The case of atheist leader Ellenbeth Wachs: opinions? Info?

[Bamboo Boy]

I'm not sure this qualifies as "mundane", but I didn't know where else to post this.

I'm just wondering about this case- what really went down.The charges seem pretty trumped up. Clearly there's spin going on all over the place. First I read this:

ELLEN WACHS:

Chucked out of the Florida Atheists for being a drunk and accused in court of making loud sexual noises to children in the street. She admitted guilt on a few accounts of improper behaviour, some misappropriation of funds was on top of the whole grubby Wachs embarrassing spectacle.

She was a lush and it was inappropriate for her to head the so called sos group. A group which through Wach's unprofessional drunken manner failed to ever be recognized by the authorities as a viable alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous.

It appeared on my FB wall, and is from this group:

http://www.facebook.com/Antitheists

Then I read this:

http://www.examiner.com/article/upda...hs-and-kieffer

and then this:

http://www.theledger.com/article/201...9629?p=1&tc=pg

She (apparently it's really her, I guess, I don't know) chimes in in the comments on the last link and gets support all around from people who seem to know her personally. Not sure what to make of it all. The support does seems pretty unanimous, though.

Anyone have anymore inside (or otherwise) information about this? I have never even heard of this person before that quip appeared on my wall. Don't have a very big dog in this fight, so maybe it IS MPSIMS after all.

Thanks in advance,

BB

[MsRobyn]

Based on a couple of articles from more legitimate news sources, it sounds like Ms. Wachs has behavioral problems and that she has a problem getting along with other people, such as her neighbors. Based on the articles, she does seem pretty abrasive.

That being said, some of the charges filed against her are he-said-she-said stuff, or, in the case of using the term "Esquire", relatively trivial. Perhaps the sheriff was targeting her for her lawsuits, or perhaps not. Those kinds of claims are difficult to prove, and based on her overall behavior, are hard to take seriously.

Finally, the courts have consistently held that Alcoholics Anonymous can't be the only option for people who are ordered to attend a self-help program. It is, however, legal for courts and parole/probation officers to require some program, including SOS, as a condition for parole, driving privileges, or what-have-you. So that part of your post is moot.

[Mr. Miskatonic]

She may not be a nice person, but it sounds like a lot of Bullshit from the Sheriff.

Retired lawyers can continue to use 'esquire' after their names. Retiring from medicine doesn't mean you go from Dr. to Mr.

The felony sex charge seems way over the top charge for what was described, and whoever allowed the sheriff to search her place after that needs more disbarring more than she does.

I read the FB linked comments from the OP, and while I don't particularly care for the woman I agree with her supporters more than her detractors - who seems to pile a load of strawman arguments about atheists, and harping on a lot of the letter of the law.

[EllenBeth]

So, care to go the source for the facts?
You are basing I am not a nice person on what premise? The neighbor's account? You do realize that he was the one that wanted me in jail?

I was not thrown out of Atheists of Florida for being a drunk. I didn't admit guilt to any crime. To the contrary, the charges were dismissed. The man that runs that group has a grudge against me because he and I got into a debate about the usefulness of Alcoholics Anonymous and he got very defensive. I have been sober for 27 years. Where he is getting this nonsense about my "drunken" behavior is ridiculous. Even people here that dont like me wouldn't say that because it is an unsupportable allegation. He has been holding quite the grudge obviously. He cannot defame me this terribly though. I will NOT be a nice person.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

I will NOT be a nice person.

You'll fit right in here then....

[Mr. Miskatonic]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

So, care to go the source for the facts?
You are basing I am not a nice person on what premise?

Welcome to the forum.

I did say you *may* not be a nice person. It doesn't really matter what my opinion of you is. More important is that you seem to have been handed a rather raw deal... Can you explain on what basis the sheriff or judge used to get warrant to search your home because of some noises? That is quite a disconnect to me.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

I was not thrown out of Atheists of Florida for being a drunk.

According to one link, you were kicked out "for seriously obstructing the organization’s business, misappropriating the organization’s name, misappropriating the organization’s funds, and acting in a way that discredits the organization."

I didn't admit guilt to any crime. To the contrary, the charges were dismissed.

That doesn't seem to be exactly correct -

Wachs pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge of possessing drug paraphernalia and prosecutors dropped a misdemeanor charge of possessing marijuana.

Polk County Judge Barry Bennett agreed to withhold a formal finding of guilt, meaning Wachs has not been convicted of any crime. Wachs also had to pay about $820 in fines, court costs and Sheriff's Office investigative costs.

I have been sober for 27 years.

If you have been sober for 27 years, why did you have marijuana in your safe?

Regards,
Shodan

[EllenBeth]

You are mixing up different situations.
The failed coup at the organization had nothing to do with the criminal case. I have a pending defamation case against the former board members for throwing those ridiculous paste and cut nonsense charges at me.

As for the marijuana charge, that was also dismissed. If you read carefully, I plead no contest to a paraphernalia charge. I did so because it was the easiest way to end this with no formal finding of guilt.

