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  #1  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:31 AM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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My Mother is My Lover....

Ick. I'm flipping through the channels-I leave for work in an hour. I land on Jerry Springer. You know what to expect, right?

But...um...okay, this woman's boyfriend is furious with her. He found out that the woman is sleeping with her own adult daughter. They're lovers. Her own fucking daughter?
The daughter asks Mom to marry her?

Is that even LEGAL?

Look, yinz know I'm an open minded soul....but like, this is too sick, even for me.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:38 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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Gotta admit, that's a weird one.

But that's what Springer does. Sideshow, medicine-act freak shows via the mass media.

There's nothing different between that and 'flipper boy' or the dog-faced lady.
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:45 AM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Oh, definitely. I'm not easily shocked by his show.

Just by the idea that a woman could give birth to a person, and then find themselves years later having SEX with that person, having raised them, and that the girl proposed to her own mother?
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:49 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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When will all of this discrimination stop??!! Are they hurting anybody? Or are they just offending your antiquated Biblical morality? Well, at least homosexuality is becoming more widely accepted. And S&M, water sports, and other types of perverse behavior seem to be making a dent into popular morality. But, alas, the bestialites, necrophiliacs and incesters will just have to wait until society catches up with them. What a cryin' shame!
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:50 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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Well, in all honesty, I wouldn't invest a lot of capital believing what he puts on. I'm certain some of it (all of it?) is just made up to generate just the reaction you're showing. The more shocking it is, the more people will tune in tomorrow.

And to certain sections of the public consciousness it's always a good time to believe that different folks are immoral. You can't go wrong pandering to that.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:51 AM
gobear gobear is offline
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Great, that's the episode scheduled for noon on channel 20, so I'll be watching. One thing about being unemployed-lots of time for watching crappy daytime TV while working on cover letters and resumes.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:00 AM
Coldfire Coldfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut
When will all of this discrimination stop??!! Are they hurting anybody? Or are they just offending your antiquated Biblical morality? Well, at least homosexuality is becoming more widely accepted. And S&M, water sports, and other types of perverse behavior seem to be making a dent into popular morality. But, alas, the bestialites, necrophiliacs and incesters will just have to wait until society catches up with them. What a cryin' shame!
Note to self: politely decline JJ's birthday party invitation...
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:22 AM
tiny ham tiny ham is offline
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Originally posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut
Well, at least homosexuality is becoming more widely accepted. And S&M, water sports, and other types of perverse behavior seem to be making a dent into popular morality.
Note to self: RSVP J.J.'s birthday party invitation, pronto.
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:02 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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I re-read my own post and was shocked! The stuff that comes out when you post on a Monday morning before your first can of Pepsi.

Note to self: Become friends with Jarbabyj. Pronto!
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:07 AM
Sterra Sterra is offline
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Water sports? Geez JJ you must be some sort of a freak.
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:18 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Originally posted by Sterra
Water sports? Geez JJ you must be some sort of a freak.
Well, I'll probably get married at some point in the next 2 years (although I'm not sure to whom yet), and there are some things I want to try first. BTW, necrophilia and bestiality are NOT 2 of them.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:27 AM
manhattan manhattan is offline
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Oh, feh. I went to the official site. It's her adopted daughter. Hell, Woody Allen was doing that five years ago.

Pikers.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2001, 01:58 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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Adopted or natural, still illegal in most states. So they probably happen to be in one of those that forgot to mention adoptees in the statute.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2001, 02:20 PM
SuaSponte SuaSponte is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sterra
Water sports? Geez JJ you must be some sort of a freak.
How could my mother have let me spend so much time as a child playing Marco Polo?!! I'll never get passed the shame.

Sua
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2001, 02:21 PM
Fiver Fiver is offline
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JRDelirious:
Quote:
Adopted or natural, still illegal in most states. So they probably happen to be in one of those that forgot to mention adoptees in the statute.
Correct me if I'm wrong, two women marrying each other is still illegal in every state (except maybe Vermont?), regardless if one is the other's daughter, natural or adopted.

