Characters who are just too perfect.

[well he's back]

There was Melanie in "Gone With the Wind", Beth in "Little Women". Now there's Castle's daughter in the tv show "Castle" (but I can't quite hate her.)

[salinqmind]

Phylicia Rashad? Bill Cosby's TV wife?

[sparky!]

Spenser during many of the books written during the late 80s & 90s.

[blondebear]

Lance White

[cjepson]

Dickens' good characters tend to be sickeningly good. Agnes Wickfield in David Copperfield, Lucie Manette in A Tale of Two Cities, and of course Tiny Tim.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by blondebear

Lance White

Oh, no doubt about it. Lance is perfect. It's his only flaw.

[Greg Charles]

All good examples, but what is this type of character called? A Pollyanna.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

I'm taking a class on Arthurian legends, and oy, the glut of perfect knights to contend with! I really want to punch that Lancelot in the face some time.

[Greg Charles]

Don't you mean Galahad, "The Pure"? Lancelot had a pretty serious fall from grace, which balanced out his other accomplishments.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

Him, too. But Chretien's Lancelot in Knight of the Cart is still the worse offender. Ugh.

P.S. everyone in Malory with their own sub-book (so far). I'm looking at you, Tristram.

[Ethilrist]

Roger Moore's James Bond.

[ftg]

Originally Posted by Greg Charles

All good examples, but what is this type of character called? A Pollyanna.

The term Mary Sue would probably be used, but it is a everchanging and vague term. See the linked article. (Warning: TV Tropes!)

[WordMan]

[Buckaroo Bonsai, Across the 8th Dimension]

Buckaroo: Okay, let's get her out of that cell. Perfect Tommy, give her your jacket.

Perfect Tommy: Why do *I* have to give her my jacket?

Buckaroo: Because you're perfect.

Perfect Tommy: (taking off jacket) You do have a point there.

[/Buckaroo Bonsai, Across the 8th Dimension]


In Top Gun, Val Kilmer's Iceman was set up as being too perfect...but he ended deciding that Maverick could ride his tail any time...

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by WordMan

...In Top Gun, Val Kilmer's Iceman was set up as being too perfect...but he ended deciding that Maverick could ride his tail any time...

I've heard tons of stuff about the gay undertones of that movie, but this reference escaped me entirely.

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Boyo Jim

I've heard tons of stuff about the gay undertones of that movie, but this reference escaped me entirely.

I think it comes from either Pauline Kael's discussion of the movie, or that clip where Quentin Tarantino, in cameo in another movie, breaks down the gay undertones and ends his story with that line...

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyN8VN4BSzM at the end.

[Lust4Life]

I always found Hawkeye in MASH nausea inducing.

He was a brilliant surgeon, a rebel, cared about little children, cared about the Koreans, cared about the soldiers fighting the war, treated the enlisted people as equals, was fancied by all of the nurses;including army barmy Hotlips.

He was also brave, amusing..............

I'm sorry, I can't go on without a bucket.

Also George Clooneys character in some U.S. hospital soap where he played a paedeotrician and was forever agonising over the "children", was pretty vomit inducing, though IRL he's a really decent bloke.

[Reno Nevada]

Originally Posted by Malleus, Incus, Stapes!

I'm taking a class on Arthurian legends, and oy, the glut of perfect knights to contend with! I really want to punch that Lancelot in the face some time.

I guess this is a hijack, but I have to recommend Arthur Rex by Thomas Berger as a palette cleanser for you. It is a strange, wonderful, and very funny version the Arthurian cycle, mostly based on Le Mort.

[Labdad]

Originally Posted by Lust4Life

I always found Hawkeye in MASH nausea inducing.

He was a brilliant surgeon, a rebel, cared about little children, cared about the Koreans, cared about the soldiers fighting the war, treated the enlisted people as equals, was fancied by all of the nurses;including army barmy Hotlips.

He was also brave, amusing..............

I'm sorry, I can't go on without a bucket.

This. Of course, as Alan Alda wrote and directed more episodes, he became even more unbearable.

The only one even MORE unbearable was BJ!

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by WordMan

I think it comes from either Pauline Kael's discussion of the movie, or that clip where Quentin Tarantino, in cameo in another movie, breaks down the gay undertones and ends his story with that line...

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyN8VN4BSzM at the end.

Plenty of references to homoerotic Top Gun scenes on this very board:
And the most homoerotic movie ever made is...
Top Gun (1986)
Gayest Scene in a Non-Gay Film
Gay Subtexts I Probably Missed In Films

[Agent Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Lust4Life

I always found Hawkeye in MASH nausea inducing.

He was a brilliant surgeon, a rebel, cared about little children, cared about the Koreans, cared about the soldiers fighting the war, treated the enlisted people as equals, was fancied by all of the nurses;including army barmy Hotlips.

He was also brave, amusing..............

I'm sorry, I can't go on without a bucket.

