted of a felony, have an honorable discharge from the Army...and that one black mark on my record. Anyone know anyone that got shafted from legally buying a gun from that FBI background check?

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Unfortunately, you cannot purchase or possess a firearm due to the Lautenberg Amendment. The best that you can hope for is that you can appeal to have your rights restored or have the court vacate the charge. Until then, you're SOL.

[aceplace57]

BMalion should soon be armed and dangerous very soon from info in his thread. Most info here would apply to anyone wanting a gun. One of my posts explains how to purchase from an online dealer and get it delivered to a local FFL dealer.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=642298

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

Unfortunately, you cannot purchase or possess a firearm due to the Lautenberg Amendment. The best that you can hope for is that you can appeal to have your rights restored or have the court vacate the charge. Until then, you're SOL.

What a bunch of BS.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

I've been thinking about what Airman said, and I totally understand what the law is trying to accomplish, but...I don't know. I feel like if I get rejected from purchasing a firearm because of that incident 8 years ago that I feel I wasn't even at fault for that I am being robbed of a right to purchase a legal item in my home country.

Damn. I guess we will see. Sorry if this derails the thread. I am still hopeful for advice. I would of course answer the questions on the form honestly, so...I don't know what will happen until it happens.

Shit.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

I've been thinking about what Airman said, and I totally understand what the law is trying to accomplish, but...I don't know. I feel like if I get rejected from purchasing a firearm because of that incident 8 years ago that I feel I wasn't even at fault for that I am being robbed of a right to purchase a legal item in my home country.

Damn. I guess we will see. Sorry if this derails the thread. I am still hopeful for advice. I would of course answer the questions on the form honestly, so...I don't know what will happen until it happens.

Shit.

It's a raw deal if you ask me. For the purposes of this law you are treated like a felon. If you were still in the military it would have cost you your career. Worse, it's an ex post facto law so for people who have ever been convicted of an act of domestic violence it applies to them as well. The stories are myriad of people who get int a fight, have their spouse call the police, sober up the next day and try to withdraw the complaint, only to find that the DA pursues DV cases with vigor and it cannot be withdrawn. The Lautenberg Amendment has real teeth, and in so many cases the punishment does not fit the crime.

One other thing: if you do not answer the questions on the BATFE Form 4473 honestly you will be a felon, and they won't have to prove a thing except that the signature on the form is yours. I suggest you see an attorney about it before you try to purchase one. You may be able to get the record expunged or the conviction vacated. If it's been years and you have no other incidents it may work out. It also depends upon how hard-ass the DA is.

Good luck to you. I mean that.

EDIT: If this happened in Kentucky, give this a look. It may be easier than you think.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Wouldn't do any good to not answer honestly anyway, since the records check WILL find anything there is to find in your history, however remote.

When I applied for my license, the initial check by the local police turned up an FID issued to me way back in the early 1980s that I had not listed on the application because I'd never used it and had totally forgotten about it.

I started out this fall with a Ruger Mark III 22/45, a nice starter gun but a bitch to break down for cleaning. After lucking into a Colt Woodsman Match Target First Series (made in 1938) I wound up trading in the Ruger on a CZ Lux rifle, a real honey of a tack driver. I'll probably never move up from .22 caliber since I haven't enjoyed shooting any of the heavier-caliber guns I've been offered a try of, but even if you want a bigger bang for your buck, Oakminster and Bumbazine are right about that being good to have.

Damn shame about the blot on your record; hopefully you can find a way to resolve the issue.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Well...shit. I am wondering if I should even bother trying now. Perhaps since I have nothing to lose I should inquire about buying an AR-15 instead, ask how to convert it to full auto, mention that I feel the need to kill everyone in sight and that I own hand grenades and see what happens...

I will probably get approved (IT'S NOT A HANDGUN!)

[aceplace57]

Guns can still be bought from private individuals in many places. I see them in my newspapers classifieds all the time. They're usually older guns that someone inherited and doesn't want.

