Do Serial Killers ever just stop?

[gytalf2000]

Has there ever been a case of a serial killer just stopping? Make a decision to stop killing, drive up to the local police station, give the authorities a list of the victims and where to find the remains, and then accept the inevitable consequences of their actions -- has that ever been done?

[dolphinboy]

Some serial killers do stop (e.g. the Zodiac Killer), but they don't necessarily turn themselves in. Perhaps they just die or get incarcerated on some other charge that keeps them off the streets for a while...

[TriPolar]

Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, killed his last victim in 1991, but was not arrested until 2005. However, he did continue to send letters to the police and the media until 2005.

[Washoe]

What’s-his-face—the guy in Santa Cruz, California in the sixties. Called the cops from a pay phone and promptly retired from the business.

[heathen earthling]

Originally Posted by Washoe

What’s-his-face—the guy in Santa Cruz, California in the sixties. Called the cops from a pay phone and promptly retired from the business.

Edmund Kemper.

[pravnik]

Quite a few serial killers age out and quit killing like Rader and Zodiac apparently did, and a few even turn themselves in to the police, a famous example being Edmund Kemper. Kemper called the police from a phone booth and confessed to his murders, after overcoming their extreme skeptcism.

tru.tv's website has a pretty good article on some others: Serial Killers who Surrender.

ETA: Scooped on Kemper!

[gytalf2000]

Originally Posted by heathen earthling

Edmund Kemper.

Okay, I did not know about him. I have checked his Wikipedia entry. Fascinating!

[Loach]

So if I'm reading between the lines correctly... yes gytalf2000 its OK to just stop. While you are at it turn yourself in.

[ftg]

One of the problems with the unsolved cases like the Zodiac killer is we don't know if they voluntarily stopped. Perhaps they died, were jailed for a very long time for another crime, or moved to someplace far enough away that their crimes in the new locale weren't connected to the crimes in the old one.

If with arrest, confession and conviction, things are not always simple. The Boston Strangler is a particularly muddied case. We have no idea if Albert DeSalvo committed most of the crimes. It's possible that someone else let DeSalvo take the blame and the "real" strangler continued to commit crimes in Boston and possibly elsewhere.

[gytalf2000]

Originally Posted by pravnik

Quite a few serial killers age out and quit killing like Rader and Zodiac apparently did, and a few even turn themselves in to the police, a famous example being Edmund Kemper. Kemper called the police from a phone booth and confessed to his murders, after overcoming their extreme skeptcism.

tru.tv's website has a pretty good article on some others: Serial Killers who Surrender.

ETA: Scooped on Kemper!

Thanks very much for the link.

[NoClueBoy]

Originally Posted by heathen earthling

Edmund Kemper.

The Wiki page says he's coming up for a parole hearing this July!

I'm pretty sure that's just a formality of the sentence he received and not a likely probability of release. Still, it weirds me out a little. (I remember the news stories about all those killings in the area as a little kid.)

[gytalf2000]

Originally Posted by Loach

So if I'm reading between the lines correctly... yes gytalf2000 its OK to just stop. While you are at it turn yourself in.

Wow, what a relief! At least I'll have a clear conscience when they throw the switch.


Seriously, now -- I had a dream a few nights ago, where I was watching some CSI type of show, with this scenario. A serial killer had just walked into the local police precinct, and confessed to a few dozen murders.

I really should have realized right away that I was dreaming, because Caroline Munro was in it as one of the principal investigators, and she was dressed as "Stella Star" from the 1978 clunker of a movie, "Starcrash" :


http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/th...sh-on-dvd.html


I have some strange dreams...

[Annie-Xmas]

Jack the Ripper comes to mind.

Most serial killers are compelled to kill until they are incarcerated or die. Ted Bundy escaped from prison and could have stayed out. But he went on a horredous killing spree in Florida, one of the top states for executing serial killers. Ann Rule, who knew Bundy, speculates that on some unconscious level he knew that being dead was the only way he would stop killing.

