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  #1  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:59 AM
Namkcalb Namkcalb is offline
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Why did Mitt Romney fail with Hispanics

Romney was the first Mexican to be a major presidential candidate and yet he got less than a third of the Hispanic vote.

Why?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:19 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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1) He's a Republican, and Republicans in general aren't very popular in the Hispanic community right now.

2) He's not a Mexican in any meaningful sense.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2012, 04:31 AM
Tapioca Dextrin Tapioca Dextrin is offline
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Donal Trump and President Obama don't have much in common, but they both agree that Romney's self deportation didn't go over well with Hispanics.

Personally, I think it might have had something to do with the dayglo dego look
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:15 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Mitt Romney is a Mexican in the sense that Barack Obama is a Kenyan.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:24 AM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is offline
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Most of the dislike Hispanics and other minorities and women have towards the Republicans has nothing to do with them wanting "one of their own" elected; it has to do with the hostility the Republicans have long demonstrated towards them. Palin didn't win over women either.

Or to hypothetically turn it around; a white guy running as a member of the "We Hate White Guys Party" wouldn't get many white men to vote for him either.

Last edited by Der Trihs; 12-01-2012 at 05:24 AM..
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:33 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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Even if Mitt Romney is Mexican, that doesn't make him Hispanic. His "Mexican" father was born in a town occupied by English-speaking Americans from Utah.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 12-01-2012 at 05:36 AM..
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:01 AM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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Because any meaningful outreach to Hispanics would have lost him the vote of the "DER TERK ARR JERBS!!" block. The latter are a much more reliable constituency.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:17 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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He has no cultural ties to Mexico. His ancestors fled to Mexico to be free to practice polygamy. In the primary season, it was a race of who could declare the most disgust for the "illegals". Declaring that he was going to make things so miserable here for Mexican immigrants that they would self-deport isn't the way to get Hispanic votes.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:58 AM
lawoot lawoot is offline
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So how could his father have run for President back in the '60s if he was born in Mexico?
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:14 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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Originally Posted by lawoot View Post
So how could his father have run for President back in the '60s if he was born in Mexico?
Being born outside the US doesn't mean you're not an American citizen.

Last edited by Chefguy; 12-01-2012 at 10:14 AM..
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  #11  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:16 AM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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Originally Posted by lawoot View Post
So how could his father have run for President back in the '60s if he was born in Mexico?
Looks like George's parents were both American-born and essentially "living abroad" in Mexico for a while, then fled back to the US when the Mexican Revolution broke out. So even though he was born outside the US proper, he's still an American since his parents were Americans.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 12-01-2012 at 10:16 AM..
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:16 AM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is online now
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Originally Posted by Namkcalb View Post
Romney was the first Mexican to be a major presidential candidate...
No he most certainly was not. The term Mexican indicates someone who is a citizen of Mexico, just like a Canadian is a citizen of Canada or an American is a citizen of the USA. Some of his ancestors lived for some years in Mexico but he never did.

Mexican is not a synonym for Hispanic.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 12-01-2012 at 10:17 AM..
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:42 AM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is online now
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Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Being born outside the US doesn't mean you're not an American citizen.
John McCain is the most recent example of a presidential candidate who was not born in the US. Curiously, that has not bothered the Birthers who have issues with Barack Obama.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2012, 01:04 PM
Simplicio Simplicio is online now
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
John McCain is the most recent example of a presidential candidate who was not born in the US. Curiously, that has not bothered the Birthers who have issues with Barack Obama.
The argument for McCain not being qualified to be President is actually pretty decent. It doesn't require any bizarre conspiracy theories or rewriting the story of his birth, it just needs one to interpret the law in a debatable, but reasonable way.

Which isn't to say I think McCain should've been disqualified from running. The argument for him being qualified is also pretty straightforward, and given two readings of the law which are both reasonable, it makes sense to just choose the one that maximizes the people that can run.

Still, I think of all the men who've received a major party nomination, the argument against McCain being constituionally disqualified is probably the strongest. So its kind of amusing that the people stringing incredibly implausible arguments against Obama's qualifications were backing a man whose own qualifications were open to more reasonable criticism.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:01 PM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin View Post
Personally, I think it might have had something to do with the dayglo dego look
Careful buddy, we Italians don't want him either. Also (not that I particularly care), dago is an ethnic slur.
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:09 PM
njtt njtt is online now
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Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey View Post
Careful buddy, we Italians don't want him either. Also (not that I particularly care), dago is an ethnic slur.
Yes, but it is an ethnic slur against Hispanics (Diego --> dago) not Italians. If you want to slur Italians, they are wops.
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:16 PM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is online now
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It originated as a term for Spaniards, but it expanded to be a slur against people of Mediterranean origin, including Italians and Portuguese, as a cursory reading of Christie and Sayers shows.