Depending on your location a permit may or may not be required to have a gun at home. The rules vary tremendously depending on where you live. I know in my state Felons can't own guns or even go hunting.

[Dallas Jones]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

Unfortunately, you cannot purchase or possess a firearm due to the Lautenberg Amendment. The best that you can hope for is that you can appeal to have your rights restored or have the court vacate the charge. Until then, you're SOL.

He will not know the real answer until FoieGrasIsEvil goes to a gun store and has his info ran through the NICS background check.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

It costs something, so the store may charge you, a small fee. Then you will know.

No one will be sent out to arrest you for having the NICS check ran. If you are denied you have not purchased a gun and no crime has been committed.

You may think that there is something in your background that will disqualify your purchase, but you will not know until you do the NICS check.

[MsRobyn]

Originally Posted by Dallas Jones

He will not know the real answer until FoieGrasIsEvil goes to a gun store and has his info ran through the NICS background check.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

It costs something, so the store may charge you, a small fee. Then you will know.

No one will be sent out to arrest you for having the NICS check ran. If you are denied you have not purchased a gun and no crime has been committed.

You may think that there is something in your background that will disqualify your purchase, but you will not know until you do the NICS check.

This is true enough, but there is one caveat. If the OP is turned down on the basis of the NICS record, that will create a red flag in that record. Even if his right to possess a firearm is restored, that red flag will pop up and probably create more problems.

Don't do it until you know for sure what your status is WRT your previous problems. If it's this important to you, talk to a lawyer who can tell you what you can do about it.

[Ike Witt]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

It's not an 'arsenal'. It's a collection!

Unless you get arrested for something, then it becomes an arsenal.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by Ike Witt

Unless you get arrested for something, then it becomes an arsenal.

And if it hits the media, then it's a "secret bunker."

[Crafter_Man]

When it comes to semi-automatic handguns, I like the idea of being able to fix them myself. Many gun manufacturers make it nearly impossible for you to fix a gun yourself because they (purposely) do not sell spare parts such as springs and screws. You are forced to send your gun back to the manufacturer, which is a real pain in the ass. One example is Springfield.

There are only three semi-automatic handguns you can buy wherein you can purchase any spare part:

- Glock
- Smith & Wesson M&P
- 1911

So I am biased toward these three, obviously.

You can't go wrong with a Glock. Fantastic gun.

The S&W M&Ps are similar to a Glocks, with one advantage and one disadvantage. On a S&W M&P, the distance between the sight axis and the barrel axis is smaller, which (IMO) makes it a better shooting gun vs. the Glock. However, the finish on a S&W M&P is inferior to the finish on a Glock. The finish on a Glock is ultra-durable.

My CCW is a S&W M&P 9 mm compact. I love it.

[Crafter_Man]

More advice:

Resist the urge to get a handgun in a penis-enhancing caliber such as .45 ACP. Unless you're independently wealthy, you won't practice with it because it will be too damn expensive too shoot.

Regardless of what caliber you decide to buy (9 mm, .380, etc.), you also need a .22 handgun. Look at the Walther P22.

Buy at least a half-a-dozen magazines for each handgun you own.

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

there's a question on there that asks if you've ever been convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, and...I suppose I have

Crap, just saw this. Sorry to hear that, FGIE. That damn Lautenberg Amendment needs to rescinded.

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Crafter_Man

Regardless of what caliber you decide to buy (9 mm, .380, etc.), you also need a .22 handgun. Look at the Walther P22.

Buy at least a half-a-dozen magazines for each handgun you own.

As I said, I have a P22 (in OD). It's fun, but not my first choice. It's too light for me, with its polymer frame. It feels like a toy in my hand. It's not as accurate as my Ruger Mk.II. The Ruger is the right weight, and it points better and is more accurate than the Walther. (Incidentally, I like 'common' guns; so my Ruger is the basic model with the 4" barrel and fixed sights.) The only problem with the Ruger is that it (mine) does not like Remington ammo, which it often fails to eject. As I said, a tech at Ruger told me that the pistol's chamber is tighter than most .22s. It's also a pain to put back together after you've taken it apart. The Walther digests any ammo, and it's easy to strip. But I prefer the Ruger.

