Is porn degrading the woman's image?

[DukemNukem]

I've seen a few documentaries that are for the idea that its degrading but now I would like us to throw arguments back and forth until we come to a conclusion.

However this might be a difficult topic since there is a wide variety of genres and I don't know if it would be appropriate to sweep them into one. I'll leave that for everyone to decide.

[kenetic]

I think porn can be degrading for its participants of any gender, and there are plenty of examples of this on the interwebs.

But it doesn't have to be, and the "all porn (or other forms of sex work) degrades women and/or necessarily constitutes violence against women" is just reductive rationalization used by people who don't like sex work.

[ITR champion]

Originally Posted by DukemNukem

I've seen a few documentaries that are for the idea that its degrading but now I would like us to throw arguments back and forth until we come to a conclusion.

A culture inflicts harm on the psyche of many when it sends women and girls the message that they matter only inasmuch as they are beautiful and sexually appealing to men, and not because of their intellect, spirituality, artistry, talent, or anything else. Some women of the SDMB spoke out about it in this thread, and someone linked to this opinion piece.

Obviously this message comes in many forms; just look at the magazine covers in any supermarket. But almost by definition, pornography carries the message more strongly by anything else. In pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason.

[The Universe Lashes Out]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

In pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason.

Depends on what kind of porn you are watching.

[kenetic]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

In pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason.

The existence of porn made by women, for women makes blanket statements like this suspect.

[Evil Captor]

All sexual thoughts about women are inherently degrading to women, therefore porn is degrading by definition. How can you think of a woman, a creature like yourself, your very equal, a robot made by god for the purpose of denying our animal natures and worshiping the divine, as a sex object? How can you possibly think of the intense, throbbing, pounding, thrusting pleasure of animal intercourse, imagining over and over the thought of sticking your wee-wee in her pee-pee? What is the matter with you?

[Blake]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

A culture inflicts harm on the psyche of many when it sends women and girls the message that they matter only inasmuch as they are beautiful and sexually appealing to men, and not because of their intellect, spirituality, artistry, talent, or anything else.

What does this have to do with porn? Does any porn actually send such a message?

Literally none of the porn that I have seen/read has ever sent a message even remotely like what you describe. Porn is, by definition, about sex, but that does not mean that the only worth of the people involved is sex.

This is as bizarre as saying that romantic comedies send a message to men that they they matter only inasmuch as they are providers and emotionally appealing to women, and not because of their intellect, spirituality, artistry, talent, or anything else. Or saying that action movies and thrillers send a message to men that they matter only inasmuch as they are strong, emotionally resilient and able to function under incredible duress, and not because of their intellect, spirituality, artistry, talent, or anything else.

It's all a total nonsense. Movies in certain genres focus on certain aspects of the characters and invokes certain stereotypes and tropes. Horror movies don't focus on the hero or heroine's artistic abilities any more than porn does, because it's totally irrelevant to the purpose of the movie. A man's political or spiritual views in a romantic comedy are also rarely mentioned unless they somehow offend the female lead. None of this is evidence that those stories are sending a message about what men are valuable for. All it means is that movies have a set plot, and characterisation that is utterly irrelevant to those plots is inevitably ignored.

Unless intellect, spirituality, artistry or talent are somehow relevant to the act of physical sex, of course they aren't mentioned, That isn't at all the same as saying that those traits are valueless.

Shit, I bet you can't tell me anything at all about Jame's Bond's spirituality, artistry, politics or talent. Or Peter Parker's. Or Jack Sparrrow's. So clearly that means that thrillers send a message that men are not valued for such things.

Obviously this message comes in many forms; just look at the magazine covers in any supermarket.

I don't know what supermarkets you frequent, but the ones on my area don't display porno mags. They display "fashion" and "family" and "gossip" mags. And the covers are mostly of celebrities and the blurbs focus on the spirituality, artistry, talent of those celebrities.

I put "US Weekly cover" into Google images.

The first hit is this. A picture of a female celebrity and crap about her wedding focussing on her relationships, fashion choices and musical tastes. Pictures of Bill Clinton and Michelle Obama talking about the polictis of their spouses.

The next hit is this. Proudly declaring that it contains nothing about Paris Hilton is a good thing, but the picture is all babies and the blurb is just fluff about celebrity babies and fashion. Not even a hint of anything about female sexuality, unless you want to draw the long bow that babies = sex.

