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  #1  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:16 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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Just got laid off.

Anyone need a good IT guy?
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:17 AM
tdn tdn is offline
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I'm sorry to hear that.

May you find work soon. Being that you're a good IT guy, that should happen.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:18 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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This was a dream job.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:31 AM
tdn tdn is offline
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Then I'm really sorry to hear it.

But after 15 months of being laid off, I got the best job I've ever had. Highest paying, too. (That was 10 years ago.)
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:36 AM
Crotalus Crotalus is online now
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Anyone need a good IT guy?
I'm very sorry you got laid off. "A good IT guy" is kind of vague. What do you know how to do?
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:11 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Originally Posted by Crotalus View Post
I'm very sorry you got laid off. "A good IT guy" is kind of vague. What do you know how to do?
Once I get my resume updated, I can PM it to you if your'e interested.

I should add that, if at all possible, I need something in the Philly area, or possibly telecommuting. I have family obligations and issues.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:13 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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I can do programming, website programming and support, customer support. I can get a list together from my resume and post it.
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:41 PM
Missy2U Missy2U is offline
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Would you be at all interested in temp work? It's usually long term - and I work for one of the biggest IT placement firms around. They have a Philly location. I can PM you the details if you'd like.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Khadaji Khadaji is offline
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I'm sorry t hear your news - but at least you're in a profession that should allow you to find a position pretty quickly. Good luck.
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:04 PM
GrandWino GrandWino is online now
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Sorry to hear this.

I'm sure you're being overwhelmed with advice both online and in real life, but be sure to file for unemployment as soon as humanly possible. They usually have some bit of waiting period before you can start getting benefits and you don't want to waste a minute.
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  #11  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:10 PM
tdn tdn is offline
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And get your resume online. I don't know what the good sites are these days, but 10 years ago Monster was pretty useless. Once I posted on Dice, offers started rolling in.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:17 PM
Reepicheep Reepicheep is offline
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Sorry to hear that. I hope you find a much better dream job soon.
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:26 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Originally Posted by Missy2U View Post
Would you be at all interested in temp work? It's usually long term - and I work for one of the biggest IT placement firms around. They have a Philly location. I can PM you the details if you'd like.
Absolutely. I just updated my resume. I'll PM you.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:34 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Okay, here's the resume description for my current (for 2 more weeks) position. This is just my last position. I have a lot of years of other experience, mostly programming. I can send a resume to anyone who's serious but I obviously don't want to post the whole thing here publicly.

07/2010 to present
Website Maintenance using PHP and MySQL.

Supported 270 users at locations nationwide. This included:

Configuring and maintaining hundreds of laptop, desktop, and pad computers, including inventory, shipping, and repairs; Including installing Kaspersky Antivirus software, MozyPro backup software, and configuring Outlook for company email. Fixing various computer problems, both in the corporate office and at other locations. For other locations I used either GoToAssist or CoPilot to access the computers remotely.

Training users in the use of computers and software, both in person and remotely.

Maintaining and supporting conference room computers and displays for various uses such as presentations, Webinars, and Skype conferences.

Supporting company cellphones, including BlackBerrys, iPhones, and Samsung Androids. This included ordering phones, interfacing with Verizon, configuring phones for company email, and handling requests for repairs and replacements.

Creating and maintaining company email accounts.

Creating and maintaining SharePoint accounts.

Configuring and Maintaining Mitel 5324 and 5340 IP phones.

Simple maintence of various printers, including HP LaserJet P2035, XEROX ColorQube 9201, and Ricoh Aficio MP C4500.

Maintaining network and internet connections and investigating and remedying internet outages.

Anything else around the office involving computers or telephones.
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:42 PM
Crotalus Crotalus is online now
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My company also has a Philly location. PM me too. I'll see there's a possibility there for you.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2012, 02:01 PM
Raza Raza is offline
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My company has a Philly-area branch, and we're currently looking for a .NET developer for Web-based products. If you think it is a good fit, PM me.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2012, 03:32 PM
Lanzy Lanzy is offline
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Sorry to hear it but good IT guys are laid off all over.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:09 AM
DrumBum DrumBum is offline
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Okay, here's the resume description for my current (for 2 more weeks) position. This is just my last position. I have a lot of years of other experience, mostly programming. I can send a resume to anyone who's serious but I obviously don't want to post the whole thing here publicly.

07/2010 to present
Website Maintenance using PHP and MySQL.

