"East Asian Civilization'?

[Eastwest99]

What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

[Sicks Ate]

Yeah, this probably isn't a homework questions. Probably.

[TubaDiva]

Now this is two threads I've had to move -- please look at the forum listings more carefully.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/

[tomndebb]

Eastwest99, you have submitted 8, (so far), threads asking General Questions regarding historical China in multiple fora.

Knock it off.

We do not permit homework questions.

We do not permit spamming the board.

We really prefer that posters pay attention to the rules and the culture of the board.

Take a deep breath. Read over the descriptions of each forum to see what sort of post is appropriate to it.

Closed.

[tomndebb]

Looking over your other threads, I have chosen to re-open this one as a potentially legitimate General Question.

Please do not abuse our hospitality by submitting numerous homework questions.

This also looks like homework, but it might promote some discussion that others find interesting.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by Eastwest99

What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

What school textbook are we to reference when answering these questions?
Name and year published, please.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by tomndebb

Looking over your other threads, I have chosen to re-open this one as a potentially legitimate General Question.

Please do not abuse our hospitality by submitting numerous homework questions.

This also looks like homework, but it might promote some discussion that others find interesting.

Ok, but it's too broad for GQ. I'm booting it back to Great Debates.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[aruvqan]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

What school textbook are we to reference when answering these questions?
Name and year published, please.

Really, sounds like a question my Asian Studies teacher would have asked me ...

Though back to the OP:
What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"?

There is no single civilization covering east asia, though back in the day China, Korea and Vietnam were roughly ruled by a single rather dictatorial monarch. The Pax Mongolica sort of started dissolving in about 1300 and never really covered Thailand, and they never managed to subdue Japan at all. Although Japan was founded by mainlanders that ended up in the islands in 2 main waves, the Ainu as hunter gatherers, and later the Waijin or Yamato in about 600AD ended up basing their court on the Chinese court of the time. It gets very confusing. Though substantially this is a bogus question, between the pax mongolica and the various waves of tribes wandering around thanks to pressures of war, famine and burgeoning populations needing expansion room, people slosh around like waves in an aquarium.

What are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

You know how many different 'traditional values, beliefs and practices' there are? You know how many differing ethnic groups are available in southeast asia? Thousands. In Japan alone you have Ainu, Okinawan, Waijin, Ryukyuan, Burakumin, Emishi and Azumi [I am never sure if I should lump Ama in the same category, that is the oriental version of gypsy, a sea people, if you like - not genetically Rom.]

To answer that particular question, you do have to use the textbook assigned by your teacher as those are the answers he will accept.

Why yes, I love southeast Asia, how could you guess

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

To answer that particular question, you do have to use the textbook assigned by your teacher as those are the answers he will accept.

When the teacher asks for references, will the OP say,"A bunch of anonymous Dopers."?

[FinnAgain]

Who would like to tell the OP about the importance of ninja culture to the East Asian social milieu?

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Eastwest99

What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

Confucius say: Person who posts homework questions on the SDMB should not post the teacher's questions verbatim.

[PacifistPorcupine]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Confucius say: Person who posts homework questions on the SDMB should not post the teacher's questions verbatim.

Maybe paraphrasing is not a skill Eastwest99 possesses, hence the need for a source other than the assigned textbook to copy from.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Confucius say: Person who posts homework questions on the SDMB should not post the teacher's questions verbatim.

At least the OP stopped short of posting "If there isn't enough space, you may turn your paper over and continue on the back,"

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by aruvqan

There is no single civilization covering east asia, though back in the day China, Korea and Vietnam were roughly ruled by a single rather dictatorial monarch. The Pax Mongolica sort of started dissolving in about 1300 and never really covered Thailand, and they never managed to subdue Japan at all. Although Japan was founded by mainlanders that ended up in the islands in 2 main waves, the Ainu as hunter gatherers, and later the Waijin or Yamato in about 600AD ended up basing their court on the Chinese court of the time. It gets very confusing. Though substantially this is a bogus question, between the pax mongolica and the various waves of tribes wandering around thanks to pressures of war, famine and burgeoning populations needing expansion room, people slosh around like waves in an aquarium.

Wait, if the Yamato only came to Japan in 600AD, then why is Japanese a linguistic isolate*? 1400 years should be recent enough that we could easily see a common ancestor, especially since they likely would have remained geographically close.

Unless you mean the Yamato were already there, and only created the imperial court at around 600AD, which makes a lot more sense. (I only know enough about pre-Shogunate Japan to know I really don't know anything).

* Possible bizarre linguistic connection with the Native American Zuni tribe ignored.

[BrainGlutton]

Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

At least the OP stopped short of posting "If there isn't enough space, you may turn your paper over and continue on the back,"

Oh, and we need to know if points will be taken off for spelling and grammar mistakes.

