One end run around this, although a complicated one, would be for ALL of the people whose posts Esprix includes in his book to be given a contributing author credit in return for some token compensation like $1. In effect, the book would technically be a group project, with everyone publishing their own work.
This is… ahem… a lay opinion, of course. Legal eagles reading this are invited to shoot my idea full of holes if it’s wrong.
No way dude. I want a cool 10% for that contribution of mine four posts up.
And another 5% for this one.
pan
I’ve got an honest question and I want to emphasize that I’m really, honestly curious and I really dont’ know. I’m not trying to be a bitch.
Is there anyway to convince a gay man that someone isn’t gay?
Here’s a conversation I had with a gay friend of mine:
Jarbaby: God [hotguy] is hot.
Jeff: Don’t worry about it, he’s gay.
Jarbaby: He says he isn’t.
Jeff: cover.
Jarbaby: He’s married to a woman.
Jeff: Doesn’t matter. I can tell.
Jarbaby: He has kids! He’s been married for ten years. He slept with Jenny before that!
Jeff: Doesn’t matter. Gay.
Perhaps jeff just WANTS [hotguy] to be gay, but I’ve experienced this on more than one ocassion, and I’ve never noticed a gay guy admit “OH, ok, then maybe I’m wrong. I just thought he was”. They just counteract every arguement with “doesn’t matter”. Am I just hanging around with stubborn gay guys? And what WOULD convince you that a guy was straight…because it seems sexual intercourse with a woman ain’t doin’ it.
jarbaby
Let’s say you’re a straight male, and you have a friend who you know is gay, and this friend knows that you’re straight, and you both know that the other is a aware of your sexual orientation. Let’s say you’re at this friends house, and you’re sitting down using his computer, and he starts giving you a back massage (for no apparent reason). Is he hitting on you/trying to seduce you and convert you? Would there be another reason for such an act (for example, maybe gay people are just really friendly)? Do gay men routinely try to “challenge” themselves by trying to convert straight men? If I make jokes with a gay friend about sexual acts, could this be taken as an invitation?
I haven’t read any of the previous “ask the gay guy” threads so forgive me if it’s already been covered. Also, if I’ve used any offensive terminology let me know.
Vanilla, your friend has some really rigidly narrow definitions of sexuality. Few people are 100 percent exclusively gay or straight. The vast majority of humanity swings on a sliding scale of bisexuality. It is perfectly possible to be primarily homosexual and still get a woody with a woman; else, where did all the gay parents come from?
Jarbabyj, it could be that your friend, Jeff, is indulging in wishful thinking, but it is also possible that his intuition is picking up telltale traces of samesex attraction that the man in question might be not consciously aware of, or be trying to repress. Just because a guy is married doesn’t mean he’s not attracted to men. Check out the AOL chat rooms, and see how many guys are in the “Married but Curious” or"Bi Married Guys" rooms, not to mention that most of the guys you find cruising at rest stops or lurking in bath houses are married, closeted guys.
C_goat, I don’t know how close your friendship with this guy is, and maybe he’s just giving you a friendly massage. If the backrub is making you uncomfortable, tell your friend so. Generally, any gay man with half a brain ought to know that a backrub is one of the most obvious methods of seduction, and will give even the most homo-friendly straight guy the heebie-jeebies. On the other hand, if you know your bud is just being friendly, then lie back and enjoy the back rub. Men give much better back rubs, just because they have stronger hands.
As for the “gay guys routinely challenging straight guys,” most gay guys know not to mess with straight guys, because even if the straight guy decides to walk on the wild side, it never works out because he’s a STRAIGHT GUY! That’s not to say that there aren’t some gay men who like to bag het boys, but they are a minority.
As far as joking with your friend about sex, that’s between y’all. Every friendship has its own parameters. However, if you’ve been teasing him by hinting that you could be had, you might have inadvertently given him the wrong signals, hence the backrub.
Esprix, sorry for butting into your thread, but as one of the lowly minions to The Gay Guy, I thought I had something to contribute.
{Edited for coding. Lynn}
[Edited by Lynn Bodoni on 05-02-2001 at 11:35 PM]
Yikes! Cleanup in aisle 5!
