The stubbornness of old people (my parents)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Dad is 80 and has Parkinson disease. He doesn’t shake much, but he is no longer agile (physically or cognitively). Moreover, he is now prone to occasional dizziness and has had several fainting episodes over the past year because of related blood pressure fluctuations. But his lifetime hobby has been home improvement/maintenance, plenty of which involves using a ladder - and although his energy level is way down, he steadfastly refuses to stop using a ladder.

Mom’s in the same boat. She doesn’t have PD, but she’s just…slow. Her arms and legs move at a turtle pace. And her balance is fading: she recently told her doctor that she feels unsteady using the stairs without keeping a firm grip on the railing. But she continues to use a stepstool to reach things stored in high places.

Google “elderly ladder falls,” and you’ll get a zillion hits. The problem is a big one, and it’s been studied extensively.

My siblings and I have expressed our concerns as diplomatically as possible, suggested solutions (e.g. moving high-stored items to locations that can be reached without a stepstool), and offered to help (we can come and help move things help build/install reachable shelves for them, etc.).

It’s all falling on deaf ears.

One of these days I fear I will receive a call saying that one of them fell from a ladder/stepstool, was too mentally slow to perceive the fall quickly, too physically slow to get their arm out to arrest their fall, and too physically weak to avoid breaking half a dozen bones when they landed on their hip/shoulder/head.

It’s one things to want to remain independent; I get that. It’s something else entirely to refuse to make any concessions that require admitting diminished capability. I hope I can be more open-minded about changes if/when I get to be 80.

God help us when it comes time to take their car keys away…:frowning:

2

Based on your description in your post, it sounds like it’s past time for that. :frowning:

3

We’re seeing the same thing with our respective folks. My mom is a widow who lives in the middle of nowhere with really crappy cell reception. If she fell down the stairs, it could be days till someone knew, unless the sister who lives nearby happened to go to her house. Still, we can’t convince Mom to carry a phone (not her cell, but one of the house extensions.)

My MIL has macular degeneration and is, for all intents and purposes, pretty much blind. Yet she managed to convince her eye doctor to sign off on her getting a new license. Seriously?!?!? It’s only good for a year and I think she’s resigned to giving it up then, but in the interim, what if she hurts herself or someone else? And it’s not like she *has *to drive - my FIL is still fit enough to manage that, as well as the son who lives with them.

My FIL has always been an extremely active man - he’s built a bunch of their houses literally from hand digging the basement up to shingling the roof. But he’s 85 and he just had both of his knees replaced. Yet last week, he was up on the roof checking a vent. WTF?!?!? We live 800 miles away, so we’re not any help. And even if we were closer, he refuses to ask for help - he can do it himself, dammit!

I understand they don’t want to admit how old they are, especially considering how active their lives have been, but when you’re in your mid-80s, you need to recognize that there are a few things you need to let someone else do. Like one thing I’ll give my mom - she sold her riding mower and now hires a lawn service.

I know I’ll be much more reasonable in 20 years. No, really, I will!! :stuck_out_tongue:

4

It’s a judgment call, but some would certainly agree with you. At best, it’s not going to be very far in the future.

5

You should try straight up being honest with them. Brutally honest. It may achieve nothing in the end, but a least you’ll have let it all out.

You need to be tactful and respectful, of course. But you could start by taking them out to lunch (public place, no shouting etc by either party please!). Then just tell them, “Whether you want to hear it or not, I find I really, really, need to express myself. Sorry, but you’ll have to listen.”

Then, let it all out. Ask them what they imagine will happen should either take a tumble? How much injury they will sustain, how much pain, how long the recovery, the resulting on going pains, limited mobility, length of hospital stay, cost of hospital stay plus physio. Talk about how you want to see them cruise into even older age still mobile and energetic. Do they understand that to do so involves being realistic about the risks they are taking, avoiding falls etc. time to employ wisdom over stubbornness. Point out that nursing homes are filled with people who would still be mobile, and in their own homes, if only they hadn’t been so stubborn and not insisted on … Climbing that ladder, lifting that heavy thing, shovelling that snow, etc. Maybe point out that there will be a whole lot of time for them to regret these things, AFTERWARD! Then tell them you have always admired their ability to think things through and choose wisely, thereby avoid a lot of the traps that the less intelligent routinely fall into. Etc, etc, you get the idea.

Do NOT expect resolution. When you’re done, thank them very much for listening. Tell them you needed to get that off your chest after hearing of friend’s parents whose lives have been forever changed, and not in a good way, from a simple fall that could so easily have been avoided. Tell them you’ll always respect their choices but you hope they’ll consider your words at least. Knowing your only concern is their continued active life, and well being. Tell them you respect their intelligence enough to not breach the subject again.

