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  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 02:49 PM
pancakes3 pancakes3 is offline
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Creationist Science Test from 4th Grade Science Class

http://imgur.com/a/pPJmj#0

I question the provenance.
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2013, 03:39 PM
Maserschmidt Maserschmidt is offline
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I like how the teacher helpfully labeled the grade, in case the students were confused.
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2013, 03:48 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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It's possible the teacher is teaching multiple science grades and labeled the test for organizational reasons. I don't know that I'd buy that explanation, though.
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  #4  
Old 04-22-2013, 03:53 PM
tim314 tim314 is offline
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Not a public school, is it?
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  #5  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:06 PM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is online now
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Not a public school, is it?
I doubt it, if it's real. I hope it's not.
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  #6  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:26 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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No teacher I know heads a quiz with information like that. It looks either: professionally produced or photoshopped. In any case, a fake.
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:35 PM
astro astro is offline
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Not a creationism fan by any means but it screams fakey, fake.

Nice super generic title

"4th GRADE SCIENCE QUIZ"

Seriously?


Thanks for the tip because it would be real confusing if it said something more expected like "Module 4 - Section 3" or similar.
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  #8  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:29 PM
Onomatopoeia Onomatopoeia is online now
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Yeah. Fake.
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:45 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Originally Posted by tim314 View Post
Not a public school, is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
Nice super generic title

"4th GRADE SCIENCE QUIZ"
If it's a private school run by people dumb enough to believe that stuff I can believe they couldn't think of a better title for the test. Fake most likely, but maybe some homeschool thing also.

Anyway, if it's a fake I applaud the creator for creativity. If it's real I applaud the creator for their belief in the creator and their ability to harm children and rob them of a chance to live in a house without wheels.
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  #10  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:53 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Dinosaurs lived with people. True that should be False

The age of dinos was well before man. Unless you're Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

Theres no reason a creationist would dispute that. Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs.

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-22-2013 at 05:54 PM..
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:54 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Dinosaurs lived with people. True that should be False

The age of dinos was well before man.

Theres no reason a creationist would dispute that. Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs.
Uh, no. You must have missed a day at school. We were all created on the 6th day. Even the fourth grader knew that.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:19 PM
Blackberry Blackberry is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Dinosaurs lived with people. True that should be False

The age of dinos was well before man. Unless you're Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

Theres no reason a creationist would dispute that. Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs.
Google the Creationist Museum. Marvel at the....I don't know the word for it.

When I was little I remember my religious nut aunt saying that dinosaur fossils were placed there by God to test our faith, or else by scientists to trick us...something like that. Now they seem to have changed it to say that dinosaurs did exist, but at the same time as humans.
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:31 PM
Onomatopoeia Onomatopoeia is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Dinosaurs lived with people. True that should be False

The age of dinos was well before man. Unless you're Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

Theres no reason a creationist would dispute that. Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs.
Welllllll... According to Creationists, the behemoth and leviathan as examples of dinosaurs referenced in the bible. I don't know if these creatures are mentioned in Genesis.
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  #14  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:31 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Dinosaurs lived with people. True that should be False

The age of dinos was well before man. Unless you're Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

Theres no reason a creationist would dispute that. Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs.
There are Creationists who don't take the word "day" in Genesis 1 literally, even though the author goes out of his way to make it clear that he means a 24-hour day, e.g., "And the evening and the morning were the second day." They say a "day" could be a period of millions of years, which gives time for the rise and fall of dinosaurs before the creation of humans.

But there are so-called Young-Earth Creationists who do take Genesis 1 (and subsequent chapters) literally, so they believe that the earth and all life was created in the same six-day period. And since Genesis gives the ages of the patriarchs at the time the next link in the lineage was born, they can add them up from Adam down to a time we can date (approximately) by extra-Biblical methods, and they come up with an age for the earth of 6 to 10 thousand years.

Personally, I think the second group has more integrity. The first group IMO is trying not to look ignorant of science, but they succeed only in compromising their faith.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:35 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Job 40:15-24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

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Originally Posted by Onomatopoeia View Post
Welllllll... According to Creationists, the behemoth and leviathan as examples of dinosaurs referenced in the bible. I don't know if these creatures are mentioned in Genesis.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:39 PM
EmilyG EmilyG is offline
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"Creationist science" is an oxymoron.