Is it illegal for a mother to marry a son or a father to marry a daughter in every state?

Siblings?

First cousins?
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  #16  
Old 08-06-2001, 04:20 PM
Miller Miller is offline
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Fiver: I don't think the women in question are married to each other, they're just sleeping with each other. As for that being illegal, I have trouble figuring out how exactly you would prosecute someone for this, if they're both consenting adults. Who would be the plaintiff?
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2001, 04:37 PM
jayjay jayjay is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miller
Fiver: I don't think the women in question are married to each other, they're just sleeping with each other. As for that being illegal, I have trouble figuring out how exactly you would prosecute someone for this, if they're both consenting adults. Who would be the plaintiff?
The state. Given sufficient concern over the reaction of the Mrs. Grundies of the world, the state is more than happy to press charges on grounds of sodomy, deviant sexual intercourse, and general morals charges. If it weren't, the sodomy laws would have served no useful (in the eyes of the state) purpose, as consenting partners are not generally going to file charges.

Michael Hardwick was charged with violating Georgia's sodomy laws in 1984(?), after police entered his home on an unrelated warrant and found him in the act with another man. The state later decided not to prosecute, but it does demonstrate one way in which these charges are filed. (Hardwick later sued the state of Georgia for violation of his right to privacy, a case which made it to the US Supreme Court and was decided in favor of the state in 1986, which means that the official precedent of the US up till Romer v. Evans was that homosexuals have no reasonable expectation of privacy in their intimate relationships).

And people wonder why we get all huffy about things...

jayjay
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:02 PM
Heath Doolin Heath Doolin is offline
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Ok I got to ask Jar

Was he the pitcher or the catcher?
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:03 PM
Heath Doolin Heath Doolin is offline
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Jar=Jay

Woot 700 posts.

Where is my 10 year supply of Turtle Wax?
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  #20  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:08 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut
water sports
[Kent Brockman]
From now on the showers we take will be GOLDEN showers!
[/Kent Brockman]
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:11 PM
jayjay jayjay is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heath Doolin
Ok I got to ask Jay (editor's note: )

Was he the pitcher or the catcher?
I'm assuming you mean Michael Hardwick. To tell the absolute truth, I don't know offhand. And I'm not sure if it would be possible to find out online, given that all of this happened pre-Web.

If, on the other hand, you're asking about me, having found yourself absolutely enchanted by my online presence and wit, I play utility.

jayjay (dragging unrelated and inappropriate flirting into new frontiers every day)
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  #22  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:13 PM
jayjay jayjay is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by dropzone
[Kent Brockman]
From now on the showers we take will be GOLDEN showers!
[/Kent Brockman]
Pfui. Zeus and Danae were into that ages ago...

jayjay
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:17 PM
waterj2 waterj2 is offline
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From Bowers v. Hardwick: "The Constitution does not confer a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy."

From Romer v. Evans: "The State's principal argument that Amendment 2 puts gays and lesbians in the same position as all other persons by denying them special rights is rejected as implausible."

I don't really see that Romer v. Evans changes the legality of sodomy laws, which are still on the books in several states, including my home state of Massachusetts (which is otherwise quite good with homosexual issues). So I think you guys still have no reasonable expectation of privacy in your relationships under federal law. State constitutions may confer that right in some places.
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  #24  
Old 08-06-2001, 05:53 PM
stofsky stofsky is offline
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I just wanna say, Guin, that your OP gave me a vision of my ancient, redneck mother-in-law naked, and I now hate you.

Thanks for the great possibility that for the next two weeks or more, whenever my wife's laying on the bed naked, I'll envision my horrible MIL's body laying on top of her.