See: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dago
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:32 PM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Originally Posted by njtt View Post
Yes, but it is an ethnic slur against Hispanics (Diego --> dago) not Italians. If you want to slur Italians, they are wops.
Trust me, dago is an Italian slur. If Jersey Shore didn't convince, stop by my house for Christmas dinner. The word dago (as in "We're such dagos!") will be uttered at least once.
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2012, 04:36 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Mitt Romney is less a Mexican than John McCain is a Panamanian (and McCain is not a Panamanian), and yes, he's less Mexican than Obama is Kenyan. There's no reason to expect this to have helped him with Hispanic voters, and in fact on that "47%" video Romney himself bemoaned this fact. The Republican Party is not much liked by Hispanic voters right now. It's not just immigration - I think the problem is that on a national level (there are individual exceptions) Republicans only view Hispanics through a prism of illegal immigration: witness the Arizona papers law. That's probably somewhat true of the Democrats, but I don't think it's true to the same extent. There just isn't a lot of outreach there and they're not displaying much interest. Romney certainly didn't.
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  #20  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:18 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by Namkcalb View Post
Romney was the first Mexican...
Can you 'splain to us how you come to the conclusion that Romney is Mexican?
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  #21  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Lobohan Lobohan is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Can you 'splain to us how you come to the conclusion that Romney is Mexican?
His dad was born there, mang.

I mean sure it was because Romney's dad's dad was a cultist sicko who had a harem of female slaves, but aside from that and the fact that they were lily-white and utterly uninterested in assimilating, totally Mexican.
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  #22  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:08 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Don't know for sure. Hispanics have historically been about 2-1 democratic, but under Romney they were 3-1.

Bush made some inroads and only lost hispanics by about 10-15 points in 2004.

I assume the anti-immigration rhetoric coming from the GOP combined with the bad economy and Romney being a plutocrat.
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:59 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by Lobohan View Post
His dad was born there, mang.

I mean sure it was because Romney's dad's dad was a cultist sicko who had a harem of female slaves, but aside from that and the fact that they were lily-white and utterly uninterested in assimilating, totally Mexican.
I know his family history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WC
I assume the anti-immigration rhetoric coming from the GOP combined with the bad economy and Romney being a plutocrat.
It was specifically the anti-[illegal] immigration rhetoric from Romney himself that was probably more important.
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:02 PM
Lobohan Lobohan is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
I know his family history.
Yeah, I'm sure you do. But since you didn't get what the OP was (ludicrously) suggesting, I was trying to help.
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:58 PM
digs digs is online now
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The answer to "Why did ______ lose the _____ vote?" is often:

"Because ______ not-so-secretly holds ______s in contempt."
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:59 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey View Post
Trust me, dago is an Italian slur. If Jersey Shore didn't convince, stop by my house for Christmas dinner. The word dago (as in "We're such dagos!") will be uttered at least once.
But where does "wop" come from?
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:36 PM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is online now
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Originally Posted by BrainGlutton View Post
But where does "wop" come from?
It's the sound a Fiat makes driving by with a flat.
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:48 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by Lobohan View Post
Yeah, I'm sure you do. But since you didn't get what the OP was (ludicrously) suggesting, I was trying to help.
No worries. I want the OP specifically to tell us why he thinks Romney is a Mexican. Looks like we won't see him posting any more in his thread, though.
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  #29  
Old 12-02-2012, 04:35 AM
Bridget Burke Bridget Burke is offline
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Originally Posted by BrainGlutton View Post
But where does "wop" come from?
I've heard it came from guapo, Spanish for "handsome." (Spain ruled Naples at one time; checking Wikipedia makes me realize that, for somebody interested in history, I still have a lot to learn.)

So, some of the Napolitanos called each other guapo--much as some American guys use (or used to use) "dude." Many of our Italian immigrants came from that region. Like many racial or ethnic slurs, it's not inherently offensive. But it was used rudely by xenophobes--so it became tainted...
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:58 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridget Burke View Post
I've heard it came from guapo, Spanish for "handsome." (Spain ruled Naples at one time; checking Wikipedia makes me realize that, for somebody interested in history, I still have a lot to learn.)

So, some of the Napolitanos called each other guapo--much as some American guys use (or used to use) "dude." Many of our Italian immigrants came from that region. Like many racial or ethnic slurs, it's not inherently offensive. But it was used rudely by xenophobes--so it became tainted...
Then it got retro-fitted with an explanation that it stood for WithOut Papers, stamped on Visa applications or some such when they arrived in America. Which means that invective against "illegals" has been strong for a long time (I recall Mexican immigrants being called "wetbacks" when I was young, a term left over from an earlier era, and not in vogue anymore that I'm aware).

