I Pit my Brother who has Anger Management Issues

The BBQ Pit
1

My brother’s not on this board (well, he could be but I wouldn’t / don’t know it), so he can’t reply or defend himself here. As with all things, there’s at least two sides to every story, and here you’re of course only getting mine, FWIW and take it with the usual grain.

Brother, #4 of 5 siblings, married long ago. Wife is high-energy, very outgoing and outspoken, opinionated, engaging, emotional, gifted and talented, wears her highs and lows on her sleeve, and she’s quite attractive, someone who turns heads. Brother is quiet, closed, subdued, calm and level-headed (well, we’ll see about that), and quite cerebral. He’s very smart. Brother is also narcissistic - you can’t tell him anything new, it has to be his idea for it to be worthy, and while sometimes he asks for advice, he won’t really listen to or heed it.

They had two daughters and a rocky marriage. Brother soon became quite jealous, possessive and suspicious of Wife. Brother said he couldn’t trust her, but the reasons he shared were not substantive enough to justify his jealousy and suspicion. Wife would become frustrated with him and she began to lash out at him, physically lash out, early on. I sincerely believe Wife is the one who started the physical abuse in the relationship. I don’t think she is to “blame”, however, since I directly witnessed the dynamic there and Brother was very nonresponsive to even the simple requests - like asking him to warm up a baby bottle. Brother wouldn’t respond - it was baffling, really. Wife would hit Brother out of frustration (not with me there). I can truly understand and sympathize with Wife. Shortly after, Brother began to retaliate. It got violent.

Completely and utterly unacceptable, I’d tell him, back in the days when we used to talk. You have to change things. Wife hitting you, that’s not entirely in your control, but You Cannot Hit Her. (BTW, there’s no history of physical violence between our parents, although Father was verbally abusive towards us kids)

Over the years the beatings and violence got worse. Brother has been arrested several times, and he’s navigated the legal roads to get most or all incidents expunged from his record.Brother has, over the years, been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He has been arrested and detained in a mental institution. Once, I and two other siblings flew halfway across the USA to meet him, to help him get released, and to also help and talk with him since things (his marriage violence and his anger management, mainly) were really getting out of hand.

In one incident, Brother ran out of the house half naked on a not-warm day and threatened a teacher and her class full of grade school kids at a nearby school. He got arrested for this too, of course. Brother has refused treatment and any prescribed medications for his bipolar disorder, to the best of my knowledge. He says he’ll force himself to “control himself”.

Brother and Wife finally divorced after many years of abuse, largely because Brother had stuck stubbornly to the notion of “marriage is forever, for better or for worse” - when things are good, they’re really great, but when they’re bad they’re really bad - he would justify. It was Wife who finally filed, and she left him. Good for her, I say. It was good for both of them.

Wife often tells me that Brother has fallen very behind in support payments. He is not supporting his kids. But that’s another sad story.

At a Thanksgiving 3 years back, the entire family, spread across half the nation, got together. Brother was there, but neither Wife nor their girls. Brother got verbally abusive towards the family on several occassions. On one, I’m driving my car with Brother, our mother, and my wife. Some truly trivial thing set off Brother, and he got verbally abusive, loud, vulgar, just really ugly. Now I’m a Marine Corps veteran and ugly language doesn’t bother me one bit, but in front of my wife and our mother? Unacceptable.Maintaining my tone and volume of voice I calmly told him this, but it didn’t matter. I tried talking calmly, I tried yelling - I never lost my temper, I was varying my delivery to see if any of it would register with him. None of it did.

Mother engaged Brother’s angry, nonsensical ramblings, and that only served to propagate the ugly, nonsensical tirade. It wasn’t complete nonsense - his tirade was tangentially connected, but in the end it made no real sense, making mountains out of mole hills perceived but not real.

It was ugly, the things Brother said about and to all of us, not just in the car but in the house with most of us there, too. There was no reasoning with him, no discussing anything rationally, and I didn’t. A few times I was concerned he was going to get violent but it never did. That Thanksgiving was quite ugly. It was a scar on that family reunion.My mother, who lived near Brother back then, had shared with me the times when she was fearful of her own safety when with him.

He has threatened my (our) own mother!