Really, thanks.
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  #25  
Old 08-06-2001, 06:26 PM
Lamia Lamia is offline
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Originally posted by Jonathan Chance
Well, in all honesty, I wouldn't invest a lot of capital believing what he puts on. I'm certain some of it (all of it?) is just made up to generate just the reaction you're showing. The more shocking it is, the more people will tune in tomorrow.
A couple of years back there was an article in The Stranger by a woman who had appeared on the Springer show. She was roped into it by an acquaintance who dreamed of being on TV. Their story (they were lesbian lovers, but one of them was cheating on the other with a man) was completely fabricated. The author of the piece also said that when she was talking with other guests after the show it came out that all their stories were bogus too. The show's staff also provided trailer trash chic clothes and heavily coached everyone before they went on the air, encouraging them to be as dramatic as possible.

I think it's safe to say that nothing on Springer is 100% true, and that precious little has any truth to it at all.
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  #26  
Old 08-06-2001, 06:41 PM
obfusciatrist obfusciatrist is offline
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As long as they are both consenting adults and the activity began while they were both consenting adults I have zero problem with it.

I wouldn't want to watch it, but I have zero problem with it.
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  #27  
Old 08-06-2001, 08:49 PM
johnson johnson is offline
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Are you talking about adults going on Springer, obfusciatrist?
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  #28  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:11 PM
GargoyleWB GargoyleWB is online now
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quote:"...Is that even LEGAL? "

C'mon, you know that's not the real question on our minds! What we really need to know is....were they hot?
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  #29  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:14 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fiver
JRDelirious:
Quote:
Adopted or natural, still illegal in most states. So they probably happen to be in one of those that forgot to mention adoptees in the statute.
Correct me if I'm wrong, two women marrying each other is still illegal in every state (except maybe Vermont?), regardless if one is the other's daughter, natural or adopted.

Is it illegal for a mother to marry a son or a father to marry a daughter in every state?

Siblings?

First cousins?
I was not referring to the same-sex marriage, but to the consenting-adult incest -- since in some jurisdictions it has fallen into unenforcement, or as I mentioned, the statute may not clearly include adult adopted or step-relations among the definitions, though while they're minors some other law applies.

All states forbid marriage, AND define as incest sexual intercourse, between direct ascendants/descendants, siblings (full or half) and uncle/aunt-niece/nephew.

30 States do not allow marriage between first cousins, North Carolina only bans it if they're cousins on both parents' sides. But, they DO recognized a legally-entered marriage from any of the 19 other states ("full faith and credit")


jrd
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  #30  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:34 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Ah...I wouldn't be surprised. It's just the thought a parent and child falling in love...ICK.

First off, fine, it's her adopted daughter...but how long ago did she adopt her? I mean, that's just psychologically sick...


It was mostly just the thought...icky icky icky! I mean, you love your mom, but just don't like, love your mom!
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  #31  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:36 PM
Fiver Fiver is offline
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waterj2:
Quote:
From Bowers v. Hardwick: "The Constitution does not confer a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy."
Incidentally, the "Bowers" referred to in that case is former Georgia attorney general Mike Bowers, who was famously intolerant of sexual deviants. In addition to prosecuting the sodomy case, he also fired a lesbian member of his staff...because she was a lesbian.

Then Bowers threw his hat in the ring for the 1998 Georgia gubernatorial race (as a Republican, not of course that that's indicative of anything).

Then it came out that he'd been cheating on his wife for 10 years with another woman, violating in the process some of the same antiquated blue laws he'd used against Georgia's gays during his time as attorney general.

A quick retirement from the race and public life, and a divorce, soon followed.
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2001, 09:47 PM
Morgyn Morgyn is offline
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It happens in the best families, too . . .

There once lived a man named Oedipus Rex,
You may have heard about his odd complex.
His name appears in Freud's index
'Cause he loved his mother.

--Tom Lehrer, "Oedipus Rex"
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2001, 10:17 PM
gobear gobear is offline
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I saw the episode in question and, trust me, nobody on that show was hot, or even had a full set of teeth. Is there some rule women must weigh at least 300 pounds or need dentures to get on Springer.