The third hit is this. A picture of a male celebrity. Blurb about meaningles trivia such as his dating life, which could be construed as sex, but this is hardly supporting your point that these magazines give an image that women are valued only for sex.

These are not cherry picked examples. These are simply the first three that Google turns up. So at this stage I am calling bullshit in this claim that supermarket magazines somehow send a message that women are valued only for sex. It appears that they don't do any such thing.

But almost by definition, pornography carries the message more strongly by anything else.

Since we have no evidence that anything else carries this message at all, it wouldn't be hard for that statement to be true.

In pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason.

Cite! Seriously, do you have any evidence at all to support that claim?

Of course all the main characters in porn exist primarily in reference to sexual appeal. If that wasn't the case then it wouldn't be porn. In the same way that all the major characters in a war movie exist primarily in reference to war and all the main characters in a horror novel exist primarily in reference to the horror du jour and so forth.

But none of this allows us to conclude that Rocky exists only to be beaten up or that James Bond exists only to kill Russians. All those characters have other reasons for their existence. Often shallow two dimensional reasons, but most characters are shallow and two dimensional.

So I would like to see your evidence for this claim that in pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason. I'll even accept evidence that this is true in even a tiny majority of porn: 51%. Present your evidence that women in 51% of porn exist only to be sexually appealing to men. It can be a peer reviewed study or a "random" selection of porn such as my random selection of magazine covers.

I'm guessing that you won't be able to back this statement up with anything at all.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by DukemNukem

I've seen a few documentaries that are for the idea that its degrading but now I would like us to throw arguments back and forth until we come to a conclusion.

However this might be a difficult topic since there is a wide variety of genres and I don't know if it would be appropriate to sweep them into one. I'll leave that for everyone to decide.

It seems obvious that you can't sweep all the genres into one; many of them don't feature women at all, so how could they possibly be degrading to their image?

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

A culture inflicts harm on the psyche of many when it sends women and girls the message that they matter only inasmuch as they are beautiful and sexually appealing to men, and not because of their intellect, spirituality, artistry, talent, or anything else. Some women of the SDMB spoke out about it in this thread, and someone linked to this opinion piece.

Obviously this message comes in many forms; just look at the magazine covers in any supermarket. But almost by definition, pornography carries the message more strongly by anything else. In pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason.

Nah, you're completely off base there. Porn is made so men can fap. It has nothing to do with an overall demeaning of women any more than kung-fu movies have to do with advocating assault on the Chinese.

It's like my family motto says:
Fapping. If you don't have lady pictues, it's slightly more difficult.™

[Boyo Jim]

If the OP can define "pornography" for us, maybe I can try to address the issue. I would guess that half of today's American TV shows would have been considered pornographic 50 years ago.

[iftheresaway]

Originally Posted by Lobohan

It's like my family motto says:
Fapping. If you don't have lady pictues, it's slightly more difficult.™

this is beautiful. May I steal it and embroider it on a throw pillow?

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Blake

Of course all the main characters in porn exist primarily in reference to sexual appeal. If that wasn't the case then it wouldn't be porn. In the same way that all the major characters in a war movie exist primarily in reference to war and all the main characters in a horror novel exist primarily in reference to the horror du jour and so forth.

But none of this allows us to conclude that Rocky exists only to be beaten up or that James Bond exists only to kill Russians. All those characters have other reasons for their existence. Often shallow two dimensional reasons, but most characters are shallow and two dimensional.

We can conclude that Rocky exists for reasons other than to be beaten up because he is presented in other contexts, and shown in the work to be operating for other reasons. There is a plot, and character development, and so forth, that shows Rocky as a character who has meaning apart from being beaten up.

How successful that effort is, is another question. The point is that the majority of the movie is spent where James Bond isn't killing Russians. How much of a hard-core porn movie is spent where the participants aren't having sex?

So I would like to see your evidence for this claim that in pornography, women exist to be sexually appealing to men and for no other reason. I'll even accept evidence that this is true in even a tiny majority of porn: 51%. Present your evidence that women in 51% of porn exist only to be sexually appealing to men. It can be a peer reviewed study or a "random" selection of porn such as my random selection of magazine covers.

What would the peer-reviewed study be of? I don't see that the question can be quantified.

Regards,
Shodan

[Kobal2]

Only inasmuch as sex is degrading to the woman. Which is to say: most of the time, not as such, no.