I do have an unknown number of magazines for my Beretta. At least six, I think. But I in actual shooting, I've never needed more than two. Fewer magazines means you have to take the time to load them more often, thus making it a little cheaper to shoot.

[Crafter_Man]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

As I said, I have a P22 (in OD). It's fun, but not my first choice. It's too light for me, with its polymer frame. It feels like a toy in my hand. It's not as accurate as my Ruger Mk.II. The Ruger is the right weight, and it points better and is more accurate than the Walther. (Incidentally, I like 'common' guns; so my Ruger is the basic model with the 4" barrel and fixed sights.) The only problem with the Ruger is that it (mine) does not like Remington ammo, which it often fails to eject. As I said, a tech at Ruger told me that the pistol's chamber is tighter than most .22s. It's also a pain to put back together after you've taken it apart. The Walther digests any ammo, and it's easy to strip. But I prefer the Ruger.

I like the Walther P22 because it's so small and light. But I agree... it's not an "ultra-reliable, top-quality" gun. Some call it a piece of junk. I certainly wouldn't trust my life with it. But it's still fun to shoot.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by Crafter_Man

Regardless of what caliber you decide to buy (9 mm, .380, etc.), you also need a .22 handgun. Look at the Walther P22.

I don't know jack about guns, but I'm following all the gun threads closely since I've always wanted to go target shooting at a range with a handgun* and maybe buy one for myself someday.** Just the other day I was looking at the website for a local shop and they are advertising a Walther P22 they got in with a serial number of 0070BAD.

I wasn't aware that you could rent guns at the shops, I'm glad to see how easy it is to do that. It seems that most shops just allow you to pay an extra few dollars and you have access to all the guns they have to rent, you just have to buy the ammo (do they sell them in lots less then a case?). I really don't have any intention of keeping a gun anywhere on the first floor of my house so my concern was that after buying it and using it a few times it would just sit, locked up, in my basement and rust...out of sight, out of mind.

*My dad got a 9mm when I was 14 and told me he would take me shooting when I turned 16...I'm 31 and still haven't shot that 9mm. Though he has offered to take me hunting and sport (clay) shooting plenty of times, but shotguns and running around in the forest at 5am haven't really struck my fancy.

**I'm actually taking a CCW class next weekend and then sending in my application for CCW permit. Not that that I have any intention to CC and I was planning to do it even before I had the slightest inclination of getting a gun. It was more of a 'just in case' thing. For a few bucks I'm covered should I ever find my self in possession of a gun...for a few bucks I'm covered should I ever find myself in trouble with the law (not that I'm ever in trouble with the law) and they find a knife or box cutter on me and make a big deal out of it. OTOH, sometimes I wonder if I walk out of work with a box cutter on me that a CCW license might make a cop think it's a weapon when they might otherwise have not thought anything of it.

[Scumpup]

Walther p22 is made from zamak. I don't do zinc guns. Durability just isn't there. Neither is longevity. I've seen, and owned through inheritance, zamak guns that got crumbly just sitting in a drawer. If Walther made the same gun using aluminum and/or steel, I'd be interested.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Crafter_Man

More advice:

Resist the urge to get a handgun in a penis-enhancing caliber such as .45 ACP.

That's not any big help. We rightfully get pissed off when gun-control people say it, yet here it is in all its glory. Thanks very much.

.45 ACP is expensive, but it's not such a premium that someone shopping one should be overly concerned about it. It's also a very common caliber, favored by a large contingent of shooters. God, you'd think we were talking about a Desert Eagle or something.