(I almost typed "cretinist science.")
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:17 PM
njtt njtt is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Dinosaurs lived with people. True that should be False

The age of dinos was well before man. Unless you're Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

Theres no reason a creationist would dispute that. Genesis doesn't mention dinosaurs.
You haven't heard about the Jesus horse?
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  #18  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:19 PM
Qwakkeddup Qwakkeddup is offline
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Originally Posted by EmilyG View Post
"Creationist science" is an oxymoron.

(I almost typed "cretinist science.")
You missed an A+, should not have second guessed yourself.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:28 PM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
There are Creationists who don't take the word "day" in Genesis 1 literally, even though the author goes out of his way to make it clear that he means a 24-hour day, e.g., "And the evening and the morning were the second day." They say a "day" could be a period of millions of years, which gives time for the rise and fall of dinosaurs before the creation of humans.
Note: everything I say here is based on an English translation

I'm not at all sure how you can take the word "day" in Genesis to mean a literal 24 hour period. Each day is described as an "evening" and a "morning", but since the sun wasn't created until the fourth day, these "days" don't seem to be what we think of as days.

This doesn't help with the dinosaur issue, of course, because land creatures weren't produced until the sixth day -- after the sun.

Pterosaurs and plesiosaurs were created on the fifth day I presume along with the other winged and sea creatures

Last edited by OldGuy; 04-22-2013 at 07:28 PM..
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:01 PM
basset hound basset hound is online now
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I teach 4th grade science. The only chance that could be a real test is if it was for a very small fundamentalist christian school. Though it's a sad fact there are certainly adults in this country who would give the same answers on that quiz, there's no way it could come from a public school.
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  #21  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:23 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by OldGuy View Post
I'm not at all sure how you can take the word "day" in Genesis to mean a literal 24 hour period. Each day is described as an "evening" and a "morning", but since the sun wasn't created until the fourth day, these "days" don't seem to be what we think of as days.
That's a nit, compared to having fruit trees growing before the sun was created. The answer, in both cases, is, "It's a miracle!"
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  #22  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:18 PM
Götterfunken Götterfunken is offline
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FWIW, Snopes has rated this story as "Probably True":

Quote:
The image was publicized in a post to Reddit's r/atheism forum, made by a user who maintained that it was a real quiz given at a private religious school in South Carolina, and that he was shown the quiz by the student's parent and took a picture of it with his iPhone. He declined to identify the school for now, stating that "I am not publicizing it since it is a small school and I don't want any publicity that might reflect badly on the kid" and "I don't want the kid to get in trouble, so I am keeping that under my hat until June when school is over," although he did allow that the school was "North of Greer, SC." A few days after the Reddit posting, a reader wrote to us and reported that the quiz displayed above belonged to his 10-year-old daughter...
Snopes has also posted a photo of what's purported to be a second page from this quiz, provided by the person claiming to be the student's father. Not definitive proof, but both of Snopes's sources (the father and the father's friend) indicate they would reveal the name of the school in June, once the school year's over.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/sciencetest.asp

Last edited by Götterfunken; 04-25-2013 at 01:19 PM..
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  #23  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:33 PM
ArrMatey! ArrMatey! is offline
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One of my nephews is home-schooled, and for a while was part of a more... Religious... Home-schooling circle (when my sister-in-law found out what they were teaching, he got yanked real fast). My sis-in-law gave me the science textbook they used, and I keep it around for a laugh. Some gems from it:

1) All the planets have a 'reason' for being there, and even if we don't know what those reasons are, G-d does, and that's all we need to find out.

2) Dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time, as evidenced by the fact that so many cultures have dragon myths (I wish I was making that up).

And my absolute favorite:

3) If enough people believe in something, that means it's probably true.

My brother made sure my sis-in-law gave me the book, just for grins, but he -refuses- to let me even bring it back into their house.
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  #24  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:38 PM
Doug K. Doug K. is offline
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Originally Posted by Götterfunken View Post
Not definitive proof, but both of Snopes's sources (the father and the father's friend) indicate they would reveal the name of the school in June, once the school year's over.
That's dangerously close to FOAF. Seems out of character for Snopes.
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  #25  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:49 PM
FrancisCastle FrancisCastle is offline
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I just love the second page posted on the Snopes site. The last question "The next time someone says the Earth is billions (or millions) of years old, what can you say?"