He did call black people "Negroes," but that may be a sign of the times more than anything else. Sorry, I got nothin'.

[Smeghead]

Originally Posted by cjepson

Dickens' good characters tend to be sickeningly good. Agnes Wickfield in David Copperfield, Lucie Manette in A Tale of Two Cities, and of course Tiny Tim.

I think Agnes is more just sickening, rather than sickeningly good. She was obviously written to be a complete waste of flesh.

Strike that - I was thinking of Dora. My bad. I'll leave this up here anyway.

[Nocturne]

Sara Crewe in A Little Princess. I didn't notice when I first read the book as a very young girl, but as I got older I saw how nauseatingly perfect Sara was and it repelled me a bit.

Then again, I don't know if I would've had as much sympathy for her had she been less perfect.

[hogarth]

Originally Posted by cjepson

Dickens' good characters tend to be sickeningly good. Agnes Wickfield in David Copperfield, Lucie Manette in A Tale of Two Cities, and of course Tiny Tim.

That's who I was going to mention, too. Little Nell, Mr Pickwick, John Jarndyce, Mr Brownlow...

[Voyager]

Paladin from Have Gun Will Travel. In one episode he stumbles into a ranch in his underwear, having been ambushed. By the end he has taught the cook gourmet cooking, out poetried the widow owner of the ranch and of course caused her to fall for him, did forensic accounting to prove the foreman was ripping her off, and of course beat the snot out of the bad guys.
In other shows he judged a wine contest, reduced a chess grandmaster to a quivering heap of frustration (while Paladin read the paper) showed how to hunt tigers, and fed Oscar Wilde most of his most famous lines.
I'm happy to say that the writers were well aware this was funny.

[notfrommensa]

A lot of retro TV Moms are portrayed as nearly perfect.

June Cleaver
Mama Walton
Ma Ingalls

[Lynn Bodoni]

Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot

He did call black people "Negroes," but that may be a sign of the times more than anything else. Sorry, I got nothin'.

Back in the time of the Korean war/police action/freshman mixer, "Negroes" was considered the POLITE term for that particular segment of the population. It was far more common to refer to them as coons, niggers, and other similarly delightful names.

[NoClueBoy]

Wesley Crusher

[Jragon]

א is almost too sexy, but π is just obsessed over and abused to such a horrifying degree by its fans that I'd call it too perfect.

D&R

[Alessan]

Well, there's Captain Awesome from Chuck. That's why they called him Captain Awesome.

Originally Posted by Lust4Life

Also George Clooneys character in some U.S. hospital soap where he played a paedeotrician and was forever agonising over the "children", was pretty vomit inducing, though IRL he's a really decent bloke.

Are you referring to the character of Doug Ross from ER? The man was a reckless, self-centered, insubordinate, impulsive, self-destructive philanderer, and one of the least "perfect" characters on the show; his dedication to his patients was just about his sole redeeming quality. I suspect you may have been blinded by Clooney's good looks.

[Pitchmeister]

The main character in Chocolat - fortunately, I don't remember much of this movie, but she was so vomit-inducingly good to everyone that it stuck in my mind.

[Lust4Life]

Originally Posted by Alessan

Well, there's Captain Awesome from Chuck. That's why they called him Captain Awesome.



Are you referring to the character of Doug Ross from ER? The man was a reckless, self-centered, insubordinate, impulsive, self-destructive philanderer, and one of the least "perfect" characters on the show; his dedication to his patients was just about his sole redeeming quality. I suspect you may have been blinded by Clooney's good looks.

DAMN ! you just see right through my he man persona !

I'm flogging that closet right now !

[MrDibble]

Originally Posted by ftg

The term Mary Sue would probably be used, but it is a everchanging and vague term. See the linked article. (Warning: TV Tropes!)

It's a Mary Sue if it's seen as an author insertion character, mostly, whereas Pollyana is more generic, I think. One is a subset of the other, almost.

The Vampire Lestat always struck me as this.

[Jim's Son]

Victor Laszlo (Paul Henreid) in "Casablanca". And Henreid knew it, reluctantly taking the role because it would cast him as a stiff forever.

[wolf in second hand clothing]

That pretty boy from Criminal Minds. Has the worst of Wesley Crusher's "oh, I just happen to have an encyclopedic knowledge of this thing that is required at this exact moment". He has the same half assed flaws as the protagonist of Twilight.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by MrDibble

It's a Mary Sue if it's seen as an author insertion character, mostly, whereas Pollyana is more generic, I think. One is a subset of the other, almost.

The Vampire Lestat always struck me as this.

No a Mary Sue is usually an author insertion character, but need not be. A Pollyanna is just a girl (or character, regardless of gender) who's overwhelmingly, sickeningly optimistic regardless of character flaws or the world around them. Half the characters in Candide are Pollyannas (that's practically the premise -- it's a deconstruction of a philosophy that essentially promotes being a Pollyanna), but very few of them are "too perfect" or Mary Sues/Marty Stus.