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by iftheresaway

this is beautiful. May I steal it and embroider it on a throw pillow?

That's awesome. Given the subject matter, I'd ScotchGuard that pillow.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by Shodan

We can conclude that Rocky exists for reasons other than to be beaten up because he is presented in other contexts, and shown in the work to be operating for other reasons. There is a plot, and character development, and so forth, that shows Rocky as a character who has meaning apart from being beaten up.

How successful that effort is, is another question. The point is that the majority of the movie is spent where James Bond isn't killing Russians. How much of a hard-core porn movie is spent where the participants aren't having sex?
What would the peer-reviewed study be of? I don't see that the question can be quantified.

Regards,
Shodan

I'm that on this very day, somewhere deep in the bowels of a university campus, professors and graduate students are crunching numbers on pornography, armed with a vast array sensors, detectors, recorders, and... lubricants.

And when their results are finally published, we will all think to ourselves, "Why didn't I write that grant proposal?"

[Bryan Ekers]

It's worth nothing the liberal democracies have lots of porn and women's rights, while (for example) the Islamic theocracies have neither, so I'd say social concerns about the effects of porn are a waste of time.

[steronz]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Only inasmuch as sex is degrading to the woman. Which is to say: most of the time, not as such, no.

Is ejaculating all over a woman's face degrading?

There's sex, and then there's what happens in porn videos, and I don't think the two are closely related.

eta: That's not to say that porn itself is degrading, but I worry that it may be teaching young men bad habits.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

I'm that on this very day, somewhere deep in the bowels of a university campus, professors and graduate students are crunching numbers on pornography, armed with a vast array sensors, detectors, recorders, and... lubricants.

And when their results are finally published, we will all think to ourselves, "Why didn't I write that grant proposal?"

And the answer will be "because you work in the Veterinary Sciences Department".

Regards,
Shodan

[Fake Tales of San Francisco]

Originally Posted by steronz

Is ejaculating all over a woman's face degrading?

There's sex, and then there's what happens in porn videos, and I don't think the two are closely related.

eta: That's not to say that porn itself is degrading, but I worry that it may be teaching young men bad habits.

It's only degrading if the woman in question feels degraded. As a bisexual male, I enjoy it, and I do know some of my (girl)friends enjoy it. An equal number don't, of course, but that just shows that everyone is different. There's nothing inherently degrading about the act though, no more than a woman 'forcing' a man to pleasure her by sitting on his face is degrading to the man.

You're right that porn has little relation to actual sex, just like kung fu movies (to borrow the earlier example) have little relation to actual fights. But it's all fantasy, it doesn't teach anybody anything. And it's supply and demand. It's what people want to see, not what they've been forced to think should be normal in the bedroom.

I think people who are misogynistic will seek out misogynistic porn. Misogynistic porn (if you can call it that) does not create misogynistic people.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by psychonaut

It seems obvious that you can't sweep all the genres into one; many of them don't feature women at all, so how could they possibly be degrading to their image?

Gay porn is degrading to women because they're not in it! Sexist gays!

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by Shodan

And the answer will be "because you work in the Veterinary Sciences Department".

Regards,
Shodan

All that would mean is changing a few words and adding some others. And perhaps a different choice of lubricants.

[Maastricht]

Related thread

Were we feminists wrong? Rape is down 85 % while porn use is up and up.....

Research says:
The incidence of rape in the United States has declined 85% in the past 25 years while access to pornography has become freely available to teenagers and adults. The Nixon and Reagan Commissions tried to show that exposure to pornographic materials produced social violence. The reverse may be true: that pornography has reduced social violence.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by steronz

Is ejaculating all over a woman's face degrading?

There's sex, and then there's what happens in porn videos, and I don't think the two are closely related.

eta: That's not to say that porn itself is degrading, but I worry that it may be teaching young men bad habits.

I agree with this. Young guys watch porn, but want to marry a decent and wholesome woman who also acts like Jenna Jameson in bed.

Porn gives these guys the idea that a woman should do anything and everything to please him no matter how disgusting or degrading. And when he gets married, he's in for a real eye opener.

[rat avatar]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I agree with this. Young guys watch porn, but want to marry a decent and wholesome woman who also acts like Jenna Jameson in bed.

Porn gives these guys the idea that a woman should do anything and everything to please him no matter how disgusting or degrading. And when he gets married, he's in for a real eye opener.