[Scumpup]

No center fire pistol of any caliber need be attempted until the .22 is mastered. If you can't put the bullets where you want them from the .22, moving up to something more powerful and expensive will not magically make you competent. Quite the contrary, as the .22 is easy to control and is fired from some very accurate pistols. What happens, though, is that huge groups fired from a Ruger or Browning .22 rub the shooter's nose in his lack of skill. Huge groups fired from a larger caliber can easily be rationalized as "combat accuracy.".
Even after competency is attained, the majority of practice should still be with the .22 pistol. If you can use one ergonomically similar to your center fire piece, so much the better. Dry fire and air guns are also useful for developing and maintaining skill.
I own guns in everything from .17hmr up through .45-70 and 7.62x54R. None of them influence the size of my genitals. Seeing a pro-gun poster bring up that particular idiocy was a disappointment.

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

I own guns in... .45-70...

Wanna buy an un-fired Shiloh Sharps to go with it?


A question about recoil: How big is 'too big'? A former cowerker and I took a lunch break one day at an indoor range. I had my Ruger Blackhawk .45LC, and he had a .38 Special. He complained my Ruger had too much recoil. I thought it was fine.

[Scumpup]

Recoil is at least somewhat subjective, though how well a gun is fitted to the shooter does play a role. Muzzle blast also seems to be part of the perceived recoil.
My most unpleasant gun is a 70's vintage TC Contender in .30-30. The grips were designed by Steve Herret, who absolutely should have known better. It's really loud. The grips don't fit anybody's hand. There is a lot of muzzle flip. I've taken deer with it in the past, but haven't even fired it in years. Range time is too precious to waste on it.

[ExTank]

Originally Posted by Crafter_Man

More advice:

Resist the urge to get a handgun in a penis-enhancing caliber such as .45 ACP. Unless you're independently wealthy, you won't practice with it because it will be too damn expensive too shoot.

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

That's not any big help. We rightfully get pissed off when gun-control people say it, yet here it is in all its glory. Thanks very much.

.45 ACP is expensive, but it's not such a premium that someone shopping one should be overly concerned about it. It's also a very common caliber, favored by a large contingent of shooters. God, you'd think we were talking about a Desert Eagle or something.

And a great big old +1.

Dude, the U.S. Army gave me a 1911A1 to hump around for 6 years. It's the handgun I have the most familiarity with, both mechanically as well as trigger-time.

And the ammo cost isn't any worse than 9mm or .357. I get plenty of practice with my 1911, along with lots of other people at various ranges shooting XDs and other non-1911 .45ACP.

There is a reason that round caliber has hung around for over a century, and keeps coming back in spite of multiple attempts at modernization.

[Crafter_Man]

Oh dear, what have I done?

45 ACP is an awesome round. I was simply opining that a new shooter probably shouldn't start with it. I have seen it happen a couple times... new shooter goes out to buy his first handgun, wants a "big" caliber because it's big, gets a .45, and ends up never shooting it.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

I've seen that form and I have a misdemeanor battery charge on it from 2004 when I slapped my then wife after she kicked me in the balls and tried to scratch my eyes out...and I got arrested for it even though she was batshit crazy drunk and I was the one with the claw marks on my face. Go figure. Anyway, there's a question on there that asks if you've ever been convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, and...I suppose I have, as shitty of a person as that makes me sound.

Not to talk down to you, but arrest does not equal conviction. You should have beaten the rap at trial if things were as you say. I would check to be sure. Most states have a first time deferral program where you go to anger management or some such nonsense and in exchange the charges are dropped.

If that is what happened, then you were not convicted.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by jtgain

Not to talk down to you, but arrest does not equal conviction. You should have beaten the rap at trial if things were as you say. I would check to be sure. Most states have a first time deferral program where you go to anger management or some such nonsense and in exchange the charges are dropped.

If that is what happened, then you were not convicted.

No, I was convicted. I admitted to the police that I slapped her, because I had. I told them the truth, and they arrested me and not her, possibly due to the kids being asleep in what at the time was technically her place when this occurred. I was given a suspended sentence, probation, a small fine and anger management classes. SO that is on my record as a conviction for domestic violence, I'm afraid.