[KneadToKnow]

Originally Posted by WordMan

In Top Gun, Val Kilmer's Iceman was set up as being too perfect

Different trope, actually.

[Finagle]

Originally Posted by cjepson

Dickens' good characters tend to be sickeningly good. Agnes Wickfield in David Copperfield, Lucie Manette in A Tale of Two Cities, and of course Tiny Tim.

I thought Esther Summerson in Bleak House was the most sickeningly sweet of the whole lot.

[CaptMurdock]

Steve McGarrett from Hawaii Five-Oh. After a while, you wish he'd take a day off and go play the ponies. And his hair! You just wanted to reach through the screen and muss it up!

[SurrenderDorothy]

The Hunger Games has Prim, Cinna, and, to some degree, Peeta.

[Push You Down]

Tara from "Buffy."

Did she have any flaw that was not meant to make her endearing?

[BigT]

Originally Posted by ftg

The term Mary Sue would probably be used, but it is a everchanging and vague term. See the linked article. (Warning: TV Tropes!)

Yeah, Mary Sue is usually stronger than that. They have to be the main focus. Side characters really can't be Mary Sues unless they essentially take over.

And, no, Mary Sue does not necessarily mean an author insert--the main thing is that they are perfect in a story-breaking way. And The Pollyanna refers to people who are always happy. They are far from perfect.

[NoClueBoy]

We should create a new term.

Call them a Beth or a Wesley Crusher. See if it catches on.

[SecretaryofEvil]

Originally Posted by Malleus, Incus, Stapes!

Him, too. But Chretien's Lancelot in Knight of the Cart is still the worse offender. Ugh.

P.S. everyone in Malory with their own sub-book (so far). I'm looking at you, Tristram.

Which is funny, because in real life Thomas Malory was quite the criminal. I believe the theory is that he wrote Le Morte d'Arthur while he was in jail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_..._Newbold_Revel

Of course, there is some debate about which Thomas Malory is actually the author, but it's my understanding he's the most likely candidate.

[don't ask]

Hannibal Lecter - epicure, music buff, art expert, doctor AND a serial killer to top it all off.

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by don't ask

Hannibal Lecter - epicure, music buff, art expert, doctor AND a serial killer to top it all off.

And with an extra finger on a hand and funny-colored eyes (they have blood-red flecks in them??) - he's special, we get it.

[Ulf the Unwashed]

Lord Peter Wimsey. It's been a long time since I read any of the books, in large part because he could do absolutely anything he set his mind to--brilliant detective, charming, wealthy (and managed his money well), professional-quality athlete (not that he would have taken MONEY for participating in sports, heavens, no)...didn't he develop the world's most effective ad campaign in one of the books, almost as a throwaway at the end?

Anyway, him.

[furryman]

Tohru Honda from Fruits Basket. No one could possibly be that sweet or patient.

Originally Posted by Lust4Life

I always found Hawkeye in MASH nausea inducing.

He was a brilliant surgeon, a rebel, cared about little children, cared about the Koreans, cared about the soldiers fighting the war, treated the enlisted people as equals, was fancied by all of the nurses;including army barmy Hotlips.

He was also brave, amusing..............

I'm sorry, I can't go on without a bucket.

Also George Clooneys character in some U.S. hospital soap where he played a paedeotrician and was forever agonising over the "children", was pretty vomit inducing, though IRL he's a really decent bloke.

After re-watching MASH I realized how annoying Hawkeye's constant snide remarks were, I don't think I could stand to be around him for more than five minutes. A pretty major character flaw if you ask me.

[hogarth]

Originally Posted by Finagle

I thought Esther Summerson in Bleak House was the most sickeningly sweet of the whole lot.

I forgot about Joe Gargery in Great Expectations, as well.

[Sister Vigilante]

Originally Posted by MrDibble

It's a Mary Sue if it's seen as an author insertion character, mostly, whereas Pollyana is more generic, I think. One is a subset of the other, almost.

The Vampire Lestat always struck me as this.

Anne Rice has said that Lestat is her husband, she is Louis, and Claudia is a niece of hers that died.

So, definitely some author insertion going on.

[TonySinclair]

Honor Harrington began as a gawky but competent space navy officer, but as the series went on, she became the most awesome human ever, able to toss around Marine sergeants in unarmed combat, able to shoot a professional duelist half a dozen times before he got a shot off, and the same thing with swords after a few months of training. Plus being the greatest tactical genius of her age, and so damned noble that her worst enemies strove for her approval. Plus being gorgeously beautiful.

But even that wasn't enough; it came out that she was literally superhuman, the result of a eugenics program.

And even THAT wasn't enough, as she now has all kinds of cybernetic body parts, an eye with telescopic, microscopic, and infrared vision, and an arm that is super strong and has a built-in gun.

Oh yeah, and she can read minds.