Really, I have noticed the opposite, an increased acceptance that woman are sexual beings who are at equal with men in the younger generations.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by jtgain

Porn gives these guys the idea that a woman should do anything and everything to please him no matter how disgusting or degrading. And when he gets married, he's in for a real eye opener.

Man, am I ever glad I saw porn starring a dominatrix before I got married; I knew exactly what marriage involves.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by steronz

Is ejaculating all over a woman's face degrading?

I don't know, does the woman think it's degrading to her ? Then you probably shouldn't do it. Unless she gets off on that shit.

Absolutes are for assholes.

There's sex, and then there's what happens in porn videos, and I don't think the two are closely related.

I don't know, really. I mean, if you're talking about porn in the sense of man-on-man-on-man-on-man-on-woman, then yes, I daresay it doesn't closely correlate with the modern couple's experience in the bedchamber. I hope. Else fuck, but I've wasted my youth.
But if you're talking about "simple" man-on-woman porn, then I'd say it has done a lot for relationships and household sex - be it acceptance of fellatio/cunnilingus and sodomy, or tolerance of toys and plays and so forth. I'd wager the average Joe's and Jane's life in the sack today is somewhat different, and dare I say more interesting, than it was back in the 30s.

That's not to say that porn itself is degrading, but I worry that it may be teaching young men bad habits.

And I absolutely believe it taught me, as a young man I no longer am, good habits. Things like going down on the woman sucking you off, or making sure the girl got off before you did. Or simply to put a wrapper on it (as mandated by French laws on porn).
Modern porn is a bit different in these regards, I suppose - I did notice a rising trend in humiliation and domination porn. But back in my day, it certainly was all about Eve.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

But if you're talking about "simple" man-on-woman porn, then I'd say it has done a lot for relationships and household sex - be it acceptance of fellatio/cunnilingus and sodomy, or tolerance of toys and plays and so forth. I'd wager the average Joe's and Jane's life in the sack today is somewhat different, and dare I say more interesting, than it was back in the 30s.

I agree to a point, but it also brings up the "why won't my wife agree to a 3 some with her best friend?" thoughts, and makes a man think that she's a prude. Or she doesn't like it if I come on her tits, so she doesn't like ME?

Porn is fantasy, but I fear that young (males especially) people see it as how it is supposed to be in the bedroom instead of just a ridiculous fantasy.

[SnakeBabe]

de·grad·ing/diˈgrādiNG/
Adjective: Causing a loss of self-respect; humiliating.

No, porn does not do that, its society that does that to the actress for being in one. Generally, porn is just sexual activity that many people do but on film for others to enjoy viewing. Nothing degrading about sex in my eyes.

[ITR champion]

Originally Posted by kenetic

The existence of porn made by women, for women makes blanket statements like this suspect.

The overwhelming majority of pornography is made by men, for men.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

All that would mean is changing a few words and adding some others. And perhaps a different choice of lubricants.

Sorry, the Women's Studies department got the grant. They already had the dildos.

Regards,
Shodan

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

The overwhelming majority of pornography is made by men, for men.

The overwhelming majority of American Chinese Food is made by Mexicans for white people.

[kenetic]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

The overwhelming majority of pornography is made by men, for men.

Probably, but the existence of exceptions makes your earlier absolute suspect. And a lot of that porn made made by men isn't necessarily degrading to women. So "all porn degrades women" is just something that people who don't like porn say because they don't like porn.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by jtgain

Porn gives these guys the idea that a woman should do anything and everything to please him no matter how disgusting or degrading. And when he gets married, he's in for a real eye opener.

Or maybe the wife is in for a real eye closer.

[BrotherCadfael]

Originally Posted by Shodan

And the answer will be "because you work in the Veterinary Sciences Department".

"He majored in Animal Husbandry, until they...caught him at it one day..."

[even sven]

I think porn is awesome, but I also think it's good to have dialog about it.

I do think cultures can develop some unhealthy ideas about women- we all can see there is a difference between how culture treats women in Sweden versus in Saudi Arabia. And I do think that attitudes towards female sexuality are a big part of how cultures end up with those differences.

I've spent a lot of time around sex tourists in Asia. There is selection bias, as many sex tourists start out with some weird ideas about women. But i have seen how purchasing sex regularly can make those weird ideas even weirder. For example, sex tourists can get it in their head that every woman in a country is or should be available for them to have sex with, and I've seen guys get violently angry when non-working women have rejected them. It's easy to develop a sense of entitlement, and to lose track of the fact that your "right" to purchase sex with money is also dependent on the other partner's willingness to take part in that transaction.