[BrainGlutton]

OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho’ they come from the ends of the earth!

[YogSosoth]

Originally Posted by Eastwest99

What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

East Asian Civilization refers to the multiple Chinatowns dotting towns and cities on the American Eastern seaboard. Historically founded by traveling bands of circus folk attempting to appear exotic to foreign-hungry carnival goers in the 1720's, cities sprang up with the introduction of plow-pulling rhinoceroses following the destruction of the Hindenberg and the escape of the First Ones: pregnant rhino mothers that would become the evolutionary precursors to all modern rhinos in America.

Traditionally, these shanty towns valued juggling, bearded women, and a mark, which to them was as revered as the Sun God Markkus from which they took their names. It wasn't until Ryu Hayabusa traveled the East Coast from Miami to Portland, Maine and spread Ninjitsu among the acrobats that these relatively small enclaves were able to hold their own against the Orc Hordes. After renaming Asteroth with the more pleasant sounding "New York", the city that never sleeps rose from the ashes and became the dominant unicorn horn traders of the 19th century, cementing their influence in an emerging industrial revolution and creating most of the borders you see today.

[BrainGlutton]

Please don't lock this one, tomndebb, it's getting fun!

[KneadToKnow]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

At least the OP stopped short of posting "If there isn't enough space, you may turn your paper over and continue on the back,"

In case I've never just come right out and said it: I love you.

[buckgully]

Originally Posted by YogSosoth

Traditionally, these shanty towns valued juggling, bearded women, and a mark, which to them was as revered as the Sun God Markkus from which they took their names. It wasn't until Ryu Hayabusa traveled the East Coast from Miami to Portland, Maine and spread Ninjitsu among the acrobats that these relatively small enclaves were able to hold their own against the Orc Hordes. After renaming Asteroth with the more pleasant sounding "New York", the city that never sleeps rose from the ashes and became the dominant unicorn horn traders of the 19th century, cementing their influence in an emerging industrial revolution and creating most of the borders you see today.

Are you a student of DeViries? Because I notice you failed to mention the Cult of Maneki Neko and their influence after the theological crisis that followed the collapse of spiritualist movement around the turn of the 20th century. Helmut Schadelbecker took DeViries to task over this topic in his seminal work Der Fuß und die Schaufel which caused quite a stir at the time, but it was later revealed that DeViries was simply allergic to hard-fired ceramics and was thus unable to enter any of the establishments where he could have learned of the cult's connection to the production of large mechanized bipedal armored vehicles.

Later Schadelbecker and DeViries would settle their differences and present a paper outlining a unified theory on non-euclidiean transactional beverages, which they presented to the Royal Society in London in the form of a duet-sonnet, apparently clarified the subject greatly, however, all documentation regarding that paper has been lost as both men were overcome by hemorrhagic fever later that night.

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

I think a more accurate thread title for this would be "East Asian Civilization? (Need answer fast)".

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by YogSosoth

East Asian Civilization refers to the multiple Chinatowns dotting towns and cities on the American Eastern seaboard. Historically founded by traveling bands of circus folk attempting to appear exotic to foreign-hungry carnival goers in the 1720's, cities sprang up with the introduction of plow-pulling rhinoceroses following the destruction of the Hindenberg and the escape of the First Ones: pregnant rhino mothers that would become the evolutionary precursors to all modern rhinos in America.

Traditionally, these shanty towns valued juggling, bearded women, and a mark, which to them was as revered as the Sun God Markkus from which they took their names. It wasn't until Ryu Hayabusa traveled the East Coast from Miami to Portland, Maine and spread Ninjitsu among the acrobats that these relatively small enclaves were able to hold their own against the Orc Hordes. After renaming Asteroth with the more pleasant sounding "New York", the city that never sleeps rose from the ashes and became the dominant unicorn horn traders of the 19th century, cementing their influence in an emerging industrial revolution and creating most of the borders you see today.

Originally Posted by buckgully

Are you a student of DeViries? Because I notice you failed to mention the Cult of Maneki Neko and their influence after the theological crisis that followed the collapse of spiritualist movement around the turn of the 20th century. Helmut Schadelbecker took DeViries to task over this topic in his seminal work Der Fuß und die Schaufel which caused quite a stir at the time, but it was later revealed that DeViries was simply allergic to hard-fired ceramics and was thus unable to enter any of the establishments where he could have learned of the cult's connection to the production of large mechanized bipedal armored vehicles.

Later Schadelbecker and DeViries would settle their differences and present a paper outlining a unified theory on non-euclidiean transactional beverages, which they presented to the Royal Society in London in the form of a duet-sonnet, apparently clarified the subject greatly, however, all documentation regarding that paper has been lost as both men were overcome by hemorrhagic fever later that night.