What I loved were the 64-year-old transexual who REALLY did not need to be wearing a revealing dress (my stomach still hasn't settled from that ghastly vision) and the screaming little queen who ditched his ugly-ass boyfriend for the old tranny. Anti-gay crusaders could use that segment as a recruiting tool, it was that vile.
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:10 PM
obfusciatrist obfusciatrist is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnson
Are you talking about adults going on Springer, obfusciatrist?
Well, that too. But if mothers and daughters want to practice their lily-licking together and they are both consenting adults, I don't care about that either.
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:20 PM
Esprix Esprix is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut

Well, at least homosexuality is becoming more widely accepted. And S&M, water sports, and other types of perverse behavior seem to be making a dent into popular morality. But, alas, the bestialites, necrophiliacs and incesters will just have to wait until society catches up with them. What a cryin' shame!
You know, you may have posted this as a funny, but it wasn't. Even in jest, linking homosexuality unequivocably with S&M, water sports, beastiality, necorphilia and incest (not to mention calling it "perverse") ticks me off. (And if you hadn't posted a half-hearted explanation, I'd have assumed you were a bigotted little troll.)

Might I suggest switcing to decaf?

Esprix
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:37 PM
Badtz Maru Badtz Maru is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Esprix
Quote:
Originally posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut

Well, at least homosexuality is becoming more widely accepted. And S&M, water sports, and other types of perverse behavior seem to be making a dent into popular morality. But, alas, the bestialites, necrophiliacs and incesters will just have to wait until society catches up with them. What a cryin' shame!
You know, you may have posted this as a funny, but it wasn't. Even in jest, linking homosexuality unequivocably with S&M, water sports, beastiality, necorphilia and incest (not to mention calling it "perverse") ticks me off. (And if you hadn't posted a half-hearted explanation, I'd have assumed you were a bigotted little troll.)

Might I suggest switcing to decaf?

Esprix
So you are saying that homosexuals are somehow morally superior to people who are into S&M or water sports?
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2001, 12:19 AM
Esprix Esprix is offline
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Hardly. But some would have the communities linked in an unfavorable fashion inextricably from each other, thus providing their bigotted beliefs more fuel, and giving all those named communities the title "sick, wrong and immoral," when, in and of themselves, none of them are (arguably, of course). When people say, "Water sports are bad," I don't like that followed up with the broad and inaccurate statement, "And all homosexuals are involved in water sports."

If we're going to fight ignorance, let's at least be thorough about it.

Esprix
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2001, 07:02 AM
FarmerOak FarmerOak is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by manhattan
Oh, feh. I went to the official site. It's her adopted daughter. Hell, Woody Allen was doing that five years ago.

Pikers.
Regardless of what you think of Allen and his wife (and the mother of his child) please remember that:

He never married Mia Farrow

and

He never adopted Soon-Yi Previn, who had a father who was and is involved in her life.

If we are going to live in a society which acknowledges ONLY male-female marriage and NO other non-consanguinous relationship, Allen is guilty of no crime except creepiness, and that only in the mind of some, not all.

I am not defending Allen, but merely illuminating the law. Please keep this in mind when you flame me (yet again) and that it is inappropriate to attack me personally when I merely point out facts which you have ignored or distorted.
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  #39  
Old 08-07-2001, 07:08 AM
Neidhart Neidhart is offline
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Rhode Island at one time (I don't know if they still do) allowed uncle-niece or aunt-nephew marriages.
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2001, 08:39 AM
Fiver Fiver is offline
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Esprix, I'm calling you out!

There's only one "t" in "bigoted."
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2001, 08:57 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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While my initial post was meant to be funny, the tone of Esprix's post forces me to respond in a more serious manner. I discriminate based only on one criterion: Is someone or something being harmed (without consent or knowledge) by your actions? So keeping that in mind, all sexual preferences and behaviors were considered immoral or perverse at some point in history. A hundred years ago, heterosexual sex prior to marriage was considered immoral (and in some circles it still is). 20 years ago, homosexuality was considered immoral (and in some circles it still is). Perhaps in 10 years, golden showers will be a very popular sexual practice. And I might be on this message board with a sado-masochist who'll take offense to my mentioning S&M in the same thread as homosexuality, or heterosexuality for that matter.