Fortunately, Brother still lives halfway across the country from me and my wife, and we have chosen to start distancing ourselves from Brother. There’s no helping him, and while I truly hope he finds peace and happiness, he’s the one who has to choose that path. We cannot choose it for him. Thankfully, Mother no longer lives near Brother.

The final straw for me and my wife was a few months back when Brother, visiting together with his daughters a nearby sibling, lost his temper and got verbally abusive again. Brother’s daughter’s boyfriend was there and he was truly scared, not having experienced any of this before.I wasn’t there when it happened but Brother threatened his own daughter (who is 17), saying that he would snap her F-ing neck.

That’s the final straw for me. Over the years what Brother has said or done gets progressively worse and worse, and the family talks about it, we talk with Brother about it, but in the end nothing gets done and a few years later Brother does something bad again. When does it end, this escalating ugly behavior? Does someone have to get seriously hurt, or worse?

To us (me and my wife), threatening his own daughter (and our niece!) was enough and we cannot continue any sort of relationship with him. We’re cutting him off, totally. To not do so would condone his behavior, would tell him that we accept how he lives his life. I cannot do that. So, no contact, no dialog, no emails. No relationship. Sometimes Brother replies to a group email about some family event. I don’t reply to him. Sometimes I share happy family events (like my son, the dancer, recently performing at Carnegie Hall - yeah!!), but I don’t include Brother in that family email.

If I were to see Brother at a family event, I would be cordial, polite and short, and then would mostly avoid him.

The rest of the family don’t agree with my decision, not fully anyway. They think I’m being too harsh. I think they’re helping to (at least slightly) enable his behavior. While the family understands my thinking on this, they don’t agree with my decision to cut off Brother. Frankly, I’m concerned for my wife and her safety. I don’t want her to be at risk from this hothead.

If a total stranger had done this to my niece, it would not be condoned. Why accept it from a family member?

I’ve shared my concerns, rationale and decision with our kids. They’re in their 20s, so what they do is their decison. Since Brother lives far away, it’s easy to not see him often. But so help me, if Brother were to harm any of my kids, or my wife… … …

That’s it. I pit my brother, who has anger management issues.

Look folks, I realize there are much worse things out there, and some may read this and think, hey what’s the big deal, he hasn’t physically harmed anyone? To me, this is bad enough, this is serious enough.

Sorry this was so long. I really tried to keep it brief; there’s so much more to this story but nothing really new, only more details to enrich what I’ve said here. Theseare the essentials.

Thanks for listening.

2

I’ve never understood the belief that you have to put up with a bunch of shit from someone just because you both happen to have been yanked out of the same crotch.

Good for you.

3

Why didn’t the OP end with some reference to meatbags?

Or was I the only one reading it with HK47’s voice in the brain?

Also, you did good, OP.

4

IANADoctor, but that sounds like a classic bipolar hypomanic or manic episode. My late brother went through a period of this behavior a couple years ago, including the irrational animosity even in the face of placating calmness, the paranoid-type delusions about how other people were treating or perceiving him, the ego-inflated grandiosity, even at a couple of points the threats against our mother.

I would say your brother should definitely seek psychiatric treatment, although it won’t necessarily help, and you and your family might want to learn more about bipolar disorder and manic/hypomanic states. Good luck to you all.

5

You did damn good OP. Your responsibility now is your children, even if they are grown. Why keep toxic people in your life?

6

Good for you for drawing a line. Safety first!

The sad thing about depression is that many sufferers believe that they don’t deserve happiness. Which makes them reject the medications that may have a chance (they don’t work all the time) of helping them lift their depression. Also, depression can make one angry with the world, which may be going on with your brother.

And if it is a bi-polar disorder, he may be rejecting the meds because they take away the highs as well as moderating the lows. And many bi-polar people never want to give up the highs. That was the case with a friend of mine, who eventually killed herself about 15 years ago.

My teen-age daughter, who has clinical depression and oppositional defiant disorder*, has been helped tremendously by medications prescribed by a psychiatrist and DBT, a type of therapy. She is a lot less angry now, and is beginning to see that she can be happy, and deserves to be happy.

As part of your drawing a line in the sand, you could refuse all contact from your brother until he seeks help from a psychiatrist and/or a psychologist (a DBT counselor, preferably).