Then, move on to brighter topics, and just let it lie. They may come around. Give them time. Someone they know WILL take a fall and end up in hospital, very likely. That combination, may be what it takes.

Stick to your word and don’t mention it again. If y’all stop bringing it up, you may find they do!

This isn’t an easy thing to navigate, I wish you all Good Luck!

6

I’m really not looking forward to doing that with Dad Neville, either. Fortunately, he is still able to drive fairly well.

He and Mom live in a small town. This would be a problem if they needed regular help from either me or my sister- there are no jobs there that we or our husbands could have, so we can’t live there. I have broached the topic of someday moving to a senior apartment here in Pittsburgh with them, but they don’t like that idea at all. I can kind of see why- they have their friends where they are, they know where everything is in their town. And I probably wouldn’t like it if Lil’ Neville wanted me to move to a small town somewhere to be near her. (I feel pretty much the opposite of how they do about cities vs small towns) But it’s still going to make things difficult when they start having trouble living on their own.

7

Oh, and I’ve pretty much totally given up on trying to get them to try new foods. I have better luck getting my very picky toddler to try new foods.

8

Thanks for the advice, but this pretty accurately describes what we’ve already been through. My sister and her husband (who live near our parents and see them at least a couple times a week) have been bringing it up with my parents in spontaneous ways for a while now - and after some discussion with my sibs last week, I spent a few days crafting an email to my parents that expressed our concerns, provided some links to outside information, and contrasted me being on a ladder with them being on a ladder (I’m less likely to fall, if I do I’m more likely to get my feet back under me or arrest my fall with my arms, and if I do land awkwardly I’m less likely to break bones, if I do break bones I’m less likely to die from it). Most of all I tried to propose solutions and workarounds, and made it clear that we’ll do our best to help them under any circumstances - but that we’d much rather help them figure out how to get by without ladders and stepstools than figure out how to deal with one of them being in the ICU for an extended period because of a fall. I pledged to speak my piece just once and then shut up about it.

I sent the email Monday morning, and that afternoon got a reply from my dad that basically said “thanks for your concern, we’ll be careful but we can’t eliminate all risk, and we’re not gonna sit in a rocking chair and watch our lives go by.” No mention about taking steps to simply reduce risk while still maintaining independence (e.g. rearranging storage to more convenient heights). Not the outcome I hoped for, but now I need to stick to my word and shut up about it with them.

I tend to see a lot of things in life according to probability, and this is one of those things. Their age/health makes them more likely to fall and get hurt, but it doesn’t make it a certainty. Each time they get up on a ladder or stepstool is a roll of the dice, and with a little luck, they won’t roll snake eyes before they die of something else.

9

Depending on your relationship with them, their attitudes in general, etc. etc. your final 3-sentence paragraph there could be its own separate email or conversation. It’s very well-phrased.

Concur that anyone whose “arms and legs move at a turtle pace” should not be driving on public streets. If a child ran out, another car swerved, the light suddently changed etc. etc. her foot simply would not be able to move to the brake pedal fast enough.

10

I totally feel your pain. My in-laws are turning 90 this year. :eek: MIL has advanced dementia, but still thinks she is in perfect mental health, and you can’t reason with her at all. FIL has most of his faculties but his decision-making has gotten increasingly poor. They are both frail and not in good health. The latest is that they may be kicked out of their apartment in the facility because MIL refuses to bathe.

When they were living on their own, into their 80s, the kids all knew they needed to be in some kind of senior living place. MIL was not having any of it. We knew then that it would take some kind of medical emergency to get them out of their house. Sure enough, FIL got pneumonia and was in the hospital for weeks for that and related conditions. It was horrible for everyone.

Machine Elf, I sincerely hope your parents come around before something drastic happens. Getting old generally just sucks for everyone involved.

11

In dealing with these issue, you must first respect that the number one desire that is motivating your older relatives is the desire to lead independent lives. Ladders and step stools and cars are just the ticky-tacky day-to-day details. You need to be able to address their goal of independence with suggestions and solutions (helpers, minions?) rather than telling them what they can’t/shouldn’t do. Don’t tell them what to do, ask them what they want to do and what can be done to make it easier on them. There will still likely be some pushback - a lot a people don’t really have experience with delegating tasks they are used to doing, etc. - but this is the type of discussion you should be having.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Do you have children currently? Would you appreciate your children coming at you with how you dress/eat/behave/decide in your day-to-day life, as if they know better than you? Of course you wouldn’t! You know better than them, don’t you? You are used to being the one to tell them how to dress/eat/behave/decide!