Supported 270 users at locations nationwide. This included:

Configuring and maintaining hundreds of laptop, desktop, and pad computers, including inventory, shipping, and repairs; Including installing Kaspersky Antivirus software, MozyPro backup software, and configuring Outlook for company email. Fixing various computer problems, both in the corporate office and at other locations. For other locations I used either GoToAssist or CoPilot to access the computers remotely.

Training users in the use of computers and software, both in person and remotely.

Maintaining and supporting conference room computers and displays for various uses such as presentations, Webinars, and Skype conferences.

Supporting company cellphones, including BlackBerrys, iPhones, and Samsung Androids. This included ordering phones, interfacing with Verizon, configuring phones for company email, and handling requests for repairs and replacements.

Creating and maintaining company email accounts.

Creating and maintaining SharePoint accounts.

Configuring and Maintaining Mitel 5324 and 5340 IP phones.

Simple maintence of various printers, including HP LaserJet P2035, XEROX ColorQube 9201, and Ricoh Aficio MP C4500.

Maintaining network and internet connections and investigating and remedying internet outages.

Anything else around the office involving computers or telephones.

I am glad we have IT people around since I haven't a clue what 90% of this is.

Good luck on the job search.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2012, 09:03 AM
bump bump is offline
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I am glad we have IT people around since I haven't a clue what 90% of this is.

Good luck on the job search.
That's a pretty standard pc support /general IT guy type position. I'd think that if that's what you do or want to do, I'd put more about setting up / interacting with AD domains, etc... than about working on the actual PCs themselves.

Seriously though; the programming side of your resume is almost certainly going to be more lucrative than this PC support stuff. I'd figure out how to sex that up and put it out front and center, unless your experience is in old and obscure languages and/or methodologies.
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2012, 09:28 AM
bup bup is offline
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davidm -

Feel free to PM me for email, and send me a resume.

I'm in Chicago, but I know a couple of people in Philadelphia.

And all it costs you is one email.
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2012, 09:31 AM
Enright3 Enright3 is offline
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And get your resume online. I don't know what the good sites are these days, but 10 years ago Monster was pretty useless. Once I posted on Dice, offers started rolling in.
I'm not sure where my resume exists in cyberspace; but I still (at least 1 a week) get calls from recruiters to offer me Java opportunities. I haven't been a Java programmer in 10 years. I say that as a reply to this post because I used both Monster and Dice way back then.

I guess my point is; if I'm getting calls on a 10 year old resume; there must be jobs out there if you have the right skills. Good Luck.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2012, 09:52 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's a pretty standard pc support /general IT guy type position. I'd think that if that's what you do or want to do, I'd put more about setting up / interacting with AD domains, etc... than about working on the actual PCs themselves.

Seriously though; the programming side of your resume is almost certainly going to be more lucrative than this PC support stuff. I'd figure out how to sex that up and put it out front and center, unless your experience is in old and obscure languages and/or methodologies.
Part of my problem is that I'm not really up to date on the latest languages and methodologies.

Oddly enough, my current position, though it's light on programming, is the most lucrative position I've had in my career; possibly because of the amount of responsibility involved. I'm not at all sure that I'll be able to get the same amount elsewhere.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:00 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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This morning I received a call from a gentleman who saw my resume on Dice. I have a phone interview at 10:30 tomorrow for a programmer / data analyst position that's a lot nearer to home than my current job.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:12 AM
Antigen Antigen is offline
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
This morning I received a call from a gentleman who saw my resume on Dice. I have a phone interview at 10:30 tomorrow for a programmer / data analyst position that's a lot nearer to home than my current job.
Good luck! Hopefully you'll roll straight from one job into the next with no worries.
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  #25  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:14 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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Good luck! Hopefully you'll roll straight from one job into the next with no worries.
It would be great to finish here on the 30th and start there on the 3rd with my month's severance in the bank.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:36 AM
Morgyn Morgyn is offline
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I hope the job interview goes well for you. Meantime, if you're not on it already, get yourself onto LinkedIn. I got my current job because the HR person found me with a search on that site. (The weird thing? I was already onsite as a contractor, and had been for about 3 or so weeks.)
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:00 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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Good luck davidm. Time to count your blessings that you work in IT. I think there should be plenty of opportunities in the Philadelphia area. Although competition is intense these days you are in a much better position than people being laid off in other industries.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2012, 08:22 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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I spent this afternoon training my replacement, with more to come.

Seriously? I know this job. I know this job well enough to train somebody else. So why is there somebody else?
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2012, 12:56 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Had a phone interview this morning for a programmer / analyst position. I did well enough that he emailed me a test that I have till Wednesday to complete.

