Hmm, the problem I have with the irony view is that Homer is the kind of character who would actually approve of Bart’s rant against teamwork and tolerance. Plus it’s always those two against Marge and Lisa’s more sensible views. I think they were making fun by implying Homer is one of those easily led types who would subscribe to things like conspiracy or ranting newsletters. Remember how he got led away on the bandwagon with the monorail and the proposition to kick out immigrants?
Of course, it could have been some deeper thing that none of us are getting, or just something that sounded funny and the authors figure we can interpret how we like.
Yikes, how did it ever come to this - Debating what they meant in The Simpsons.
Joining in the debate here… that statement has EVERYTHING to do with Homer. He’s quite capable of coming out with unintentional irony, but I can’t see how this sentence is an example of that… partly because it’s all about Homer’s own reactions to what Bart said. It’s humorously unexpected, but the only way it would be ironic is if Homer actually didn’t like what Bart was saying, but thought that he did.
Not everything coming out of Homer’s mouth means the opposite of what it seems to.
Sometimes the characters can say things that are out of character, such as when Bart replied to Lisa “I’m familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda.” However, in this case I think it was just a chance for the audience to mock Homer’s stupidity.
He wasn’t being sarcastic, and wasn’t being ironic, unless you mean the “alanic” kind of ironic.
It has nothing to do with Homer in that Homer isn’t a real person. Everything he says to us is a message from the writers. When the writer’s wrote: “Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.” They meant: “Wow, you’re a bleeping idiot.” and we the audience know that, especially as it’s reinforced by the characters of Lisa and Marge.
A writer writing a sentence that has a literal meaning opposite it’s intended meaning is irony. Simple textbook definition.
If you’re suggesting that the writers meant that the phrase "you’re ideas are intriguing . . . " equals “wow, you’re a bleeping idiot”, I don’t see where that conclusion comes from, and I know the episode and the characters welll. If this is the case, then I think you’re wrong as context indicates otherwise. If you’re suggesting that the greater message of the scene may be just that Homer is an idiot, then though I disagree with you, I see where you are getting that from – to me, the reply seems to be less exemplary of idiocy and more self centered misanthropy. Nonetheless, the comment is certainly not ironic from Homer’s perspective (A character can be written as intentionally ironic. I don’t see why anyone would think otherwise), nor do I think the writers meant for the line to “mean” something other that what it says. They meant for Homer to be agreeing with Bart’s misanthropic ideas and this was there exagerated humorous way of having him do it. The viewer is of course left to draw his own conclusion about Bart’s and Homer’s intelligence, but the line is not ironic – it does not mean the opposite of what it says. The scene, on the other had, is ironic, in that bumbling dufus Homer dignifies Bart’s crack-pot ideas* and responds with an eloquent, for Homer, compliment. Sort of in the same way that it’s ironic when Homer puts on his little half rim eyeglasses to solve a problem.
*I guess certain Randian objectivist might not conisder the ideas crackpot.
I’ll have to dig out my copy of Rev. Ivan Stang’s HIGH WEIRDNESS BY MAIL for confirmation, but I would not be surprised if he suggested such a line in writing the groups included in the book.
Homer may be a real person, but something that he says starting with the word ‘I’ still has to do with his character as a concept. (To me, at least.) It’s not about him in the same way that it would be able a real flesh and blood person, or even a character in a more sedate and serious work of art or fiction, but it’s still about him. Homer Simpson does exist as an idea in our heads, and things can be about him in that sense.
I don’t tend to interpret what cartoon characters say that way. (Maybe they are or aren’t, I don’t really care.) Cartoons are just a bunch of funny stuff that happens.
I certainly never received that statement that way… don’t even think that Homer’s terribly idiotic for saying it, though it does get up to about a 4 on the general foolishness scale. (I assume that the you in ‘…you’re a bleeping idiot’ is meant to be Homer and not me the viewer.)
I guess we just don’t agree on the intended meaning of that sentence.
On preview - hi, whole bean! (Got delayed by work while writing this out.)