Answer: "Were you there"

Haha perfect cocky fourth grade answer.
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  #26  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:00 PM
Heart of Dorkness Heart of Dorkness is offline
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Originally Posted by FrancisCastle View Post
Answer: "Were you there"

Haha perfect cocky fourth grade answer.
Well, it wasn't the kid's idea. That's actually Ken Ham's trademark phrase, and in his lectures, he instructs people to say exactly that.
Quote:
Since 1989, Ham has frequently made the comment, "Were you there?" regarding the origins of life and evolution,[30] implying that knowledge of unwitnessed events is inferential and not observational.
That said, it is fourth-grade level argumentation.
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  #27  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:13 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is online now
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
That's a nit, compared to having fruit trees growing before the sun was created. The answer, in both cases, is, "It's a miracle!"
Fuckin' photosynthesis, how does it work?
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:19 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Fuckin' photosynthesis, how does it work?
There is no fucking in photosynthesis.
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:10 PM
Smeghead Smeghead is offline
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More's the pity.
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:19 PM
Peremensoe Peremensoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness View Post
Well, it wasn't the kid's idea. That's actually Ken Ham's trademark phrase, and in his lectures, he instructs people to say exactly that.

That said, it is fourth-grade level argumentation.
But... the same exact 'argument' can be applied to his version!
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  #31  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:23 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug K. View Post
That's dangerously close to FOAF. Seems out of character for Snopes.
I'm a little suspicious of the fact that the witnesses here were posting this on an atheism forum, indicating that they have strong atheist views. But they supposedly sent their children to a religious school and were surprised to discover that school had a religious agenda. And when they did discover it, their response was to ridicule the school online rather than talk to the school administration or remove their child from the school. And when the first witness is questioned, a second witness pops up to corroborate the story. But both witnesses claim that while they have evidence to support their story they can't show it right now.

I have to say this looks a lot more like a propaganda campaign than a real life situation.
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:35 PM
Roadfood Roadfood is offline
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Originally Posted by Peremensoe View Post
But... the same exact 'argument' can be applied to his version!
"The next time someone says the Earth is six thousand years old, what can you say?"

Were you there??

"The next time someone says Jesus was the son of god, what can you say?"

Were you there??

"The next time someone quotes anything from the Bible, what can you say?"

Were you there??

Yeah, I like it, I might use that sometime.
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:36 PM
Miller Miller is offline
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
It's possible the teacher is teaching multiple science grades and labeled the test for organizational reasons. I don't know that I'd buy that explanation, though.
Perhaps the school doesn't create its own educational materials, but buys them from some "Christian science" organization, and the test is labelled like that so the school knows which part of their curriculum it's supposed to go with?
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  #34  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:38 PM
Deeg Deeg is offline
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But... the same exact 'argument' can be applied to his version!
All he needs to do is plant doubt and be able to say "my version is just as likely as yours".
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  #35  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Deeg Deeg is offline
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I have to say this looks a lot more like a propaganda campaign than a real life situation.
My thoughts exactly. I'm a little disappointed in Snopes for labeling this "probably" true.
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:48 PM
Alley Dweller Alley Dweller is offline
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But... the same exact 'argument' can be applied to his version!
And you know the answer is going to be: God was there and he caused it all to be written down in the Bible so that we can know the Truth.

When you start with the premise that the Bible is the literal written word of God, that kind of argument doesn't work. The person you are arguing with believes he has the credible Word of the one who was there for all of this. He is not basing his belief on personal reasoning, he has the revealed Truth.

Last edited by Alley Dweller; 04-25-2013 at 04:49 PM..
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  #37  
Old 04-26-2013, 12:17 PM
Tufflaw Tufflaw is offline
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I don't think it's a good argument to say that the title of the quiz looks fishy because it just says "4th grade science quiz". This was on the first page of a google search for that phrase and it looks real to me, and appears to be on a school's website. http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/canbylan...4457ED35E9.pdf
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  #38  
Old 04-26-2013, 12:37 PM
Revtim Revtim is offline
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My thoughts exactly. I'm a little disappointed in Snopes for labeling this "probably" true.
I thought that too, but it's not like it's an extraordinary claim that the test is genuine. It's not disputed that creationism is being taught in private schools, and hence quizzes like this are going to exist.
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  #39  
Old 04-26-2013, 12:56 PM
Tequila Party Tequila Party is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I'm a little suspicious of the fact that the witnesses here were posting this on an atheism forum, indicating that they have strong atheist views. But they supposedly sent their children to a religious school and were surprised to discover that school had a religious agenda. And when they did discover it, their response was to ridicule the school online rather than talk to the school administration or remove their child from the school. And when the first witness is questioned, a second witness pops up to corroborate the story. But both witnesses claim that while they have evidence to support their story they can't show it right now.