Good luck.

  • The conversation in the car with your mother sounds like a classic ODD exchange. The phrase that stood out as classic ODD was “making mountains out of mole hills perceived but not real.” Instant flashbacks to hundreds of such belligerent conversations my wife and I have had with our daughter.

I’ve been sucked into many of these conversations/confrontations with my daughter. With ODD, people’s emotions are so elevated, they can only use their emotional mind, and lose all ability to reason. That’s why a calm demeanor didn’t help, contrary to what common sense would tell you … that calmness only infuriates ODD people, as it’s perceived as taunting to them. (But of course if you yelled back, that would have been equally ineffective. Such is life living with an ODD person …)

7

Thanks for all the good words.

Counseling / therapy is out of the question, because clearly, “Nothing is wrong with me.” He truly believes all of us in the family are the ones who have the problems, not him. And yet, the rest of us all get along for the most part, frequently visit each other, and are normal with each other. Not, however, when Brother is involved.

You can lead a horse to water… well, this horse ain’t even approaching the water, let alone drinking it. (I got some Kool-Aid right here that I wish he’d drink)

Reading about ODD sounds like a good fit for his behavior, although he is not a child but he lives in a 40+ year old body. Hypo-manic and manic fit, too.

I have suggested with other siblings that we try an intervention of sorts, pleading with him to get help, standing unified with our observations of him and his behavior, and with the ultimatum of breaking off all contact (or some other ultimatum) until he takes himself to get help and, what’s more, to show us that he has been helped and that he will no longer burst out in violent rage fits. It’s baffling, but the family won’t do that.

So I stand alone in this (well, together with my wife), and hey, that’s okay. I’ll just agree to disagree with the family on this. You see, it’s easy for them to do this because Brother lives so far away that nobody has to see him on any regular basis. It’s every few months or every few years, then people get together. Brother typically blows up at some point during the get-together, and the family just sits tight until the storm blows over, knowing that soon, we’ll all be heading home or Brother will be heading onward.

Brother never atones for his last blowup, we part ways, nary a word of it is mentioned because the ostriches bury their heads in the sand, and then life has a way of happening and helping us to forget.

But nothing gets resolved. In a few months or years it’ll happen again, or it’ll be worse.

Lather - Rinse - Repeat.

8

Your brother sounds like the worse version of our Inigo Montoya. You may find Inigo’s posts on “having bipolar and why I don’t want to take meds” interesting… or they may make you want to punch a few walls.

I’m sad for your nephews :frowning:

9

It’s too bad. It sounds like my brother, except he didn’t ever get violent with anyone and fortunately never got married or had any kids.

Still, he’s got some sort of very serious problem. Possibly bipolar, but he won’t get treatment and he hasn’t been diagnosed by someone qualified.

He used to live on my Mom’s front couch. Slept there, watched TV, ate frozen burritos drank his coke and left the coke cans lying around. After he was eventually kicked out, my mom has still supported him completely. :rolleyes:

I spend far more time than I should trying to help him, but he get obsessed with an idea and is the stubbornest person in the world. I finally decided talking to the wall was less frustrating. If you talk to the wall for several decades or centuries, it will eventually cave in. No chance my brother ever would.

He did a couple of things which lead me to completely sever ties and block all of his emails. First, he keeps asking for money and blaming me personally for his problems. Second, when I don’t give him money, he escalates it, and has done things such as blaming me for the loss of my son a few years ago.

I just had to cut him out of my life. Couldn’t deal with him.

Pretty much everything I’ve read about mental illness is that you can’t do anything if the person doesn’t want help.

It’s not an easy choice, and if you’ve said your piece, then let others do what they want to.

10

Have you tried contacting your niece? I’d be concerned for her safety.

11

. I also think tht your brother is mentally ill. And yes, that is not a reason to suffer through his behavior. If your brother had frequent epileptic fits, he shouldn’t drive, and no-one could blame his family if they did not want to get into a car he chauffeured. But in that case, everyone would expect your brother to get treatment for his epilepsia, and not to drive again untill it was safe.
Unfortumately, many kinds of ilness prevent te sufferer from seeking treatment. Unless they truly become a danger to themselves or others, there is nothing anyone can do, except keep an open line and gently nudge the mentally ill family member to seek help.