Anyway, I think a lot of open dialog from different perspectives is the key. And I also think it's important to teach young women to understand, appreciate, and take charge of their sexuality.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by even sven

I do think cultures can develop some unhealthy ideas about women- we all can see there is a difference between how culture treats women in Sweden versus in Saudi Arabia. And I do think that attitudes towards female sexuality are a big part of how cultures end up with those differences.

Possibly also why they have different attitudes towards porn.

ISTM that controlling sexuality, especially female sexuality, is a big part of some cultures. Those cultures are going to be threatened by depictions of unrestrained sexuality, even the ridiculous distortions of porn. Sure, on some level I am sure they would like to think they could have a sexual partner who was like fantasy, but then that creates the classic Madonna-whore complex - if she is willing to do that with me, how can I be sure she won't do it with the pizza delivery guy? IYSWIM.

I can't remember where I read it, but the writer described the attitudes in (I think it was) Afghanistan before the Taliban was ousted. They seemed to think that Westerners were these ueber-sex machines who would do anything at the drop of a hat. And that was both attractive, and frightening. Obviously there were multiple causes of this, but I wonder if some of it was from exposure to Western pornography, which is highly illegal but not necessarily unobtainable (these were students, IIRC).

But I can see how exposure to porn for someone with no real contact with real women can lead to distorted attitudes.

But i have seen how purchasing sex regularly can make those weird ideas even weirder.

Same with porn, I don't doubt.

I've spent a lot of time around sex tourists in Asia.

I am resisting the urge to make a cheap joke, so instead I will ask how that happened?

Regards,
Shodan

[SnakeBabe]

Even a job in a "G" rated corporate world can be degrading

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by even sven

Anyway, I think a lot of open dialog from different perspectives is the key. And I also think it's important to teach young women to understand, appreciate, and take charge of their sexuality.

I agree with this, however, I fail to see how watching a gangbang movie contributes to this in any way. If anything it causes males to think differently: that women are there simply to do whatever it takes to please him in bed. Instead of a woman taking charge of her sexuality, she is now expected to behave like women in porn movies.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I agree with this, however, I fail to see how watching a gangbang movie contributes to this in any way. If anything it causes males to think differently: that women are there simply to do whatever it takes to please him in bed. Instead of a woman taking charge of her sexuality, she is now expected to behave like women in porn movies.

Well there may be some special cases like Taliban students who have never met a woman not related to them who have been exposed to Western porn, but for the most part, I think most guys know porn is a fantasy, not real. Like science fiction and other fantasies. They know the women are acting a role, however real the sex is. It's not a difficult concept.

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by Shodan

I can't remember where I read it, but the writer described the attitudes in (I think it was) Afghanistan before the Taliban was ousted. They seemed to think that Westerners were these ueber-sex machines who would do anything at the drop of a hat. And that was both attractive, and frightening. Obviously there were multiple causes of this, but I wonder if some of it was from exposure to Western pornography, which is highly illegal but not necessarily unobtainable (these were students, IIRC).

This was absolutely the case in many communities in India when I first lived there back in the '90s. The "A-rated" (for "adult") movies restricted for extreme "Sexual Content" that the average Indian man could see in theaters (showings to which women were absolutely not admitted, of course) were all porn flicks from the Western world. This gave a lot of less-clueful Indian men the notion that Western women were all hussies.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

Well there may be some special cases like Taliban students who have never met a woman not related to them who have been exposed to Western porn, but for the most part, I think most guys know porn is a fantasy, not real. Like science fiction and other fantasies. They know the women are acting a role, however real the sex is. It's not a difficult concept.

But it's subtle. Remember when you first started dating a particular woman? You always wanted to find out if she would swallow come, allow anal sex, want to experiment with a 3 some, or whatever other stuff that women in porn movies did. And while you could accept a "no" answer to any of the above, you are secretly resentful as to why she can't do it. It can't be THAT bad because Christy Canyon does it all of the time!

I would argue that prior to porn being so readily available, such things weren't as important, thought about as frequently, or used as a metric to determine the "worth" of your girlfriend in bed.

[Chronos]

The other day I read a scientific paper written by a woman, and it didn't address her sexuality, spirituality, athletic ability, monetary worth, or moral philosophy at all. Are scientific papers therefore degrading because they imply academics exist only for studying specialized subfields of science?