You know those "bizarre answers my students have given to tests" threads we occasionally see in MPSIMS? Here's hoping that we see this again there...

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

When the teacher asks for references, will the OP say,"A bunch of anonymous Dopers."?

We're "pseudonymous Dopers". Or should I say "pedantic"?

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by The Man With The Golden Gun

I think a more accurate thread title for this would be "East Asian Civilization? (Need answer fast)".

Well, as Gandhi said, when asked what he thought of Western Civilization, "It is far too soon to tell."

[Czarcasm]

I don't think the OP is going to come back.

Ever.

[KneadToKnow]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Well, as Gandhi said, when asked what he thought of Western Civilization, "It is far too soon to tell."

Who was it who said he thought it would be a good idea?

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Eastwest99

what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century?

I really depends on the map settings so a definite answer is difficult to ascertain, but the most common way is rushing the Cultural victory too hard, too soon without paying enough attention to widening army tech gaps & plummeting diplomacy ratings.

Hope this helps.

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

I don't think the OP is going to come back.

Ever.

Must be finals week.

[Alan Smithee]

Originally Posted by KneadToKnow

Who was it who said he thought it would be a good idea?

Easy! That was LaPlace when Napoleon asked him about God.

[cckerberos]

Originally Posted by Jragon

Wait, if the Yamato only came to Japan in 600AD, then why is Japanese a linguistic isolate*? 1400 years should be recent enough that we could easily see a common ancestor, especially since they likely would have remained geographically close.

Unless you mean the Yamato were already there, and only created the imperial court at around 600AD, which makes a lot more sense. (I only know enough about pre-Shogunate Japan to know I really don't know anything).

* Possible bizarre linguistic connection with the Native American Zuni tribe ignored.

The Yayoi people (which is probably what he meant to say) displaced the then-dominant Jomon people (of whom the Ainu are likely distant descendants) in 300 BC.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Jragon

Wait, if the Yamato only came to Japan in 600AD, then why is Japanese a linguistic isolate*? 1400 years should be recent enough that we could easily see a common ancestor, especially since they likely would have remained geographically close.

Unless you mean the Yamato were already there, and only created the imperial court at around 600AD, which makes a lot more sense. (I only know enough about pre-Shogunate Japan to know I really don't know anything).

* Possible bizarre linguistic connection with the Native American Zuni tribe ignored.

Isn't there a proven connection to Korean?

[Evil Captor]

Cmon let's not be so hard on the kid. The answer is:

East Asian civilization is mostly located in East Asia, since it's easier for the West Asians to commute that way. The countries most responsible for East Asian civilization are Japan, China, Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Thaland and sometimes Malaysia, when they weren't under water.

Many great inventions have come from East Asia: they invented gunpowder, earthquakes and tentacle porn, though their crowning achievement is generally regarded to be Jack Lord's hair in Hawaii Five-O. Despite these wonderful inventions, they were at a disadvantage to the West because they did not invent marketing.

In summary, the outlook is bright for East Asia, as it is slated to become a ride at the Universal Studios theme park in Orlando, Florida, USA, in Fall 2014. You can find out more about East Asia by watching reruns of Hawaii Five-O.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by cckerberos

The Yayoi people (which is probably what he meant to say) displaced the then-dominant Jomon people (of whom the Ainu are likely distant descendants) in 300 BC.

The Yaoi people? That explains the negative population growth!

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

Isn't there a proven connection to Korean?

As far as I know -- and mind you, I heard this from an ABD in East Asian (focusing on Sino-Tibetan) Linguistics -- Korean and Japanese have surface similarities, but deep linguistic analysis reveals that they're both linguistic isolates. In other words, the Chinese (Sino-Tibetan) Family, Korean Family, and Japanese Family are totally unrelated linguistically (though obviously vocabulary mixes a lot).

Edit: Though it has been proposed that Japanese is either ultimately related to Korean or Altaic, but it's far from proven.

[Jragon]

And by Japanese I meant Japonic, of course.

[John Mace]

Why is East Asia located west of California? Shouldn't it be West Asia? Countries Like Turkey and Iran could be referred to as Even More West Asia.

This whole "East Asia" nomenclature is a very slanted view of things.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Why is East Asia located west of California? Shouldn't it be West Asia? Countries Like Turkey and Iran could be referred to as Even More West Asia.

This whole "East Asia" nomenclature is a very slanted view of things.

For better or worse, many of the descriptives we use are Euro-centric... which in some respects is the least of our ethno-geographical sins.
That being said, it's just a convention of language and besides Japan, Korea and China do lie on the eastern side of the Asian landmass, so unlike e.g. "the Orient" it's actually a valid, neutral term.
Don't start reading altogether too much into that sort of thing anyway, down that road madness lies. And count yourself lucky your language isn't genderized .