Looking at it, it's been a few years since I've done that kind of stuff and my mind is drawing a blank. Too much anger and exhaustion to be able to think straight, I guess.
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:47 PM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Looking at it, it's been a few years since I've done that kind of stuff and my mind is drawing a blank. Too much anger and exhaustion to be able to think straight, I guess.
Take the day off. Tomorrow, too. Tackle the test on Friday.
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  #31  
Old 11-21-2012, 05:08 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Take the day off. Tomorrow, too. Tackle the test on Friday.
It's not even complex. Just some simple SQL exercises, but all I can do is stare at it.

Tomorrow is family time. I have off Friday, so that'll be a good time.
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  #32  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:58 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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I put my resume, with personal info removed, on Craigslist, which is how I got my last two jobs. So far I've received two responses from women asking me to clean their apartment.
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  #33  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:10 PM
StGermain StGermain is offline
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davidm - Will you come reroof my house? Or sand and refinish my floors?

StG
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  #34  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:19 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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I don't think you'd like the roofing job.
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  #35  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:28 PM
Greg Charles Greg Charles is offline
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I spent this afternoon training my replacement, with more to come.

Seriously? I know this job. I know this job well enough to train somebody else. So why is there somebody else?
Did they tell you why you are being laid off. The usual reason is reduction in workforce for economic reasons, but they can't use that if they have already brought in a replacement. It seems to me they are on dangerous ground, legally, but I'm not a lawyer.

Congrats on your interview! SQL is pretty straightforward, and there are lots of good online references to help you, so don't panic!
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  #36  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:31 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Oh, I'm familiar with SQL. I was still shell shocked (and am somewhat so still) and by brain just wouldn't grasp it. When I looked at it the day after Thanksgiving it made a lot more sense. Not that they were easy problems. For one of them the solution involved the creation of temp tables.

The funny thing was, I first did it in Access and was able to do it successfully with nested queries. When I moved the Query to SQL Server (with some necessary minor syntax changes) the parser would not accept it. I don't recall the exact problem but I think it involved Count not being allowing in subqueries. So my only choice was to replace the nested queries with temp tables, which worked. I was a little surprised that Access was more flexible and forgiving than SQL Server. Maybe it's related to the size of the tables that are expected to be used in one versus the other.

As far as why I'm being laid off, technically, it's because the IT consulting firm I was working for lost their contract with the company, so it could be called "lack of work". But there was no reason that the company couldn't at least make me an offer to work for them directly. My actual employer told me that it was because the company I was working at wanted to "go in a different direction".

That didn't seem like much of an explanation to me since the new guy is going to be doing the same job as me and seems to have pretty much the same skill set except that he doesn't have two years at this particular company which is worth a lot.

I hope it wasn't something stupid like my employer using a non-compete clause to try to get a payment from them in exchange for releasing me from it.

I don't know that they're doing anything illegal, especially since I'm in a right to work state and my contract specifically stated that it was no guarantee of employment.

Last edited by davidm; 11-26-2012 at 09:32 PM..
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  #37  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:56 PM
aaelghat aaelghat is offline
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If the company you were working at (not the IT Consulting company that laid you off - the one they were contracting with) is small enough, maybe you can talk to the HR Director and ask her why they didn't make you an offer.

Just phrase it as you really enjoyed working there, and if the new guy doesn't work out or quits, you'd be open to working there again, and if they have a need in the future your contact information is _______.

I'm guessing that the IT consulting company did have a non-compete clause, and/or the direction the company they were contracting with was to self-staff so they didn't have to pay a premium to the consulting company.

Having said all that, your objective would be to leave the door open with them but focus on getting your next job.

You may also want to look at elance.com if you wanted to try and get some supplemental income while searching for a job.
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  #38  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:28 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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I can't get a clear answer from anyone as to why. The HR woman, who I've always gotten along with very well (she's always screwing up her computer), seems closed-mouthed and angry about the whole thing.

If it is the non-compete thing then I wonder if there could be a legal thing here. The company consists of one man and he recently moved to the west coast, which apparently is why he lost the contract (although I'm not positive about that) so it could be argued that I'm not in competition with his business and his actions have caused me a material loss. But I'm not a lawyer.
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  #39  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:33 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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In any case I just sent off the last of the test exercises to my potential new employer. I'm a little nervous about my answer to the one SQL question. It's very complex but it's all I could come up with.