[gytalf2000]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

Jack the Ripper comes to mind.

Most serial killers are compelled to kill until they are incarcerated or die. Ted Bundy escaped from prison and could have stayed out. But he went on a horredous killing spree in Florida, one of the top states for executing serial killers. Ann Rule, who knew Bundy, speculates that on some unconscious level he knew that being dead was the only way he would stop killing.

Yeah, I wonder if Jack the Ripper really just ceased his killing on his own -- did he stop at five? Of course, something might have happened to him, like dropping dead of a heart attack or stroke. I doubt that he "got religion", or anything like that...

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by gytalf2000

Yeah, I wonder if Jack the Ripper really just ceased his killing on his own -- did he stop at five?

I think one of the suspects died and another was incarcerated shortly after the last known murder. So it's possible that's why those killings ended.

[gytalf2000]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I think one of the suspects died and another was incarcerated shortly after the last known murder. So it's possible that's why those killings ended.

I didn't know that. Interesting!

[Omar Little]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, killed his last victim in 1991, but was not arrested until 2005. However, he did continue to send letters to the police and the media until 2005.

Yeah but I thought he didn't start corresponding with the media until about 2004, so he was idle for about 14 years. In the interim, he joined a church and was appointed to its board, which is how he was eventually caught, because he stupidly used the church's computer to create the messages he sent to the media, which they traced back to the church. And he was one of about 5 people that had access to the computer in question.

[JillGat]

I always wondered why Rader (BTK)quit, as he seemed to be still really enamored by his secret killer side. Continuing to communicate with police and boasting, etc.

I lived in Santa Cruz when Kemper was killing people. He killed his grandparents when he was 15 and then later started killing again (also killed his mom and some of her friends, as well as a number of strangers). There were actually two different serial killers active at the same time in Santa Cruz then and it was really scary. Three years before that, a random, Charles Manson-type killer murdered Dr. Ohta and his family. He was everybody's eye doctor and everyone knew his kids.

Kemper killed a number of female hitchikers. Hitchhiking was a major mode of transportation, especially for college students, in those days. With all the media, most women stopped hitchhiking, but some just decided to be more cautious and discriminating about which cars they got into. It was one of the main ways students got up the hill to UCSC.

Unfortunately Kemper was driving a UCSC car with the logo on the side, which was issued to his mom. Looked pretty safe to most women hitchiking onto campus. He would reach across them to "check if the passenger door was locked" and drop a chapstick behind the door handle so they couldn't open the door.

[R. P. McMurphy]

One of the most effective cures of criminal behavior is the passage of time. Old people don't commit crimes at the same rate as young people.

A lot of what serial killers do is sexual in nature. It seems to make sense that a drop in the libido due to age might be enough to make a serial killer stop.

That's just a theory.

[carnivorousplant]

Originally Posted by R. P. McMurphy

One of the most effective cures of criminal behavior is the passage of time. Old people don't commit crimes at the same rate as young people.

A lot of what serial killers do is sexual in nature. It seems to make sense that a drop in the libido due to age might be enough to make a serial killer stop.

That's just a theory.

Interesting.

[Otara]

Kemper reads to me as someone who gave himself in once he'd been identified.

Ie it wasnt so much a case of deciding to stop killing as he knew the game was over.

Otara

[Washoe]

Originally Posted by JillGat

I lived in Santa Cruz when Kemper was killing people. He killed his grandparents when he was 15 and then later started killing again (also killed his mom and some of her friends, as well as a number of strangers). There were actually two different serial killers active at the same time in Santa Cruz then and it was really scary. Three years before that, a random, Charles Manson-type killer murdered Dr. Ohta and his family. He was everybody's eye doctor and everyone knew his kids.

My uncle was a prominent local M.D. in Santa Cruz at that time. He was constantly, and I mean constantly going on and on and on about the serial killings and the dangers of hitchhiking. He never let it drop. I wonder if he knew that eye doctor personally.

