No, I wouldn’t get involved with a Saudi man. I wouldn’t get involved with any man from such a different cultural background, just because it makes life so much more difficult when you constantly have to navigate different cultural assumptions. Three long-term relationships with European men (I’m American) were exhausting enough.
But, you aren’t me.
I wouldn’t make any assumptions about his views until I had a chance to hear what he had to say about what his experiences in Saudi Arabia were like and why he left.
It’s certainly possible that the reason he left Saudi Arabia is because he doesn’t agree with the culture there. In any of these Islamic societies, there are atheists and liberals - they just may not be able to admit to being so.
Considering that in many Islamic countries people who openly express views contrary to the prevailing view can be killed or severely punished, it’s quite possible that he does disagree with those values but isn’t used to talking openly about what he disagrees with.
I wouldn’t have “thunk it” and I’ve lived in Indonesia for a long time. To the extent that I have real world experience with this sort of thing (as opposed to “quick google search[es]”) I’d have to say that there seems to be a much larger interest from Turkey than from Saudi in Indonesian women.
I could be wrong, of course. Still, regardless of whether either of us are commenting because of personal knowledge or the insta-expertise that the internet offers, it would be a shame to prejudge a single individual because of the color of the passport he carries.
Honestly, I don’t see why you shouldn’t date the guy. I mean, it’s just a date or two.
I had a co-worker once that married a Saudi. She was a native of Mexico and a Catholic, and didn’t speak a word of Arabic. They met in grad school.
It wasn’t too long before she converted to Islam. But past that, he was a pretty easygoing guy. They have three kids together, and I’d say that the family leads kind of a “double life”… Here in the US they lead fairly normal lives - Mom works outside the home, etc. Her family was not very pleased (especially about the conversion from Catholicism to Islam) but the fact that their son-in-law is a hard worker, earns good money, and comes from a very wealthy family seems to have helped smooth things out a bit.
But every summer, they spend a month in Saudi Arabia at the family compound, and they are expected to act far more “observant” - especially the wife and daughters, who do not look forward to their month in Saudi Arabia every year. I think that being “submissive” even for show, was a pretty difficult adjustment for her.
The children’s Mexican heritage was virtually ignored - they learned English and Arabic (no Spanish) and associated mostly with friends from their mosque. I remember that there was a major to-do over whether the daughters would have “quincenera” parties when they turned 15. The wife and daughters were very much in favor of this, the husband and son were very much against it. No party.
Of course it’s worth getting to know him, assuming he is otherwise attractive.
In ANY relationship you should keep your eyes open, move prudently, avoid over-romanticizing, and generally be smart about things. Cross-cultural relationships can be tricky no matter what the culture. You have to take the time to really get to know him in many contexts, as well as getting to know his family and friends.
Most of the horror stories I know of would have been preventable with a little levelheadedness. Controlling behavior is scary, not romantic. If he changes when he is around his family, that is a pattern, not a fluke. All the money in the world is not worth being stuck in a bad marriage. Work out every aspect of child raising before you have the kids. From books on the subject as well as firsthand experience through friends, most of the “I dated an Arab and he ruined my life” stories come from younger, less-secure, star-struck women who are so dazzled by the mix of old-fashioned gentlemen, ample cash, and exotic adventure that they quickly jump in feet first despite ample red flags.
Keep your head on straight and you’ll be fine.
Not in regards to women. It is probably the most regressive developed country when it comes to gender.
I knew I’d get some responses like this, but that seems pretty ridiculous and unfair. There are probably about 0 American woman who wouldn’t have a single reservation about dating a man from Saudi Arabia, and recently. Most of the *American *men I know have picked up some unhealthy attitudes towards women, and it’s hardly controversial to say that American culture is a million times more enlightened in that area than Saudi culture.
I think it’s okay to base certain judgments on religious affiliation. If this guy turns out to be a devout Muslim then I won’t get involved and I don’t think that’s wrong.
I don’t think so. He doesn’t know a lot of people here and seems to really like me and I just get the impression that if it’s up to him, he might want to get into something serious fairly quickly. I could be wrong though.
Very true. I’m more than happy to be friends with him and I’d like to hear about his experiences, it’s just dating that I’m not sure about.
He said he does have family here too, but I don’t know if that includes his father.
That is a possibility I hadn’t thought of.
I can see where that would be true. And I don’t romanticize anything, so maybe I don’t have to worry too much.
I honestly don’t know. I’d probably date him, and see where it went. That said, I don’t think that it’d be a relationship that would lead to marriage (for me, anyway. Even if I wasn’t already married.)
My aunt had a very close friend in high school - they’ve stayed close enough that everyone called her Aunt Molly, even though she’s no blood relation. Aunt Molly married Uncle Jack (fully whitebread American), who everyone also loved. During the course of his career, Uncle Jack’s job took him to Saudi Arabia, and Aunt Molly went with him. While he was there, Uncle Jack had a heart attack and died, sadly.