[FinnAgain]

Whoooooosh

[Kobal2]

... Crap.
Well, y'all still get a funny bit, so I'm going to make like a cat and pretend that's exactly what I was going for the whole time.

[Whack-a-Mole]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

I don't think the OP is going to come back.

Ever.

Agreed.

If the OP had a clue he (she?) had a great source here to answer homework questions and probably learn something. A little effort at obscuring the homework question would have provided them a wealth of material for class.

I would have killed to have the SDMB as a resource when I was in school. I have no doubt I could pose questions here when I was 16 or older to get the grown-ups talking and help write my paper for me.

The ham handed approach the OP has taken to this and other threads makes me worry for our future. It would be simple to use the SDMB as a resource for getting answers to all this and more.

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

Originally Posted by Eastwest99

What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

East Asian civilization is basically all the Chinese influenced countries in Asia (thus ruling out India and Indonesia). Their main handicap in falling behind the West were due to cultural reasons such as the lack of competition among the countries due to the domination of China in the region.

[al27052]

I might say that isolation, arrogance, corruption, and excessive cultural/governmental baggage put those civilizations, especially China, at a disadvantage.

Japan isn't really behind, and neither is South Korea. Vietnam is practically China anyway, culturally and linguistically. Japan was behind, but I'd say their lesser isolation and cultural baggage helped them catch up more quickly than China.

China used to accomplish a lot, relatively speaking, but their government and culture became so structured, Byzantine, and unwieldy (I'd say through simple age and isolation) that they simply couldn't change fast enough to complete. They're catching up now, but it's still very true than China and Japan can't really innovate in any real way.

South Korea doesn't have this problem. I think this is partially due to its rejection of Chinese culture and influence, and also partially its embracing of Western attitudes and culture. However, I could be totally wrong about the reasons for South Korea's stunning track record re: innovations. The track record is there, either way.

[smiling bandit]

Originally Posted by Jragon

As far as I know -- and mind you, I heard this from an ABD in East Asian (focusing on Sino-Tibetan) Linguistics -- Korean and Japanese have surface similarities, but deep linguistic analysis reveals that they're both linguistic isolates.

Pretty much the only available historical explanation for the Yayoi is that they were horse-borne warriors who arrived in Japan from Korea, and ethnically they are the closest known relatives of modern-day Japanese, so there's presumably some relationship.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by smiling bandit

Pretty much the only available historical explanation for the Yayoi is that they were horse-borne warriors who arrived in Japan from Korea, and ethnically they are the closest known relatives of modern-day Japanese, so there's presumably some relationship.

And presumably a strong-swimming breed of horses, too.

[Alan Smithee]

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee

Easy! That was LaPlace when Napoleon asked him about God.

I'm mighty disappointed in you people that not a single one of you asked who said "I have no need of that hypothesis."

(The answer, of course, is Galileo, when he recanted.)

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Eastwest99

What is meant by "East Asian Civilization"? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes.

If I might get serious for a moment, it's a real bad idea to ask for homework help on this board. Not just because it makes some people hostile, as you've seen. But also because we're not in a position to help you with your classroom assignments.

For example, you posted, "That which accounts for the unprecedented success of the Qing Dynasty also explains its demise." Explain? Now a few of us offered some ideas but they were just guesses. We weren't there in your class (and maybe you weren't there in your class either). We don't know your instructor and what he or she had to say on this subject. Anything you get from us is probably going to be completely off topic and will just show your instructor you didn't learn anything in class.

My suggestion is that if you want to skate through your classes, you need to do a better job at it. Start borrowing notes from the other students rather than try to get help on a message board.

Or maybe you could just go to class, pay attention, and take notes.

[YogSosoth]

Originally Posted by smiling bandit

Pretty much the only available historical explanation for the Yayoi is that they were horse-borne warriors who arrived in Japan from Korea, and ethnically they are the closest known relatives of modern-day Japanese, so there's presumably some relationship.

Aren't those called Centaurs? Don't confuse the lad!

[punch line loser]

I'd really like to know the format that the answer to this question is supposed to be in. Also, if any professor seriously asks for a definition of "East Asian Culture," then it probably means they're a Eurocentric ignoramus.

To be fair, the answer this asshole is probably looking for must be something like, "Confucian conservatism was holding them back until the fabulous white man made with the civilization!"

Western exceptionalism for the win!

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

If I might get serious for a moment, it's a real bad idea to ask for homework help on this board. Not just because it makes some people hostile, as you've seen.

Especially toward the members who keep trying to give serious answers.

Y'see, Eastwest99 and any other students who might want help with homework, this board is made up of one half class clowns, one half smartest kids in the class, and one half dumb schlubs like you and me. The fractions don't work because there's an awful lot of people who were in both the first and second groups.

ETA: Unless you were never taught fractions, in which case they add up just fine.