The marijuana was not mine. But that is irrelevant to being sober.

[EllenBeth]

As for the basis of the warrant that was used to search my house, You can read the warrant yourself.

http://www.polklawblog.com/wp-conten...rrant-docs.pdf

[Bricker]

Well, the facts as laid out in the warrant certainly support a finding of probable cause to believe that the unauthorized practice of law was being committed.

I take it, however, that those charges were not pursued following the search and seizure executed at the residence?

Also: assuming the facts related in the affidavit concerning the meeting with council officials were substantially correct, can you explain why their invocation practice is not protected under Marsh v. Chambers?

[Rigamarole]

"Making loud sexual noises to children in the street"? How, and what would that even sound like? I hadn't heard of this case, but now I'm quite curious about it.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Playing a bass with a wah-wah pedal, maybe?

[twickster]

Originally Posted by Rigamarole

"Making loud sexual noises to children in the street"? How, and what would that even sound like? I hadn't heard of this case, but now I'm quite curious about it.

Reenacting the "When Harry Met Sally" deli scene?

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

The marijuana was not mine. But that is irrelevant to being sober.

You were holding it for a friend, in a safe?

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by Nars Glinley

You were holding it for a friend, in a safe?

"I learned it by watching YOU!"

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

"I learned it by watching YOU!"

"At least he's using good beans."

[Chimera]

You know, up until 9 years ago, I had been a pretty serious pothead for 25 years.

Not once in that entire time had I ever encountered a non-user holding pot for someone else.

But regardless of that, if you had it, it's yours. Just as if you had stolen goods in your house. You're the one in possession. "I'm just hanging onto that stereo for a friend" doesn't count for jack in court. The crime isn't OWNERSHIP. It's POSSESSION.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Chimera

You know, up until 9 years ago, I had been a pretty serious pothead for 25 years.

Not once in that entire time had I ever encountered a non-user holding pot for someone else.

On the other hand, I knew several people in high school who got caught with pot, and all of them told their parents they were holding it for someone else.

Not sure whether any of the parents actually believed it.

[elbows]

Why Florida?

Why is it always Florida?

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

On the other hand, I knew several people in high school who got caught with pot, and all of them told their parents they were holding it for someone else.

Oh of course. It's the cry of the guilty child.

"It wasn't me! I swear!"

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

As for the marijuana charge, that was also dismissed. If you read carefully, I plead no contest to a paraphernalia charge. I did so because it was the easiest way to end this with no formal finding of guilt.

You claimed that "the charges", with no qualification, were dismissed. This is not strictly true - you pleaded no contest, which is not the same thing as having the charges dismissed.

The marijuana was not mine. But that is irrelevant to being sober.

As Chimera points out, you were, in fact, in possession of the stuff.

And most people define "being sober" as refraining from the recreational use of substances such as marijuana as well as not drinking alcohol. YMMV.

Regards,
Shodan

[Nars Glinley]

Originally Posted by Chimera

You know, up until 9 years ago, I had been a pretty serious pothead for 25 years.

Not once in that entire time had I ever encountered a non-user holding pot for someone else.

That's because it's never happened in the history of ever.

[elbows]

Almost always, being a successful leader, of any organization requires a slightly modified attitude than described as , 'I will NOT be a nice person.'

In my experience people only self describe in the most generous terms. So when someone says, 'Oh I can get a little testy!', they are trying to let you know they are a right asshole sometimes.

That said, "I will NOT be a nice person." kind of speaks volumes for me!

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Nars Glinley

That's because it's never happened in the history of ever.

In this case, your sarcasm might accidentally be sincere.

[grude]

Originally Posted by Rigamarole

"Making loud sexual noises to children in the street"? How, and what would that even sound like? I hadn't heard of this case, but now I'm quite curious about it.

From one of the articles one of her neighbors called police SIX MONTHS after they claimed one of their children heard "sexual noises" coming from inside her house.

I don't know how anyone could support that arrest, unless the media is grossly misreporting on this.

Ms. Wachs was arrested a second time, in May, for moaning repeatedly in a sexual manner from an open window in her house, saying, “Oh, John,” in a crescendo, as a ploy to stop neighbors, including a young boy, from playing basketball. The moans followed a dispute with the neighbor. The sheriff’s office arrested her on a felony sex charge. The police searched her house and took away a safe, among other things.

Another article mentioned the detail that the arrest and complaint came six months after the alleged moaning.

[Vinyl Turnip]

How old was the boy, and did his name happen to be "John"?

Nevertheless, I agree that so far it sounds like trumped-up horseshit, whether or not Ms. Wachs was in fact the owner of the whopping two grams of devil's weed.

[EllenBeth]

seems you all have your answers and don't need the actual facts

Take care.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Chimera

You know, up until 9 years ago, I had been a pretty serious pothead for 25 years.

Not once in that entire time had I ever encountered a non-user holding pot for someone else.