Aunt Molly almost didn’t make it out of the country. Even though she’s an American citizen, a foreign national, Saudi Arabia wouldn’t let a single woman travel alone, even to return home. Finally, one of Uncle Jack’s American co-workers also in SA stepped up to “escort” Aunt Jackie out (I think he simply had to move up a trip, or some such).
The point of this story? I don’t know that I could get into a long-term or permanent sort of relationship with a Saudi national, no matter how wonderful the guy. I’d be fully capable of trusting him, but I can’t trust his government. And if we were to get married, I’d hate to think what that might mean if we were to travel there. I just couldn’t accept that sort of risk to my freedom.
Is it possible that he is interested because you are a US American woman, and therefore much more likely to have casual sex with him than a Saudi Arabian woman?
(I know how terrible that sounds, but it is a reality, isn’t it? That men from cultures like Saudi Arabia think all North American woman are sluts?)
Would an American man be less interested in dating that leads to sex?
I take your point, but I was thinking of it from more of a cultural differences perspective; a North American guy wants sex, sure, but he’s also aware that it may or may not happen on the first (or second, or third) date. The Saudi Arabian guy who thinks all North American women are sluts because we run around showing off our bodies thinks, “All right! Going out with a North American woman - guaranteed to have sex with her!” That could lead to unpleasant misunderstanding.
Or I could be totally out to lunch; I’m just throwing it out there as a possibility.
There are Indian men - I’ve known plenty - who date white women exclusively because they put out, and fairly quickly. Then they marry a nice indian woman because she doesn’t put out.
This guy seems so nice though. But I guess part of where I get that impression is because Arabic speakers always sound so, I don’t know, *gentle *when they speak English, but that’s just the accent and he may or may not be as nice as he sounds.
Not that I think it’s terrible for someone to want casual sex, but if he was disrespectful about it like that, that would not be nice.
Anyway, the point is I don’t know if he’s thinking that way or not. I just am not sure if there’s really any significant chance that his attitude toward women is compatible with mine. So we have some stories here about “western” women getting involved with Arabic men and it turning out bad or kind of okay. Any stories of it turning out good?
Exactly my feeling! Why not, it would be interesting.
I also have stories of converting to Islam (why never the reverse?) My classmate was Catholic and converted to Islam for her Egyptian husband. I’ve never met him but friends told me he is domineering. She just had her fourth child in 7 years (the entire time they married) and I can only hope (I know I’m prolly overthinking this) that it was because they wanted four children and not cuz he ordered her to never use birth control. I grew up with her showing me photos of church picnics and outings and she had never said anything about being anti-Catholic. I’m also prolly overthinking this. Thru the grapevine, it was said my classmate’s mother tolerates the union only for the sake of the grandkids.
My coworker’s sister met an Arab man and married and had two daughters with him. My coworker is Hispanic. I asked him if his nieces would learn Spanish, and he said, nope, just Arabic (along with English). His sister converted and his nieces are raised in Islam religion only.
About in-laws approving someone outside the ethnicgroup/background/religion. I remember seeing a wedding announcement where an Indian man was to marry a white American blonde. My mom said, “you know why his family approves of her? Because she is a doctor.” Heehee.
I don’t want to single out any people or posts, but there is a definite undercurrent anti-Islamic sentiment in this thread that I must speak out against. Please, everyone - just because someone is Moslem does not mean they are automatically a terrible oppressor of women. My home, Indonesia, is the largest Moslem country in the world. Yet there is even an official holiday here that celebrates the rights of women.
I don’t mean to minimize the suffering that women face under repressive governments and societies, or deny that some of these nations misuse religion to justify their behavior. Also, this guy may be the world’s biggest douchebag, and he may very well use his religion to justify himself - people of many religions have been known to use religion to justify their douchiness, after all.
But to think “oh, he’s Moslem, he MUST be a caveman with respect to women” and fear him without even getting to know him a little is extremely narrow-minded.
You said it yourself - Indonesia is quite forward-thinking with regards to women. This thread isn’t about Muslim men in general, it’s about Muslim men from Saudi Arabia - a country that still cleaves quite closely to the more hardline rules regarding men and women, and women’s places in their homes and in society. See the post just a few up from yours about a Saudi man and a Mexican woman who are married and able to live equally in America, but who still have to play the deference game whenever they make a trip to Saudi Arabia just to keep up appearances.
I guess you have to find the balance between being prejudiced against a Saudi Arabian Muslim and being aware that he does indeed come from a different country and different culture, and chances are good that he has been raised to think of women differently than North American women think of themselves.
Exactly. But some of the posts upthread don’t make that distinction. Saudi culture is not representative of Islam everywhere (and even then, of course, it pays to give an individual a chance to speak for himself).
missed the edit window, sorry - on re-reading the thread, I think I’m being a bit oversensitive. Most of the posts seem to be clear that the concern is that the guy is Saudi, not simply that he’s Muslim. But if anyone reading this thinks that Saudi culture represents the tenets of Islam as practiced everywhere in the world, believe me, it doesn’t!