[coremelt]

Originally Posted by R. P. McMurphy

A lot of what serial killers do is sexual in nature. It seems to make sense that a drop in the libido due to age might be enough to make a serial killer stop.

There's a Freudian theory that predicts the opposite. Eg if a serial killer gets sexual pleasure from killing and as they get older it may get harder and harder to get sexual pleasure from any normal activity while they still get sexual pleasure from killing.

Which is the problem with psychology in general, you can have two perfectly valid theories predicting opposite results.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by coremelt

There's a Freudian theory that predicts the opposite. Eg if a serial killer gets sexual pleasure from killing and as they get older it may get harder and harder to get sexual pleasure from any normal activity while they still get sexual pleasure from killing.

Which is the problem with psychology in general, you can have two perfectly valid theories predicting opposite results.

But in this case you only have one possible valid theory because the other one's Freudian

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I think one of the suspects died and another was incarcerated shortly after the last known murder. So it's possible that's why those killings ended.

Care to elaborate? There were any number of suspects- quite a few were really out of left field.

To throw that statement into GQ doesn't really help.

[njtt]

Originally Posted by coremelt

There's a Freudian theory that predicts the opposite. Eg if a serial killer gets sexual pleasure from killing and as they get older it may get harder and harder to get sexual pleasure from any normal activity while they still get sexual pleasure from killing.

In what way is that Freudian? Just because it refers to sex? It does not appeal to any of the controversial and distinctive concepts of Freudian theory: no superego, no Oedipus complex, nothing like that.

Originally Posted by coremelt

Which is the problem with psychology in general, you can have two perfectly valid theories predicting opposite results.

Assuming that you mean plausible rather than valid, you could say exactly the same thing about physics, or any other science. That is why scientists do experiments.

And yes, psychologists do do experiments to test their theories. It might be impractical to an experiment about serial killer motivation in an ethical way, but that has nothing to do with the scientific status of psychology. If we do not know so much about psychology as we do about about physics, it is because the phenomena it studies are a lot more complicated.

[Jormungandr]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, killed his last victim in 1991, but was not arrested until 2005. However, he did continue to send letters to the police and the media until 2005.

He stopped killing people, but not victimizing them. His job as a compliance officer for the city apparently was enough to satisfy him for a while.

[carnivorousplant]

Originally Posted by Jormungandr

He stopped killing people, but not victimizing them. His job as a compliance officer for the city apparently was enough to satisfy him for a while.

Wow.

[NoClueBoy]

Originally Posted by coremelt

There's a Freudian theory that predicts the opposite. Eg if a serial killer gets sexual pleasure from killing and as they get older it may get harder and harder to get sexual pleasure from any normal activity while they still get sexual pleasure from killing.

Which is the problem with psychology in general, you can have two perfectly valid theories predicting opposite results.

Funny. I had that thought about half formulated in my mind when reading about the sexual nature of some killings. You worded it much better.

Of course, we might be wrong. But you worded it well.

[Darth Panda]

Originally Posted by JillGat

I always wondered why Rader (BTK)quit, as he seemed to be still really enamored by his secret killer side.

Probably took an arrow to the knee.

[muldoonthief]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

Yeah but I thought he didn't start corresponding with the media until about 2004, so he was idle for about 14 years. In the interim, he joined a church and was appointed to its board, which is how he was eventually caught, because he stupidly used the church's computer to create the messages he sent to the media, which they traced back to the church. And he was one of about 5 people that had access to the computer in question.

To be fair, he did ask the police first if they'd be able to trace him if he sent them a floppy disk. And those lying cops told him that sending a disk would be perfectly safe.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Care to elaborate? There were any number of suspects- quite a few were really out of left field.

To throw that statement into GQ doesn't really help.