It sounds like a good opportunity, and when you figure in benefits plus a shorter drive I should come out about equal financially, but it won't be the same. I'll likely be just another programmer in a cubicle instead of running an IT department from my own office with artwork and a window.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:51 AM
Anonymous Coward Anonymous Coward is offline
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Out of curiosity can you post the SQL question? It's been yonks since I did anything with SQL and I want to see what's expected nowadays.
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  #41  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:29 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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Out of curiosity can you post the SQL question? It's been yonks since I did anything with SQL and I want to see what's expected nowadays.
Sorry, but I don't think I should. The doc says confidential at the end of every page.
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:32 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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Today, I am once again training the new guy. From the tone of his grunts and "hmms" and the expressions on his face I think he's thinking, "what have I gotten myself into.
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:42 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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And he just now had to come to me to have me reset his email password.

And if he says "Hey thanks dude!" one more freakin' time I may scream.
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  #44  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:25 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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I haven't heard back about the tests. I'm not sure if that means anything or not. I'm itching to email them and ask when we can setup a live interview but I guess that's a bad idea.

Last edited by davidm; 11-27-2012 at 02:27 PM..
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  #45  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Taomist Taomist is offline
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I spent this afternoon training my replacement, with more to come.

Seriously? I know this job. I know this job well enough to train somebody else. So why is there somebody else?

Question is why are they TRAINING someone else...doesn't a layoff mean they're getting rid of the position? Are they having people do multiple jobs or something? 'cause...yeah. I know, technically, that most employers don't need a reason to tell you 'Pack your stuff and go home, don't need you any more' and hire someone else the same day, but an actual layoff usually has business implications.

And good luck, I can't imagine you'll be out of work long, and appendages are crossed for you!

Oh, and here's a little interview-related giggle for you

http://www.virtualshackles.com/ (Don't worry about the domain name, it's a comic )

Last edited by Taomist; 11-27-2012 at 02:39 PM..
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  #46  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:00 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Originally Posted by Taomist View Post
Question is why are they TRAINING someone else...doesn't a layoff mean they're getting rid of the position? Are they having people do multiple jobs or something? 'cause...yeah. I know, technically, that most employers don't need a reason to tell you 'Pack your stuff and go home, don't need you any more' and hire someone else the same day, but an actual layoff usually has business implications.

And good luck, I can't imagine you'll be out of work long, and appendages are crossed for you!

Oh, and here's a little interview-related giggle for you

http://www.virtualshackles.com/ (Don't worry about the domain name, it's a comic )
That's what I don't understand. I've been told that it's not me, they just want to "go in another direction". That, of course is a meaningless buzz phrase.

And while I was typing this, the new guy walked in and asked if we had any blank DVD disks, which I was able to immediately pull out of a drawer. He's been obviously happy about how I have things organized, it will make his job easier. Things weren't organized when I took this job. There was no formal tracking of the computer inventory like there is now. I guess in the end I did all of that to make this other person's job easier while I collect unemployment.

The guy is Ned Flanders cheery. I'm expecting a "diddly" any moment. At least he didn't say "hey, thanks dude" this time.
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  #47  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:34 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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I'm thinking now that this may be age discrimination, or possibly disability discrimination. My last day is Friday, so maybe I'll head to the EEOC next Monday.

A little while back, one of the employees in our office had a baby and took some maternity time, then came back to work part time. A while after that, she was let go. I don't know the details, just that she wasn't given notice or anything and it wasn't due to cutbacks. They just told her one day and she was gone.The rumor was that it was because of job performance, but I can't swear to truth of that rumor.

Some time later, she was back! She's not working in the corporate office, but at a nearby location. It all seemed strange to me. I'm wondering now if she brought some kind of maternity discrimination suit.

I can't say too much, but being the IT guy I was the guy who had to copy and archive a bunch of emails due to some sort of employment lawsuit involving the company in another part of the country. So I know that there's a history of at least one (justified or not, I can't say) and possibly two, cases with this company.

So maybe this is more of the same. The timing seems almost designed so as to avoid a discrimination charge. If the one man consulting firm that I worked for (which has a family connection to the company) had laid me off there could have been a possible case against him. If I had submitted an application to the actual company there could have been a possible hiring discrimination case. But the way they did it, the company didn't refuse to hire me, since they had filled the position before I could even apply. And my employer let me go because of lack of work and thus cutbacks; because he lost the contract. So no one's to blame! They're home free.