As for the OP:

The reason that he didn't do well with Hispanic voters is that they recognize that his (and the Republican Party's) proposals regarding immigration and the US - Mexico border are inherently discriminatory against Hispanics. I read somewhere just after the election (probably an op-ed by Charles Krauthammer) that the Republican Party should be willing to modify immigration policy to appease the concerns of Hispanic voters. Just agree that once the border with Mexico is verifiably secure (no significant numbers of illegal immigrants from south of the USA), offer some sort of pathway to citizenship/residency for those who are here already. Somewhere along the way, this person did not realize that the call to secure the southern border is inherently "racist" if you will, because it contains a premise that we somehow have to stem the flow of THOSE people into the country, without, of course, worrying about any other possible rivulets of illegally present persons.

Ask elderly Chinese-Americans, and I'm sure they can advise you what this sort of antipathy is like (or just read up on American policy towards East Asian immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s).
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  #31  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:18 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by digs View Post
The answer to "Why did ______ lose the _____ vote?" is often:

"Because ______ not-so-secretly holds ______s in contempt."
You win the thread.
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:23 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Originally Posted by digs View Post
The answer to "Why did ______ lose the _____ vote?" is often:

"Because ______ not-so-secretly holds ______s in contempt."
So Barack Obama holds white people and men in contempt?
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:24 PM
drewtwo99 drewtwo99 is online now
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You win the thread.
Concurred. That was pithy brilliance.
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  #34  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:36 PM
mrpayday mrpayday is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridget Burke View Post
I've heard it came from guapo, Spanish for "handsome." (Spain ruled Naples at one time; checking Wikipedia makes me realize that, for somebody interested in history, I still have a lot to learn.)

So, some of the Napolitanos called each other guapo--much as some American guys use (or used to use) "dude." Many of our Italian immigrants came from that region. Like many racial or ethnic slurs, it's not inherently offensive. But it was used rudely by xenophobes--so it became tainted...
that;s interesting, a friend just told me guapo means handsome in Tagalog, obviously derived from Spanish.
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  #35  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:32 PM
sisu sisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Mitt Romney is a Mexican in the sense that Barack Obama is a Kenyan.
Love it.

So why wouldn't hispanics vote for a conservative, mormon, old white guy? He personifies cool, got me perplexed......
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  #36  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:57 PM
Miller Miller is online now
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Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
So Barack Obama holds white people and men in contempt?
Note that he did not specify which noun goes in which blank in each sentence.
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  #37  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:07 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Note that he did not specify which noun goes in which blank in each sentence.
Good point.
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  #38  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:46 PM
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Oh, hi, author of the blankedy blank post finally having time to check back in. To find that I ... won the thread? (I'm assuming I have to get my own trophy made, with a little bronze "Smart Ass" on top)*

I just wanted to point out that in the case of Obama and rich old white guys... the contempt flows in the other direction.



*Come to think of it, as soon as I get that trophy made, though, I'm dropping it off at Smapti's apartment:
Quote:
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Mitt Romney is a Mexican in the sense that Barack Obama is a Kenyan.
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:15 AM
Esox Lucius Esox Lucius is offline
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Calling Romney a Mexican sounds like Republican bubble spin to convince themselves they'd win. The OP would have made more sense as "Culturally, Hispanics are generally anti-abortion and anti-gay, yet Romney got less than a third of their vote. Why?"

Perhaps because they saw in Obama, when he announced the DREAM Act, someone actually reaching out to them and thoughtfully treating them like human beings instead of being just another immigration basher.

Quote:
Elizabeth Alvisar is exactly the sort of voter Mitt Romney needs.

A victim of the brutal economy in this swing state, the 30-year-old tax preparer has been out of work for months. She's a foe of abortion and gay marriage, and was naturally drawn to the Republican ticket.

But Alvisar has switched her support to President Barack Obama because of his support for legislation known as the DREAM Act.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1997898.html
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:16 AM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Mitt Romney is a Mexican in the sense that Barack Obama is a Kenyan.
Oh, no. Barack Obama's father was born in Kenya to Kenyan parents whose residence in what is now Kenya goes back several generations. Barack Obama is Kenyan in the sense that Michael Dukakis is Greek. (On one side, anyway.)

Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico to parents born in the United States who were in religious/cultural/legal exile at the time. George Romney was Mexican in the sense that John McCain was Panamanian. Mitt Romney's claim to being "Mexican" is, by definition, even more tenuous. Nothing there to help with the Latino vote that I can see.
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  #41  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:19 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by StusBlues View Post
Mitt Romney's claim to being "Mexican" is, by definition, even more tenuous.
The OP made that claim. Did Romney?
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  #42  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:21 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
The OP made that claim. Did Romney?
Most definitely not. He did claim that if he was Hispanic that it would be to his electoral benefit.
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  #43  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:22 AM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
The OP made that claim. Did Romney?
Nope. Unless he did elsewhere. It wouldn't be the first time his public utterances were not entirely consistent.
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