I don't understand your objection here. Anyway, I was referring to the fact that one famous suspect (Montague Druitt) killed himself a few weeks after the last "confirmed" Jack the Ripper murder, and 'David Cohen' was institutionalized around that time. So if either of them committed the murders, then they stopped because the killer died or was institutionalized.

[yanceylebeef]

Gary Ridgeway (The Green River Killer) killed most of his victims in the 80s and 90s. He was finally arrested in 2002 or 2003. I can't remember exactly. He may not have stopped completely, but he definitely slowed down.

[puddleglum]

The Green River Killer got remarried, slowed and the stopped killing. There were 11 years between his last known victim and his arrest. He was arrested for attempting to pick up a prostitute a few weeks before his arrest so he may have been thinking about getting back into killing.

[StusBlues]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I don't understand your objection here. Anyway, I was referring to the fact that one famous suspect (Montague Druitt) killed himself a few weeks after the last "confirmed" Jack the Ripper murder, and 'David Cohen' was institutionalized around that time. So if either of them committed the murders, then they stopped because the killer died or was institutionalized.

Add Aaron Kosminski to that list.

[thumpic]

I did..........





for now.....

[Bozuit]

Originally Posted by ftg

One of the problems with the unsolved cases like the Zodiac killer is we don't know if they voluntarily stopped. Perhaps they died, were jailed for a very long time for another crime, or moved to someplace far enough away that their crimes in the new locale weren't connected to the crimes in the old one.

If with arrest, confession and conviction, things are not always simple. The Boston Strangler is a particularly muddied case. We have no idea if Albert DeSalvo committed most of the crimes. It's possible that someone else let DeSalvo take the blame and the "real" strangler continued to commit crimes in Boston and possibly elsewhere.

I've often thought the ones that just "disappear" may have just decided to do something more careful. It can't be that hard to murder people without anyone being able to link the deaths, if you really can pick random targets, change methods etc. I don't know much about the psychology of serial killers but maybe some just "grow up" and find a way to satisfy their desire to kill without unnecessary risk.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by StusBlues

Add Aaron Kosminski to that list.

I was thinking of him earlier, but as the link says, he was not institutionalized until several years later (1891) and may only be on the ever-growing roster of suspects because he was confused with another inmate (Cohen).

[Dan Norder]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I was thinking of him earlier, but as the link says, he was not institutionalized until several years later (1891) and may only be on the ever-growing roster of suspects because he was confused with another inmate (Cohen).

Kind of getting a little off topic here, but it's actually more likely Cohen was confused with Kosminski. The last killing in the official police file of the Whitechapel murders did happen in 1891. Most people these days think of Mary Kelly in November of 1888 as the last Ripper murder, but which killings should be attributed to the same killer was and is still very much disputed.

The police officials who wrote about Ripper suspects didn't seem to know much at all about them and confused the facts about their various lives together. The various facts listed about Kosminski actually combined information about Piser, Sadler and another lesser known suspect together into one imaginary character. Similarly, the description of Tumblety as a suspect in Littlechild's letter is clearly talking about Druitt half the time instead.

But, back to the point. You can't really use the Jack the Ripper murders as an argument for or against a serial killer just deciding to stop because we don't know who the killer actually was (anyone who says they do is deluding themselves) or when the murders stopped.

[anson2995]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

The Green River Killer got remarried, slowed and the stopped killing. There were 11 years between his last known victim and his arrest. He was arrested for attempting to pick up a prostitute a few weeks before his arrest so he may have been thinking about getting back into killing.

Ridgway was convicted of 48 murders, and 43 of them took place in a span of about 18 months (1982-84). The average time between murders was about 8 days. Ridgeway says that his kill rate slowed after he got married. but in reality, what stopped him may have been the fact that the police identified him as a suspect. The police gave him a polygraph test and took hair and saliva samples.

After that, he committed three murders in four years, then one 8 years later.

[Rampant Coypu]

Ed Kemper stopped, because he was a decent man in spite of being a serial killer.