12

My grandfather was like that. He worked since he was 13 so the fact that he was in his mid-70s, had umpteen heart attacks, etc wasn’t going to convince him to take it easy. He liked to sit on his porch. In the middle of summer. In the Central Valley where it regularly got above the 100s.

I explained my concerns and that was it. He was stubborn. If he didn’t want to listen to me he wouldn’t. No sense in bringing it up over and over. He died about three years ago next month after tending to his garden. Oddly, I wasn’t upset (more than one would be losing their grandfather). It’s where he wanted to be. For him, why go on living if you’re cooped up in the house not doing what you love? Just sitting and wasting away? That’s no way to live.

13

My dad is 89 and his keys were taken away last year.

He bought himself a red three-wheel scooter with a headlight, turn signals, etc.

14

Interim measures:

I have no suggestions for keeping your dad off (or rather on) the roof, but for indoors, there are railed stepladders that can lessen risk of falling:

http://www.mysmartbuy.com/p-138-4-Step-Safety-Ladder.html

You can add railings to stairways if both sides do not already have them; and of course there are bathroom railings and grab-bars galore. Also fold-down railings to make it easier to get in and out of bed.

There are tons of devices in mobility/disability catalogs; browse and if anything jumps out at you as possibly useful.

15

You all sound like my children. My problem is that I can’t face moving (we have lived in this house for 43 years and it seems to accrete “stuff”) and cannot decide which kid to impose ourselves on (they live in three different places, Boston, NYC, and Seattle).

16

I voluntarily gave up my DL … Scared myself by forgetting what sequence of things to do turning right… at 60 mph. I did pull over and them was all right,but went to the DPS the next week. I still forget what sequence things go in,but the power chair is much slower. Cooking/prep is still iffy,sometimes I sit in the kitchen and cry because I don’t know what to do next :frowning:

17

Something that might work for you (it helped with my parents): when you’re back there, find a reliable neighbor kid (and to them, ‘kid’ can be anybody up to about 30) who can help with stuff like this.

Then quietly tell your father “Dad, this is a good kid, who’s trying to learn all the building/handyman skills that you have down so well. So have him come over whenever you’re going to do something like this, so he can learn. And teach him – don’t you do it – tell him how it should be done, and then make him do it himself. And then tell him what he did right/wrong”.

This gives your father an altruistic motive to have someone else do some this stuff for him. (Even if he insists on doing it himself to show how it’s done, at least there is a healthy young person present to catch him if he falls, or at least pick him up afterwards.) And your father retains his independence (‘I could still do it myself, but I’ll wait so I can teach the kid how to do this.’) He knows more than anybody how much harder stuff is than it used to be.

Maybe enlist your mother’s help: She can say “Dear, wait until that kid comes over to do that – you know how eager he is to learn how to do this stuff”.

It’ll cost you – you’ll have to pay this kid, or maybe subsidize what your parents pay him, but this seems to be a way to get what you want, without nagging or undercutting your parents independence. And given your FIL’s ability, a young person with the right aptitude could pick up some really marketable skills from this.

18

If you are in the US please consult with someone at your local city or county Area Agency on Aging. They will be able to help. At the very least they can help you apply for disability through Social Security.

If you are alone in the world it may be time to move to assisted living where meals are prepared and there are people to help in the event of a fall. You should consider who you want to control your finances.

You should write or update your Durable Power of Attorney.

19

I probably should have mentioned that they live in a retirement community, and the neighbor “kids” are at least 55… They’re in Ocala, FL - pretty much the whole city is a retirement community. And they absolutely HATE paying anyone to do something they can “do themselves.”

Frankly, I was surprised when FIL quit doing his oil changes in favor of taking the car to quick change places. But they don’t ask for help, and it’s a struggle for them to accept our help when we visit. I was amazed that my MIL let me make the pumpkin pie for Thanksgiving - while she made the other 2, of course. :rolleyes:

It’s kinda like looking at my husband in 20 years - at least I’ve convinced him we should hire someone to clean our gutters this year. One step at a time.

20

I finally convinced my parents to hire someone too. Dad’s back is still bruised from the last time he went on a ladder (second fall in 2 years) so I think that helped. Mom had to step up take the initiative to call The Man, but the poor thing also now has to listen to dad bitch about it. In the long run I know he will be extremely relieved that the gutters and windows are done (he’s put off the gutters for like 10 months).

My folks are only 64 and 65, not really old. But dad’s body is very broken down. Unfortunately it’s broken down from years of being a tough, strong guy. So it’s very hard to get his brain to match his body.