I've known a couple people who did that. Usually it was someone whose SO smoked, and they let the SO keep a small stash at their place, though.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

seems you all have your answers and don't need the actual facts

Take care.

So, that settled, would you care to go out sometime?

[EllenBeth]

Originally Posted by tapu

So, that settled, would you care to go out sometime?

Sure, you bringing the pot?

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

Sure, you bringing the pot?

See? I love you already, not necessarily for the pot reference, but because you've been able to keep your sense of humor through all of this.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

Sure, you bringing the pot?

You haven't got a prayer.....

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

You haven't got a prayer.....

i see what you did there.

[EllenBeth]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

You haven't got a prayer.....

All those telling me they were praying for me were lying?

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

All those telling me they were praying for me were lying?

Or stoned....

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miskatonic

Retired lawyers can continue to use 'esquire' after their names. Retiring from medicine doesn't mean you go from Dr. to Mr.

Anyone can use esq. after his or her name, lawyer or not, retired or not. Unlike Dr., Esq. is not a controlled title, is granted by no authority, and has no legal meaning But if you intentionally use it in a manner to mislead those seeking legal counsel to believe that you are a qualified and licensed lawyer, you may run afoul of the law. The same is true of "Dr." and medicine.

[Critical1]

Originally Posted by Nars Glinley

That's because it's never happened in the history of ever.

I have a friend who holds pot for 2 of his married friends, so it has happened at least twice.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by Critical1

I have a friend who holds pot for 2 of his married friends, so it has happened at least twice.

Does the friend smoke as well, or are they straight but willing to help out a buddy?

(It would make a LOT more sense to me if a fellow "head" was willing to stash some savage roscoe for a smoking partner than if someone who never touched the stuff was the one doing the holding)

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

(It would make a LOT more sense to me if a fellow "head" was willing to stash some savage roscoe

::::hijack:::: I heard a report on medicinal marijuana in Israel on NPR today. They introduced their guest, "head doctor" of a hospital in Israel...I laughed out loud for a couple seconds.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

::::hijack:::: I heard a report on medicinal marijuana in Israel on NPR today. They introduced their guest, "head doctor" of a hospital in Israel...I laughed out loud for a couple seconds.

I recently read that there is a company in Israel that has bred a marijuana strain that contains no THC, so smokers don't get high, but they still get the anti-nausea effects often associated with cannabis usage.

[tapu]

Ever notice how, if someone hears something on NPR, they don't say, "Oh, hey, I heard on the radio the other day..." They always say, "I heard on NPR the other day...."

:hijack-hijack:

[tapu]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

Sure, you bringing the pot?

I'm bringing the know-how. Sister.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

I recently read that there is a company in Israel that has bred a marijuana strain that contains no THC, so smokers don't get high, but they still get the anti-nausea effects often associated with cannabis usage.

Okay, now they should be wiped off the map.

[SciFiSam]

I can kinda believe the holding pot thing, because it'd be easy to be a former pot smoker with good contacts and still have friends who toke and you don't think it's bad per se, just not good for you.

And a lot of people say they're sober because they're no longer drinking alcohol. They're not including other drugs. Took me a while to realise that, but it happens.

Originally Posted by grude

From one of the articles one of her neighbors called police SIX MONTHS after they claimed one of their children heard "sexual noises" coming from inside her house.

I don't know how anyone could support that arrest, unless the media is grossly misreporting on this.



Another article mentioned the detail that the arrest and complaint came six months after the alleged moaning.

That must be misreported, since it'd be pretty hard (heh) to prosecute someone for making sex noises in their own home.

But the offender herself is here - hey! What's that about?

[tapu]

Anyone who "holds" pot for someone else is not very savvy, legally.

[EllenBeth]

Originally Posted by SciFiSam

That must be misreported, since it'd be pretty hard (heh) to prosecute someone for making sex noises in their own home.

But the offender herself is here - hey! What's that about?

Yeah, it is misreported. It wasn't six months later. It was 48 days later they arrested me after the alleged noise. And yes, the curious thing is, there were two of us making sex noises (gasp!) but the one that was going after the sheriff was the one arrested. Hmmm...

[EllenBeth]

Originally Posted by tapu

I'm bringing the know-how. Sister.

I know how. Sister. It got me arrested.

[grude]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

Yeah, it is misreported. It wasn't six months later. It was 48 days later they arrested me after the alleged noise. And yes, the curious thing is, there were two of us making sex noises (gasp!) but the one that was going after the sheriff was the one arrested. Hmmm...

Just curious but how did the judge respond to this charge? It seems ridiculous to everyone reading about it online.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by EllenBeth

I know how. Sister. It got me arrested.

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of something consensual....

[EllenBeth]

Originally Posted by grude

Just curious but how did the judge respond to this charge? It seems ridiculous to everyone reading about it online.

Ridiculous to everyone but those in Imperial Polk County. This county is well known for being in a time-warp. The judges here do as they are told by the voters who are evangelicals.