Oh, goboy. I fully understand that. I know that a lot of guys are hiding their feelings. My question is, (and again, I may be hanging out with the wrong gay guys) why will you never admit defeat?
I went out with a guy for eight months in college, swore to GOD he was straight…loved him dearly, told everyone who ‘wondered’ that I was SURE of his straightness. Guess what? He was gay as a chaise lounge. So did I tell everyone “Well, he’s straight, he just doesn’t know it. He’s fooling himself”. No, I accepted that he made a big ass fool of me and said “Yep, I was wrong.”
My friend (not Jeff) who is gay, was hitting on a guy at some party for HOURS, and when finally the guy said “Look, I’m straight,” my friend huffed and said, “He’s gay…he just won’t admit it.”
SOMETIMES…you’re wrong…see what I’m saying?
jarbaby
jarbabyj:
I think one of the problems is that we gay men get into the “Myth of the Gaydar”. We actually believe that we have gaydar rather than attributing it to a general alertness to certain signals. Unfortunately, very, very rarely are these signals absolutely exclusive to homosexuality.
I, personally, am more than willing to admit that I’m wrong when I make a gaydar diagnosis. I’ve noticed that my gaydar is, about 80% of the time, wishful thinking anyway. Hell, if every guy I ever got “signals” from were actually gay, we wouldn’t be a minority!
jayjay
That is the classic example of utter cluelesness. Even if your friend’s gaydar was ringing like a bell, to persist in hitting on some guy for hours is just rude and self-defeating. Whether the man was gay or not, it seems clear he wasn’t interested.
If a guy says he’s straight, that should settle the question (except in malicious gossip after he’s left the room). Your gay friends need to learn to take “no” for an answer.
I think, and correct me if I’m wrong (because I’m not a gay man), that this may be a result of being ‘newly gay’, as in ‘just outed’ and livin’ large. Jeff and Matt are both gay, but both just told everyone within the last year or so. I think perhaps they’re overcompensating.
And by the way. My friend (a girl) tells me (a girl) that I’m a gay man in a woman’s body. She says I’m the only woman she knows who likes to look at big oily muscley guys, big blond german hunks and International Male models. I also have a thing for teenagers. What do you think? Am I a gay man? Because my husband wears a lot of yellow 
jarbaby
Sounds like they need to grow up.
Your friend needs to widen her social circle. There are plenty of women as well as gay men who drool over big…oily…(mmm)…muscley…(moan)…blond hunks…Where was I? Oh yes, there are also gay men who lust after fat, hairy guys (aka Bears), skinny guys, red-headed guys, and so on. There are guys who dig leather and guys who wear Abercrombie & Fitch.
A gay man who digs younger guys is called a chickenhawk. You can’t be a gay man because you are a straight woman. Gay men
only have one thing in common–we have sex with our own gender. Beside that, we vary as much in appearance and temperament as straight folks.
And what does wearing yellow have to do with being gay?
I’m sorry goboy. I didn’t mean to offend you. I’m sorry. I was just making a joke. My friend really does think that about me, and I wanted to relay that she said it. I didn’t really think there was a serious issue at work.
And my husband wears a lot of bright colors and he always asks “Do I look fruity?” and I say, “in terms of citrus?” it was all just in good fun.
sorry.
jarbaby
Oh, no fear, I wasn’t offended, just confused about the wearing yellow thing. I wear earth tones, and wouldn’t be caught dead in anything from International Male.
Not even the guy on last month’s cover??? Guh.
jarbaby
Ah…International Male, aka Playguy for the closeted… 
/me imagines goboy in a pair of Bunz…
/…
'Scuse me…I have to go lie down now…
jayjay
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by goboy *
**
It comes from before the 1960’s. I’ve read in life stories of gay men in anthologies that wearing yellow in certain parts of the country was something only gay men did.
In that same vein, supposedly only black girls wore lavender.
At one time, wearing a pinky ring was another way for gay men to signal to each other supposedly.
My, my, so much to respond to…
With every newbie comes the same old questions… and then some new ones we haven’t seen before, so it’s a mixed bag. I doubt my one little thread has made a dent in the world of misinformation, but I hope at least those people who took the time to post a question got a fair answer.
See above. The one thing that has impressed me above all else is everyone else’s insight, wisdom, patience and knowledge. I bow, humbled, to the gathered Doping masses. 