Point is, I will not put any preference or practice on a pedestal. You get no special treatment from me! And when I'm making a joke, nothing is sacred. Think about it, if I treated heterosexuality or homosexuality or autosexuality as something special, it would be just like discriminating against everything else.

And Esprix's fear that some fool might somehow linking homosexuals to sado-masochists or necrophiliacs because of my post is not a reasonable one. Only an extremely uneducated person or a bigot of the highest magnitude would ever make this connection. And I have more important things to do than worry about editing what I say for the benefit of these people.
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2001, 09:18 AM
Searching For Truth Searching For Truth is offline
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*giggles*

Man! I've got to applaud Jackknifed Juggernaut on that last one for the sheer articulate-ness of it. (What's the noun form of articulate?)

IMO, I think the whole deal is gross. With your mom? Adopted or not, it's still your mother figure.

Take a minute and imagine getting it on with YOUR mom. Guys, imagine with your dad.

Isn't that disgusting? Even a little bit?
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2001, 11:19 PM
Esprix Esprix is offline
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When every time for 30 some odd years you mention your opposite-sex partner and people immediately ask you about your "deviant sexual practices," told you were going to Hell, immediately grabbed their children for fear you would reach out and sodomize them on the spot, or threatened your life, then maybe you'll understand why I found your list so non-humorous. (Yes, all these things have happened to me, and no, I'm not playing the "more discriminated against than thou" game.) Yes, only the truly bigoted (thank you, Fiver) and ignorant would agree with your post, and yes, you meant it as a joke, but without that explanation, why take the time to perpetuate bigotry and ignorance?

I found the remarks unfunny. YMMV.

Esprix
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  #44  
Old 08-07-2001, 11:42 PM
Sterra Sterra is offline
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  #45  
Old 08-08-2001, 08:48 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Esprix
...Yes, all these things have happened to me...
Well, I suppose perspective usually determines what people find funny.

But I am a little disturbed by one of your last comments: "Yes, only the truly bigoted and ignorant would agree with your post, and yes, you meant it as a joke..."

I'm not sure what you mean by this. There's really nothing that I've written that a bigot would agree with. I'm saying that only a bigot or highly uneducated person would make the connection that homosexuality is analogous to S&M or necrophilia. But I never stated this or even implied this in any way.

I just wanted to clarify that.
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  #46  
Old 08-08-2001, 10:06 AM
Searching For Truth Searching For Truth is offline
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It seems to me that Esprix took more offense to this than was meant. Maybe we should all just apologize and hug? I'm sure Jackknifed Juggernaut didn't mean to piss anyone off. I didn't find his comment hilarious-I just shook my head with a smile and didn't think much of it.

Esprix, I understand where you're coming from, but...can we all just call this a draw? Say 'I love you' and leave it at that?
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  #47  
Old 08-08-2001, 10:45 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Searching For Truth is right. Sometimes I drag things a little too far to make certain that my POV is being properly represented. Hey, nobody's perfect, right? But I'm finished here. I wish everyone the best!
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  #48  
Old 08-08-2001, 11:04 AM
Myrr21 Myrr21 is offline
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Well, at least homosexuality is becoming more widely accepted. And S&M, water sports, and other types of perverse behavior seem to be making a dent into popular morality.
Huh. I read these as two separate sentences. As far as I can tell, "and other types of perverse behavior" modifies only S&M and water sports--not homosexuality.

So...am I missing something here, or is the objection just to mentioning the three as things people are "morally outraged" over? I don't see any other linking...
*shrug*
My reading comprehension must be deteriorating
I'm not trying to drag up the issue again; I'm just curious as to what I missed
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