The other day, I was having a discussion with two buddies of mine, both of whom happen to be christian (one catholic, one protestant), when this subject came up. They seemed a little peeved with me(as an agnostic) for suggesting that if Jesus were to return today, hypothetically, the religion he would most identify with would probably be Islam, rather than Christianity, or even Judaism.
I based this assertion on the fact that Christianity as practiced today doesn’t really have much to do with what Jesus himself taught and practiced, it has more to do with the teachings of St. Paul. Also, Christians today have mostly done away with the laws that Jesus, as an Israelite, maintained and lived by. Judaism would seem to be the most logical answer in this scenario, being that Jesus was a “Jew,” but I don’t think Judaism as practiced and represented today is in any way similar to the ancient Israelite traditions before the sacking of the kingdom by Babylon, or even directly after.
I said Islam, much to their shock and despair, since it seems to be a purely semetic religion both in culture and language, is fiercely monotheistic, Shariah (Islamic law) seems to more in line with the laws laid out in the Torah, 30 day fasting prescribed once a year, obligatory charity for the poor, manners of prayer and dress for both men and women, etc. Islam just seems to be a better “fit,” for Jesus, IMO. We can also apply this thesis to most of the biblical Prophets and personalities. The discussion got pretty heated when I suggested that it was ironic that in most representations of Mary, mother of Jesus, she’s dressed and covered much like Muslim women throughout the M.E. - to which my catholic friend took great offense. Anyway, we killed the convo at that point.
Islam is far too militaristic of a religion for Jesus to identify with it if he were to come back. Its primary prophet was a warlord who conquered other nations and forcibly converted them. Judaism is out too because Old Testament Judaism is heavily militaristic and xenophobic.
The only other answer I can think of might be Christianity as it is practiced by the Quakers.
From what I know of Christ’s teachings, they were neither similar to Judaism nor to how Christianity was actually practiced by the people who adopted it in the centuries to come. They certainly had very little in common with Islam, which as a whole is closer to Old Testament Judaism and also the pre-Islamic religions of the Arab peoples than it is to anything Jesus taught.
I think he’d find most of the rules limiting daily life in Muslim society to be missing the forest for the trees, the same as he had that problem with Judaism of old.
I don’t think he’d be happy with any of the various modern day religions. He probably would favor socialism though.
This would seem to be a flawed proposition in that the Christian religions mentioned in this thread are about Jesus, but not what Jesus specifically did himself (being a Jew.)
Well, in fairness to Muhammad, I wouldn’t say the spread of his religion was primarily through force, or at least a “convert-or-die” approach. In fact, especially in the era of the first few caliphs, most people preferred Islamic rule to Persian/Byzantine rule, especially religious minorities. Things are obviously a little different now.
Anyway, that’s one aspect of Buddhism that Jesus might find appealing, but as a whole, the Buddhist belief system would probably be considered by him to be blasphemy in most respects.
I think Islam was pretty on the mark as far as it is the religion the closest to Christianity. You’ve got the “peace and love” message backed up by a pretty strict God who doesn’t fuck around. You got heaven and hell. You have the idea of later revelations. You have a linear time frame with a beginning and an end. And most importantly, you have the only other evangelical major religion around. Islam and Christianity are the only religions that state that they are the only ones that have it right and that they are the religion for all people.
I can also see the argument for Judaism. There is some argument that Jesus wasn’t trying to spawn a new thing as much as create a kinder, gentler Judaism. And I think that is pretty much what modern Judaism has become.
As for non-semitic religions…maybe Sikhism? I gotta strongly disagree with Buddhism- no monotheism, no linear time line, no strong heaven/hell right/wrong dichotomies. Jesus was a lot more than “love your neighbor.”
On second thought, there are too many variables to say. Are we talking about all these religions as they are practiced today? Or as they are originally described in their holy texts? Or as they were practiced back in the day? Or what?
But I thought Jesus wasn’t a practicing Jew. Didn’t he do away with many of the Jewish laws, telling people that they were now living under a *new *covenant with God and therefore they could stop stoning their neighbors for adultery and following all the other rules outlined in Leviticus?
For that reason, I think Islam and Judaism are right out. Most of Christianity is out as well, due to the power and money held by most of the large Christian churches.
No, I think Jesus’s pick would probably be some small band of independent Christians - either the Quakers or Amish or possibly even some small Koresh-like cult none of us know about.Or maybe, possibly, something like Thelema. Jesus *was *into the magick, but I’m not sure, again, he’d be down with all those rules and rituals.
That’s not to say I think any of them have it “right”, just that, from the little I know via 32nd hand reports of what Jesus was into, one of them would likely be his personal choice.
It seems to me that he would simply adhere to “the teachings of Christ”. I think he’d ignore the massive, hierarchical Christian church and continue to preach what he did back in the day.
Why not? I don’t think that means what you think it means.
Once you get past the hype and misinformation, it’s actually a very JudeoChristian religion. Too much so for my taste; I’ve Initiated with and tried to study with several different Thelemite and Western Esoteric groups and they’re all way too Christ/YHVH heavy for me.
Oh, I know what it means. I’m completely sure Jesus was not into, say, sex magic. What do you see in his teachings that would lead you to believe he would be comfortable seeing Mary as a sacred whore, for example?
I wasn’t thinking of specifics, more the general theory that magick is possible, dead people can be brought back to life, loaves and fishes, etc. And I hedged it with both a “maybe” and a “possibly” to indicate an extreme degree of going-out-on-a-limbness. Mostly, I just don’t know another JudeoChristian system which teaches that magick is possible.
Thelema is not a Judeo-Christian system. It has some trappings of that – mixed in with the trappings of many other borrowed mysticisms – but there is no Jewish or Christian church which would ever, ever recognize the OTO or individual Themelic practice as being part of those traditions. And given this passage in the Liber AL vel Legis:
I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men
Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!
With my Hawk’s head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.
I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.
With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.
Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!
I think it’s pretty clear Jesus wouldn’t be interested in Thelema.
If Jesus came back today he would abolish all religion, in favor of his own direct divine Monarchy.
However, for the sake of argument within the terms of the debate I’d have to say, “Taoism”. He made an argument for simply accepting things the way God made them, and to not cling in vain to transient worldly things, to let them pass as they are meant to.
Not Buddhism because Buddhism is a very negative religion. Christianity and Buddhism are very similar but in the way mirror images are similar. They are approaching the same goal by walking in opposite directions. The Christian loses the self by finding the Divine. The Buddhist finds the divine by losing the self.
Not exactly, no. He was a practicing Jew who preached in the Templ, and his immediate followers were Jews. However, we believe he established a new Covenent for the whole world and offers redemption to all.
I always understood that Jesus was against confrontation in one’s personal life as we relate with others. I never made that connection as it applied to society and governments that Jesus was anti-military involvement.
But, otherwise, if Jesus were to come back, then we must assume that the one true religion would have to be some off-shoot of Christianity, right?