I have to say this looks a lot more like a propaganda campaign than a real life situation.
The way I understood it, the person posting in the atheist section of Reddit was just a friend of the child's family. After it went viral, the father then sent in a collaborative affirmation. I don't think that's proof positive that this isn't a fake, but I also don't take that to me he's an atheist either. What's less clear is why the father would wait until June to share the details. You'd think he was on board with religious schooling and therefore would be proud of their stance on issues like this. Waiting seems to imply disagreement or at least shame in not wanting them outed for their beliefs.
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  #40  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:01 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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So if a Fundie says the Earth is only 6000 years old, it is acceptable to counter with "Were you there?"
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  #41  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:13 PM
Running with Scissors Running with Scissors is offline
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So if a Fundie says the Earth is only 6000 years old, it is acceptable to counter with "Were you there?"
I think the argument there is that the 6000 years number is calculated using the Bible, which to Fundies is unmitigated proof.
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  #42  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:22 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
So if a Fundie says the Earth is only 6000 years old, it is acceptable to counter with "Were you there?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running with Scissors View Post
I think the argument there is that the 6000 years number is calculated using the Bible, which to Fundies is unmitigated proof.
Substitute "Bible" for "Earth" and "the Word of God" for "only 6000 years old".

Last edited by Skywatcher; 04-26-2013 at 02:22 PM..
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  #43  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:26 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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What's less clear is why the father would wait until June to share the details. You'd think he was on board with religious schooling and therefore would be proud of their stance on issues like this. Waiting seems to imply disagreement or at least shame in not wanting them outed for their beliefs.
Read the explanation on the Snopes page it sounds like he didn't know that the school was teaching creationism, and thought it was a good school otherwise, and is planning on removing his daughter from it at after the end of the year. Presumably he is waiting because he doesn't want his daughter punished for any bad publicity the school gets.
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  #44  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:30 PM
Running with Scissors Running with Scissors is offline
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Presumably he is waiting because he doesn't want his daughter punished for any bad publicity the school gets.
It's also very disruptive to a child to switch schools mid-year.
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  #45  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:52 PM
hotflungwok hotflungwok is offline
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Less disruptive than spending a year of their lives having religious propaganda crammed into their heads?
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  #46  
Old 04-26-2013, 03:04 PM
Running with Scissors Running with Scissors is offline
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The parents sent her to a religious school; I suspect they already expected religious propaganda.
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  #47  
Old 04-26-2013, 03:06 PM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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Off topic. But when I was in the fourth grade (called "class" when I am) I once showed my father my geography school book........and he blew his top. Many years later I found out the reason was that the book showed the map of the USSR. It was published in 1993.

Parents......see what your kids are being taught.
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  #48  
Old 04-26-2013, 03:48 PM
tim314 tim314 is offline
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Off topic. But when I was in the fourth grade (called "class" when I am) I once showed my father my geography school book........and he blew his top. Many years later I found out the reason was that the book showed the map of the USSR. It was published in 1993.

Parents......see what your kids are being taught.
My 9th grade history teacher told us a map of the Caspian Sea was actually Great Britain. (She was mistaking the water for land.) It took us some time to convince her she was wrong.
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2013, 03:55 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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Originally Posted by Running with Scissors View Post
The parents sent her to a religious school; I suspect they already expected religious propaganda.
Not necessarily. Many people send their kids to a religious school because its better than a public school and cheaper than a secular private school. They might have misjudged the amount that religion would influence the curriculum. Obviously they should have checked before hand, but I wouldn't conclude that everyone who sends their kid to a religious school does so so their kid can learn fundimentalism.
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  #50  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:19 PM
AnaMen AnaMen is offline
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I really don't get all the "wha-a-a-at? Religion is being taught to children as fact?!?" outrage I've seen in comments on other sites. What the heck else did they think would be taught at a religious school?

Last edited by AnaMen; 04-26-2013 at 04:20 PM..
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