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by jtgain

I would argue that prior to porn being so readily available, such things weren't as important, thought about as frequently, or used as a metric to determine the "worth" of your girlfriend in bed.

Well, mostly because back then there were still some fairly prevalent conservative cultural attitudes branding such things as "dirty" or "perverted". A number of self-identified social conservatives will still argue in public that any sex act except monogamous marital genital intercourse is icky and unnatural, but popular opinion in general has mostly rejected that view nowadays.

It may be that the pendulum of popular opinion has swung too far in the other direction at the moment, and acts that were once too apt to be considered unthinkable are now too apt to be considered mandatory.

On the whole, though, I think we'll probably settle down into a more tolerant individualism where couples can be open about their personal sexual tastes without condemning each other as either creepily perverted or frigidly prudish. So I'd hope, at any rate.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by jtgain

But it's subtle. Remember when you first started dating a particular woman? You always wanted to find out if she would swallow come, allow anal sex, want to experiment with a 3 some, or whatever other stuff that women in porn movies did. And while you could accept a "no" answer to any of the above, you are secretly resentful as to why she can't do it. It can't be THAT bad because Christy Canyon does it all of the time!

I would argue that prior to porn being so readily available, such things weren't as important, thought about as frequently, or used as a metric to determine the "worth" of your girlfriend in bed.

No, I never resented my wife's sexual limits. That whole "love" thing, y'know. Not something that shows up in porn much.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

No, I never resented my wife's sexual limits. That whole "love" thing, y'know. Not something that shows up in porn much.

Perhaps "resent" was too strong of a word. Plus, this is your wife. You have learned everything about her and accepted the good with the bad (not that sexual limits are bad). I was talking about during your younger days when you just started dating a particular person.

[SnakeBabe]

Originally Posted by jtgain

...if she would swallow come, allow anal sex, want to experiment with a 3 some, or whatever ......

To some these things are fun activities not at all degrading, to others it is degrading. So that leaves "Degradation" a matter of opinion so these questions may never have an absolute answer.

[SnakeBabe]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

No, I never resented my wife's sexual limits. That whole "love" thing, y'know....

Good Hubby

[Randvek]

Originally Posted by jtgain

But it's subtle. Remember when you first started dating a particular woman? You always wanted to find out if she would swallow come, allow anal sex, want to experiment with a 3 some, or whatever other stuff that women in porn movies did. And while you could accept a "no" answer to any of the above, you are secretly resentful as to why she can't do it. It can't be THAT bad because Christy Canyon does it all of the time!

I would argue that prior to porn being so readily available, such things weren't as important, thought about as frequently, or used as a metric to determine the "worth" of your girlfriend in bed.

I think it's cute that you seem to think that you know how "men" react to porn.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by jtgain

But it's subtle. Remember when you first started dating a particular woman? You always wanted to find out if she would swallow come, allow anal sex, want to experiment with a 3 some, or whatever other stuff that women in porn movies did. And while you could accept a "no" answer to any of the above, you are secretly resentful as to why she can't do it. It can't be THAT bad because Christy Canyon does it all of the time!

I would argue that prior to porn being so readily available, such things weren't as important, thought about as frequently, or used as a metric to determine the "worth" of your girlfriend in bed.

I was in college when Deep Throat came out (the showing I saw was sponsored by the College Young Republicans) and porn then was shown in respectable theaters. I managed to avoid the mindset you claim I should have. Here is a clue for you: not everything one sees in a porn movie is something you want to do. Just like regular movies. Men actually do view their partners as people, no matter what you think.

[Acid Lamp]

Originally Posted by jtgain

But it's subtle. Remember when you first started dating a particular woman? You always wanted to find out if she would swallow come, allow anal sex, want to experiment with a 3 some, or whatever other stuff that women in porn movies did. And while you could accept a "no" answer to any of the above, you are secretly resentful as to why she can't do it. It can't be THAT bad because Christy Canyon does it all of the time!

I would argue that prior to porn being so readily available, such things weren't as important, thought about as frequently, or used as a metric to determine the "worth" of your girlfriend in bed.

Perhaps it's just the circles I travel in, but I've never heard any of my friends or acquaintances discussing their partners in this manner. Usually any unrequited fantasies are discussed in regards to how to introduce one's partner to the idea of an expanded sexual agenda rather than as a metric or worth.