Then why are you allowing yourself to be treated like this? Next time he says, “Let’s go get drunk and talk about anal sex,” say, “No, why don’t you come over for dinner?” Better yet, have him bring his boyfriend - maybe you’ll make another friend out of the deal. If the friendship isn’t give you what you want, either change your end of it or get out of it. It may pass, but only you can decide how you wish to ride it out until it does.
I don’t think there’s a gay cuisine per se, but there are restaurants that are very gay in and of themselves. But if people want to think the best restaurants are gay restaurants, who is the Gay Guy to argue?
(Aside to lissener - your long-standing feuds are not welcome here. Whatever you might have to say, take it to the Pit thread devoted specifically to you for that purpose. Thank you.)
Although the legalities were pointed out, I get the impression that even though the authors retain rights, the Chicago Reader has the right to do with their words what they will without recompense, so I’d think that if they were to give me permission, yes, I could write all this out. Personally, I’m thinking I should start my own newspaper column (somewhere between Cecil, Miss Manners and Ann Landers, methinks). It’s a thought…
Yech, no. How about cinnamon? I like cinnamon…
I’d say there’s still a stiltedness, because society still sees it as “not of the norm.” Anything exotic is going to be the focus of attention, particularly in Hollywood. Still, there have been strides - plenty of secondary characters have been gay without it being a focus. Paul’s sister on “Mad About You,” or even Harvey Fierstein’s character on the short-lived “Daddy’s Girls.”
I believe they are bisexual until I am told otherwise. Why second-guess them? I’m neither that self-indulgent or self-conscious.
Raised loosely Methodist, staunchly Unitarian Universalist since about 1987.
That would mean every straight man who ever experimented with other boys is also bisexual, which would mean there isn’t a single solitary heterosexual person on the earth. C’mon - I think it’s safe to say that if you’re attracted to one single solitary woman (and I never said I wanted to have sex with her, just that I was attracted to her, dear, dear Sophia) and 99.99999999999999999999% of the rest of the time you’re sleeping with men, you’re gay. Your friend is just an ass who wants to be right. Whatever.
Yes - the next time he insists his gaydar is correct, tell him you think he is actually straight but “just doesn’t know it yet,” then kiss him full on the mouth. With tongue. Continue to do this until you make your point. Then do it more just to weird him out. I promise he’ll change his wicked ways. (For the record, I’ve done it myself, but I know deep down it’s just wishful thinking - the very few times we’re right is still the vast minority of the time.)
If you’re uncomfortable, your friend needs to stop. You should find out if he’s attracted to you, and then ask him about his motives, 'cause really, that’s tacky. I’ve been known to make moves on guys who were ambivalent on me, but I have this real fear of going someplace I’m not wanted, first of all, and I generally do not do this to a straight guy, no matter how attracted I am to him - I want a gay man, not a poseur. Who has time? I certainly don’t.
Blasphemy!
If you’re a gay guy, I’m attracted to Sophia Loren… Um, er, wait a minute…
Esprix
Actually, thats a great idea!
You Should try to start a column for one of your local papers.
Famous Esprix!
And youre funny, too, so you could be known as “The Gay Dave Barry”! LOL
It’s just as blatantly unfair to ask “why will you never admit defeat?” as it is for your one anecdotal, nonrepresentative friend never to admit defeat.
I, for one, have a great deal of confidence in my Gaydar, and there have been times when I’m absolutely certain that a man who desperately wants to believe he’s straight is, in fact, fooling only himself, but if I share that impression with someone who doesn’t see it, I think the polite thing to do is drop it and agree to disagree: to push it any further makes it malicious gossip rather than a simple impression. So your friend’s most obvious trait, rudeness, is not (I’ll hope you agree) strictly a “gay thing.”
FWIW, most of my Gaydar consists of simple intuition; a “feeling” (that’s why they call it Gaydar). Sometimes after getting this initial feeling, I’ll look for corroborating clues: is he Catholic? is he a homophobe? is he an insensitive womanizer? These are some of the signs of a gay man living in self-denial, but would never say that every womanizing Catholic homophobe is an unconscious gay man: the intuition, the Gaydar, has to accompany these clues for me to wonder if he’s gay.