His last two victims were people who had wronged him during his life. The same might have been true of his first two victims. But the main thing is that Kemper stopped himself.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Rampant Coypu

Ed Kemper stopped, because he was a decent man in spite of being a serial killer.

His last two victims were people who had wronged him during his life. The same might have been true of his first two victims. But the main thing is that Kemper stopped himself.

This has to be a wind up. He killed his grandparents when he was 15. He killed 8 more people before he left (including his mother) and was running when caught by police.

Hardly stopped.

Story.

[Rampant Coypu]

Originally Posted by Cicero

This has to be a wind up. He killed his grandparents when he was 15. He killed 8 more people before he left (including his mother) and was running when caught by police.

Hardly stopped.

Story.

OK, two grandparents, six strangers, his mom and his mom's friend and he turned himself in and has allowed himself to become a test subject in many studies.

I think Kemper is as moral as a serial killer can be. Four of his victims were family members who had wronged him and after killing six random strangers he killed two more and turned himself in. Kemper is as good as serial killers get.

[anson2995]

Originally Posted by Rampant Coypu

I think Kemper is as moral as a serial killer can be. Four of his victims were family members who had wronged him and after killing six random strangers he killed two more and turned himself in. Kemper is as good as serial killers get.

I think that's a bizarre view of things. Sociopaths blame others irrationally for their problems, and just because Kemper felt his grandparents and mother "wronged him" doesn't mean they did, or that his actions were justified. (And I'm not sure the facts even support the idea that his mother or grandparents did anything to him).

Kemper's necrophilia and cannibalism suggests extreme psychosis. He described himself as a "hunter" in prison interviews. He described the thrill he got from mutilating his victims.

And he stopped himself, but mostly because he was disappointed that his crimes had not attracted the notoriety he felt he deserved. In this sense, he's similar to Dennis Rader.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by gytalf2000

Yeah, I wonder if Jack the Ripper really just ceased his killing on his own -- did he stop at five? Of course, something might have happened to him, like dropping dead of a heart attack or stroke. I doubt that he "got religion", or anything like that...

Serial killers display a fairly linear progression in terms of "skill"- that is, killers like JTR, who stab their victims, become a lot better at it as they go on. However, the five known victims were all killed in pretty much the same fashion, so he had probably killed others before them.

[Wakinyan]

Originally Posted by Rampant Coypu

OK, two grandparents, six strangers, his mom and his mom's friend and he turned himself in and has allowed himself to become a test subject in many studies.

I think Kemper is as moral as a serial killer can be. Four of his victims were family members who had wronged him and after killing six random strangers he killed two more and turned himself in. Kemper is as good as serial killers get.

(Guys, listen, I think Kemper has internet access from the prison.)

[Tibby or Not Tibby]

Originally Posted by Rampant Coypu

Ed Kemper stopped, because he was a decent man in spite of being a serial killer.

His last two victims were people who had wronged him during his life. The same might have been true of his first two victims. But the main thing is that Kemper stopped himself.

I can’t argue with that assessment. Ed Kemper is a decent man. Well, alright, there may be some merit in postulating that it edges a bit toward the outer boundary of proper decorum to have oral sex with the severed head of one’s mother, then using it as a dartboard, but all things considered, really not a bad bloke at all.

[Wesley Clark]

Originally Posted by Tibby or Not Tibby

I can’t argue with that assessment. Ed Kemper is a decent man. Well, alright, there may be some merit in postulating that it edges a bit toward the outer boundary of proper decorum to have oral sex with the severed head of one’s mother, then using it as a dartboard, but all things considered, really not a bad bloke at all.

Don't be a playa hata

[ralph124c]

What about Ed Gein? (the inspiration for Hannibal Lector).
Did he quit killing and flaying his victims? Or did he only stop when caught?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Gein was caught a few days after taking his last victim from a hardware store, so the latter.