Was this shooting morally justified?

Today’s story is about Jodie*, a 30-year-old restaurant manager. She lives with her 15-year-old daughter, Éimi[sup]†[/sup] in a small house in a somewhat sketchy neighborhood. Between that and the fact that her job regularly requires her to take large amounts of cash to the bank for deposit, Jodie carries a handgun–a Lady Smith 36 revolver, if you care–for which she has the appropriate permits and practices as often as she can.[sup]‡[/sup]

On a rainy winter night, Jodie gets home sometime around the hour of the wolf. Entering her darkened house, she notices that the kitchen light is on, so she goes there rather than straight to bed, thinking that she’ll make a sandwich and take it to bed, and that in the morning she’ll have to have a talk with Éimi about running up the electric bill. All such thoughts cease when she walks into the room, because there is a man she doesn’t know standing in front of her refrigerator; he’s soaking wet and drinking milk from the carton. Rain is streaming in through the kitchen window, which faces the back yard. The man looks at her and smiles. Jodie isn’t sure how big he is; she only knows that he’s a lot bigger than her. She instantly thinks of her beautiful baby girl, asleep in her room, and of the terrible night when Éimi was conceived. In an eyeblink she goes from exhausted to hyper-alert, and before she knows it she has reached into her purse and grabbed, not her cell phone, but her revolver. She pulls it out and assumes a two-handed stance. Trembling slightly, she says:

“Put down the milk, put your hands on your head, and get your ass into the corner facing the wall.”

The man flicks his eyes at the kitchen table, on which is sitting a butcher knife that does not belong to Jodie. The knife is about three steps away from him. The man is no more than ten feet away from Jodie.

“Calm down, lady,” the man says. “This ain’t what it looks like. Put down the gun and we can talk.”

“Fuck you,” Jodie replies, shaking badly now. “Carton down. Hands on head. Get into the corner.”

Shrugging, the man places the carton on the table. Doing so brings him within a foot of the knife.

“Calm down,” he says again. “Put down the gun. I can explain.”

“Explain to police. Do what I say. Last warning.”

“Look, lady, just calm down. Put down that gun before you hurt somebody–”

The man takes a step forward while saying this; Jodie starts firing before he can take another. The first shot misses but not the next four, and the man falls. When his face hits the floor, Jodie calls 911 for an ambulance and the cops.

Ladies and gentlemen: based only in the information Jodie had when she pulled the trigger, was this shooting morally justified?

  • She looks like Eva Marie Saint in On the Waterfont.
    [sup]†[/sup] Jodie is a big fan of the International Phonetic Alphabet. And kind of a nerd.
    [sup]‡[/sup] A girl needs a gun these days, on account of all these rattlesnakes.

Here in Texas, she was justified the moment she saw him.

Justified, if only for drinking milk out of a carton. :smiley:

But the other things I took into account were:

  1. Stranger in the home, obviously isn’t in pain or distress
  2. Strange knife. If Jodie didn’t recognize the knife, out of caution its ok that she assumed he brought it
  3. He didn’t listen to her to de-escalate the situation
  4. His movements brought him closer to a weapon and closer to her

She was justified the moment she saw him, in this state and IMHO in every other way. (Yeah, I’m sure THIS ONE TIME he came running in from the street hearing her daughter in distress and killed a cobra with his bare hands - oh wait, with the knife he happened to be holding - and now he’s really thirsty so he’s drinking her milk. He should have said as much.)

Yeah, justified.

  1. All non-fantasy Skaldtheticals take place in either Memphis or the Philippines.
    b) Unless they take place in Chattanooga. But they certainly don’t take place in Wales.
    ɣ) The question isn’t whether she was LEGALLY justified; it’s whether she was MORALLY justified.
    iv) Damn it, I forgot to include, in the poll, the question of whether Jodie should have put the knife in the guy’s hand before the cops got there. Too late now, though. Ah well, just mentioning it is schmuck bait enough.

All Texas have the moral obligation to shoot on sight. It’s part of the whole image thing.

Hell, I’m from California and I think she was justified.

Yes indeed, justified.

The shootee is either [list=A][li]Up to no good, or Too stupid to live.[/list]First, you go into the corner and put your hands up and otherwise reassure the person pointing a gun at you. Explanations come after that. [/li]
Regards,
Shodan

She’s really adamant about that milk…
In answer to the question, yes.

Shooting to kill is never justified, when a disabling shot will do, which is almost always the case. People who shoot to kill , not just to defend or protect, do so out of their own blood lust. Especially those who buy a gun and imagine (or even fantasize) the scenario in advance, when it becomes premeditated murder.

Yes, justified.

Fool of a Took! The guy can’t put his hands on his head until he puts the milk down.

  1. Please point to the place in the OP where it says the intruder is dead.
  2. Please explain how Jodie should have shot to disable. Where do you want her to aim?

Of course it was justified, morally and legally.

This discussion will devolve into all of the possible ways this could be an innocent stranger in the house. Maybe the daughter’s class play director gave her a ride home after rehearsal, maybe his car broke down after he left, or several other possible scenarios where an innocent soaking wet stranger to mom might have been invited into the house.

But this is the only key issue, not following the direct orders of a person who is holding you at gunpoint, while continuing to move toward another weapon, these are *fatal errors *to make.

The police would not even have this much of a conversation with the wet man. They will insist that you comply immediately or you will be shot. Police do not have the kind of conversations with potentially dangerous people, while pointing guns at them, that you see on TV. Instead it is COMPLY IMMEDIATELY! or you get shot.

“I can explain, I can explain, calm down!” The time to explain is after you have complied. After he is down on the ground and under control of the police,* then *he can explain this silly mix up.

If this is an innocent man, he got himself shot by not obeying orders. He should have complied or tried to flee. You are supposed to allow the perp to flee, you can’t shoot someone who is attempting to get away in most jurisdictions. But you say that the wet man was not complying, he was moving toward another possible weapon, even if the daughter was the one who left the knife sitting on the table.

All the rest is just filler. Comply or be shot.

Hell, I’m from Canada and I think she was justified.

I am going with definitely morally justified, with one very tiny caveat. The knife is unfamiliar, and so is the man. Has Jodie seen enough stuff she does recognize to be sure she hasn’t entered the wrong house?

I’m from Massachusetts, and even here she’d legally be 100% in the clear. Of course she’s morally justified as well.
But what’s with “the terrible night when Éimi was conceived” ? She’s a child of rape?

Justified. The guy is edging closer to her and not listening to her instructions. That makes him both an idiot and probably not a good guy.

I hope the daughter is ok.

If that were the case, I imagine the man’s response would be less “This isn’t what it looks like” than “What the hell are you doing in my house?”

She’s not OK. Didn’t you hear?