Anyway, I went to the gun shop today and explained my situation and I decided to go on ahead and fill out the paperwork and they are running it through. I need to know if I am even going to be able to purchase a gun. And if I get denied, if there's anything I can do about it.

[BMalion]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

BMalion should soon be armed and dangerous very soon from info in his thread. Most info here would apply to anyone wanting a gun. One of my posts explains how to purchase from an online dealer and get it delivered to a local FFL dealer.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=642298

This week if it all works out, that tax return is burning a hole in my pocket!

[Count Blucher]

Originally Posted by Crafter_Man

Oh dear, what have I done?

45 ACP is an awesome round. I was simply opining that a new shooter probably shouldn't start with it. I have seen it happen a couple times... new shooter goes out to buy his first handgun, wants a "big" caliber because it's big, gets a .45, and ends up never shooting it.

Well, there goes my idea. The OP had said they've fired & loved firing a Mossberg. I was going to say "Shorty, you're my my angel, you're my darling angel. Closer than my peeps you are to me, baby..."

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

No, I was convicted. I admitted to the police that I slapped her, because I had. I told them the truth, and they arrested me and not her, possibly due to the kids being asleep in what at the time was technically her place when this occurred. I was given a suspended sentence, probation, a small fine and anger management classes. SO that is on my record as a conviction for domestic violence, I'm afraid.

Anyway, I went to the gun shop today and explained my situation and I decided to go on ahead and fill out the paperwork and they are running it through. I need to know if I am even going to be able to purchase a gun. And if I get denied, if there's anything I can do about it.

Sorry to hear that. You might want to look into your state's procedures for expungement, restoration of civil rights, or clemency/pardon. That was always a ridiculous law and it needs to be done away with.

Be sure not to lie on the Form 4473 where it asks have you been convicted of DV. It's a federal felony to lie on the form (but I doubt they will send agents after you).

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by jtgain

Sorry to hear that. You might want to look into your state's procedures for expungement, restoration of civil rights, or clemency/pardon. That was always a ridiculous law and it needs to be done away with.

Be sure not to lie on the Form 4473 where it asks have you been convicted of DV. It's a federal felony to lie on the form (but I doubt they will send agents after you).

Thanks. I didn't lie on the form. It was the only box I checked "yes" on. I pled guilty to misdemeanor battery...there's no mention of domestic violence in the charges, but...either way, since I checked "yes", I think I am screwed. Either way, at least it will be an interesting experiment to see if I slip through the cracks, so to speak, or not.

[Nars Glinley]

Sorry FoieGrasIsEvil, but you're almost certainly screwed since the form itself says:

I understand that a person who answers "yes" to any of the questions 11.b. through 11.k. is prohibited from purchasing or receiving a firearm.

and the domestic violence question is 11.i. It doesn't matter what the results of the background check are. You can't answer yes to any of the b through k questions.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Patrick Star: "We're waiting...we're waiting..."

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Nars Glinley

Sorry FoieGrasIsEvil, but you're almost certainly screwed since the form itself says: and the domestic violence question is 11.i. It doesn't matter what the results of the background check are. You can't answer yes to any of the b through k questions.

Well...I cleared the background check. The Feds never called back and the gun shop said that by Friday (today) if I hadn't heard anything from the dealer that I could come in and purchase a gun. I got the .45 I was eyeballing, two boxes of FMJ Federal ammo, a cleaning kit and a trigger lock. Now I need to find a place where I can safely shoot the thing.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Well...I cleared the background check. The Feds never called back and the gun shop said that by Friday (today) if I hadn't heard anything from the dealer that I could come in and purchase a gun. I got the .45 I was eyeballing, two boxes of FMJ Federal ammo, a cleaning kit and a trigger lock. Now I need to find a place where I can safely shoot the thing.

What, you mean straight up in the air isn't an option...c'mon celebrate a little.