12

Yes I’ve talked to her and let her know, both nieces actually. I’m in somewhat-regular contact with their mother, too. They know what they’re dealing with, with my Brother. They have been living with it for many years (had been, in the case of Brother’s Wife).

I am concerned for their safety. They have learned how to avoid him when he’s manically agitated.

13

Yes he is mentally ill. I’ve kept an open line for decades and tried to get him to seek help. He truly believes he doesn’t need it. He recognizes he’s had “episodes” in the past (when he threatened the teacher and her classroom of kids) and he feels he can simply control himself. For the most part he can, so he’s certain he doesn’t need help. He does not see, however, the patterns in his life over the past 30 years and its downward trajectory.

It’s the boiling frog analogy.

14

Unfortunately the stories sound similar. I’ve said my piece, tried to get the family to see things as they are, and that’s that.

There is one sibling, our sister, who long ago decided to have nothing to do with him. She was the first among us, although she did it more quietly than I. I wasn’t loud about it, I felt this decision needed a quiet and serious one-on-one discussion with every other family member. This includes my ex-wife, the mother of my kids - I felt she needed to know what Brother had been doing lately, including this last straw, for her safety and again for the safety of our kids.

It isn’t beyond Brother to show up at my ex-wife’s door with a smile and saying, “Hi! I was in town and thought I’d say hello. How have you guys been?”

My telling each family member of my decision, including to my Brother gently, firmly and yet lovingly, lets Brother know that everyone knows.

Brother has stayed away from most family members. For now.

15

Interesting. I recognize the name from occassional threads here but haven’t noticed Inigo’s specific posts about that. Thanks for the info.

16

Most definitely, yes.

I have told him this, yes. I truly hope he gets well and finds peace and contentment in his life.

Good luck with your daughter, Spiff, I hope she gets well.

17

No kidding, Shirley, ain’t that the truth. But also, coming from the same crotch, as you put it, I think means we are a bit obligated to give family more chances. Unfortunately, some family members (like Brother) abuse this privilege.

18

Yes. If an ODD teenager becomes an adult and the behavior persists, the diagnosis changes to antisocial personality disorder or conduct disorder.

And thanks for your good wishes for my daughter. She is getting better and my wife and I have our fingers crossed that she can pull herself out of these dark times, aided by our love, good medicine, and good therapy.

19

Given the severity of disorder he likely has, he may not exactly realize how bad things are. The nature of mental disorders that affect emotions so severely is that they make it extremely difficult to realize during that you have a problem, and afterwards it can substantially damage your ability to cope or correct.

In short, I know people who do bad things because they realy don’t care about others. Some people do bad things because they’re truly sick.

20

No, he has an illness.

And frankly, I don’t think you, or your family are doing much to help your brother.

Pleading with him to get help doesn’t work, and never will, because he thinks “Nothing is wrong with me.” That is a common symptom of his illness. But your family reaction – it’s like you all are looking at him laying on the ground, and saying “looks like that leg is broken – you ought to get up and walk yourself to the hospital”. Won’t happen. You need to be much more serious about an intervention.

He’s threatening your mother?
He’s blowing up, and seriously frightening your brothers’ daughters’ boyfriend?

That is the time to grab your phone, dial 911, and get the police there. Tell them that he is in another explosive rage, is not taking medication, and you fear that he is a danger to others, and possibly himself. But ask that instead of taking him to jail, they take him in for a psych evaluation. With those results, you should be able to persuade the prosecutor to ask the court for a commitment order. Then he will get the help he needs.

I’m not saying this will be easy. It will not. My family had to have an involuntary commitment of a family member to get treatment, and doing that was one of the hardest things we ever did. Family members really know how to push your emotional buttons to try to convince you not to do this. You just have to be unwavering about this. It will be very difficult.

But if you all really love your brother, then he’s worth the pain & effort to get him help. And if it doesn’t work, then he will be really angry and hate you and never speak to you for the rest of your life – but isn’t that pretty much what is happening with cutting him off?

I’m not criticizing you here – you must decide this for yourself.
I’m just suggesting that you consider one last, serious effort to get him the help he needs. For the sake of your mother, and the rest of your family, and his daughters – and for your brother. He’s family, and worth a try.