Except... I may have a hiring discrimination suit against them. The corporate HR woman had suggested to me several times in the past that I seek some kind of deal where I would be on the company's payroll and therefore have benefits. So the thought was there, Plus, even if I never applied for the job (since they filled it before I even knew about it) it seems obvious that they would consider me since I had been doing the job for 2 years and nearly everyone seemed more than pleased with my performance. I've been complimented more than once.

And when my boss told me that he was laying me off and that I would be training my replacement, I asked why the company didn't make me an offer and he replied that "they just wanted to go in a different direction". Which sort of implied that I was a possible choice, since a "direction" has to be away from something, or in this case, someone. Also, in this context, "different direction" is a meaningless buzz phrase that sounds like a way to avoid answering the question.

Am I off base here? I don't know, but I may check out the EEOC anyway.

Last edited by davidm; 11-28-2012 at 12:38 AM..
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:00 AM
aaelghat aaelghat is offline
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I am not a employment lawyer, but unfortunately I don't think you have a case here....

You didn't have an employment agreement or relationship with the company, rather they had a contractual agreement with the IT consulting company. What that contract said, we don't know - but it is likely that your one-person IT consulting employer wanted to protect himself from them dropping their contract with him, and hiring you directly, and wrote that provision into the contract - unless you can find out what was in the contract, you are at a disadvantage and it would be hard for anyone to advise you.

The company you worked at may have been in a difficult position, because they contractually couldn't hire you away from the IT Consulting firm. Perhaps they were hoping you would quit the IT Consulting company in which case they would be legally OK, but as of now, the IT Consulting company is still your employer.

In terms of hiring discrimination, assuming a standard consulting contract, they can't hire you if you are working for someone else, and it would look very fishy if they ended the IT Consulting contract, just to pick you up directly.

I don't know how big the company you worked for is, but it's not uncommon for companies to have to dig up evidence during a discovery phase for issues with merit or not.

Regarding age discrimination, are you 40 or above? That's where the protected class starts. Would the corporate HR woman be privy to the details of the contract between you and your IT consulting company?

You can certainly consult an attorney - but if I were you I wouldn't let this distract from your focus of getting a new job.
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:31 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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Of course I'm 40 or above, or I wouldn't be considering this possibility. Without going into details there's also the possibility of disability discrimination. I have no idea if the HR woman is privy to all of the details of my contract with the consulting company, but of course I have a copy.

In the whole time I was there I received 0 performance complaints, and when I was told I was being laid off, I was told specifically "it wasn't you". I was told that they wanted to go with a different firm that wanted to place their own person. When I asked "why didn't company make me an offer" I was told first that they wanted somebody who could do some traveling. When I stated that I could do that I was told that they just wanted to go in a "different direction".

While training this person I asked what consulting firm he was with and he said there was no firm he was an employee of the corporation. At one point, thinking that perhaps I could get some consulting work because nobody can learn all of it in two weeks, I asked the new guy if he was sure he was going to have all the information he needed and he said that he could get what he needed from my former employer. When I asked how long that former employer was available to him for questions he said "basically, as long as I need him".

So why was I told that the corporation was going with a new firm, and how could my former employer be available to him as needed if the contract had ended? And why was I given changing, bullshit, evasive answers when I asked why the corporation didn't make me an offer?

And why was I training someone else to perform the same functions that I had previously performed, keeping in mind that I received praise from individuals I supported, and no complaints from either the individuals I supported nor anyone in management, nor the man I worked for, who in fact gave me a substantial raise at one point during my employment with him?
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:57 AM
davidm davidm is offline
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I should add that I'm over 50 which is the actual cutoff in federal law.

I've worked in this field for decades, both as a consultant and as a direct employee, and I know when something smells fishy. I'm getting bullshit answers and conflicting information. I've personally received praise from some of the people I support and I've never received any warnings about my performance, and in fact was given a substantial raise at one point.

Immediate coworkers in the corporate office are aghast at this. That's not a reaction that occurs when someone who is non-productive and hard to work with is terminated. When that happens people give polite sympathy, not whispered conversations about how it doesn't make sense.

Some others, both former employees and people in other locations have told me that what I'm experiencing seems to be typical behavior for this company and have even suggested that they have had the impression of replacements for age or gender.

I'll also add that, other than one oriental woman, corporate is one of the whitest places I've ever worked. Admittedly that's not true about other offices, but corporate is very sensitive about appearances. That's not directly relevant to me since I'm white, but it may show a mindset.

Last edited by davidm; 11-28-2012 at 06:58 AM..
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