Is boot camp still like Full Metal Jacket?

We’re talking US military here. The likeness I refer to is the overall mental and physical strain, the general style and extent of humiliation. Not necessarily the actual tasks performed. I don’t care whether they do the manual of arms or not.

If you haven’t seen it, the ten minutes that count are here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Nf1MK7lts It is set during the Vietnam war.

So has the humiliation, the cursing, the commands to do pointless crap at a word just to see if you will jump unhesitatingly decreased in degree? I expect they have.

As a midpoint comparison, I went through Navy boot camp in the late 80s. My experience was pretty much the same as you see in the film, except (1) the DIs did not strike us, (2) since our DIs were Filipino and non-native speakers, they did not have the colorful command of DI-speak that Gunney Hartman has.

And suicides were indeed something to be on the lookout for.

Remember the jelly donut? We had a guy who got caught smoking when it wasn’t smoke break. (You can’t smoke at all in basic nowadays.) The DI put a whole pack in his mouth, lit them, and then put a bucket over his head.

You get extra credit if you know what “nut to butt” means.

My experience in 1988 was very much like yours, and the movie without the hitting. Air Force physical training is not nearly as intense as the Marines, but “the program” is similar.

Not even close anymore. I don’t know what it was like back in the day, but a Drill Sergeant is not allowed to strike a Soldier. Profanity is not encouraged, but Hell, I am not supposed to cuss when I am working and it manages to slip in there. Racial slurs are not allowed and can cost someone a job.

That is not to say that there will not be both physical and mental stress. You may get yelled at, you will do more push-ups than you feel you can do, but it is designed to build Soldiers who have pride. Training is not designed to scare and threaten Army trainees. Everyone I have talked to upon completing Basic Training has felt good about themselves and the experience.

SSG Schwartz

I felt (and still feel) good about myself and my military experience. Basic was difficult. Maybe the most difficult thing I’ve ever done…including law school and the bar exam. I’m proud that I made the grade. Quite a few of the guys that started with me didn’t.

I did Army Basic at Ft. Dix in 1982. Ful Metal Jacket was a very exaggerated version of what I went through. We had PT, rifle range, foot locker inspections, our bunks had to be made perfectly or the DI would throw the mattress on the floor, we had uniform inspections, we cleaned incessantly and drilled for hours, marching up & down the parking lot in the thin winter sunlight.

Our DI was a tough little Puerto Rican guy who started out by inviting any of us who felt like kicking his ass to try it. When nobody accepted, he explained that even though some of us could kick his ass, and maybe some of the bigger boys could kill him, they would “know that this little spic has been there”, and that he could fuck any of us up.

Like others have posted, the DI’s were not allowed to strike us and could only touch us to position our hands, arms, etc for specific drills. SSg Ruiz made one big kid from New Jersey cry just by making him hold his arms out horizontal, palms up, shaming him and calling him a “big, fat, smelly pussy”.

Except for the lack of sleep, basic training was probably my favorite part of my military experience. Every day was a physical challenge, but by the fifth week I knew that I could handle anything they threw at me. In the third week I figured out that i didn’t have to think, just do exactly what they told me to do, as quickly as I could.

I went through (Canadian) basic in 1999. Lots of swearing, yelling, PT, no sleep, stress, etc. They were not allowed to hit though. Technically not allowed to swear, but they knew that none of us would rat them out or else didn’t care. I hated inspections most, when they’d throw someone’s kit all around the room and break shit. It was easier once I realized that they pretty much arbitrarily pick someone to fuck with everyday to see how they react, to not take it personally and that they’re not really total sadistic assholes. I wanted to quit every day anyways, but managed to stick it out. Being out of basic was much better. Later my old DIs (once I was out of basic and had gotten to know them a bit) liked to tell stories about how easy basic is now and how in the 70s and 80s there were no rules really and all kinds of crazy shit happened. Some days I miss the army.

Just a few data points, not an answer. My father went through Marine Boot Camp (Parris Island) in 1945. He was very impressed with the Boot Camp portion of FMJ. Of course this was due to the performance of R. Lee Ermey* who was a Viet Nam era Marine DI. The head games, the training, the language and even the physical abuse where the same.

I went to Army Basic in 1989. The culture is different than the Marines. Marine DIs have a way of speaking that is unique. Many of the other aspects are similar. No physical abuse, just looks of PT. On Drill Sergeant would have a recruit take off his helmet and then beat the shit out of the helmet because he wasn’t allowed to hit the recruits. Lack of sleep was the worst part.

From what I understand, now there is much more focus on tactics and infantry skills. We really didn’t have much of that, just basic soldier skills. Due to the current conflicts changes were made in basic training and it is now a few weeks longer than it was.

*I Remember a show on History or Discovery about the role of NCOs in the American military throughout history (I think it was called Sarge). They were talking to a modern day DI and to Ermey. The current DI was explaining about the psychological tricks they use to motive and teach and how any physical contact was forbidden. R. Lee calmly explained that during Viet Nam the recruit classes got bigger and they were given less time to train them. So to get their attention the DIs beat the shit out of the recruits. He had no regrets. He had a short ammount of time to teach them enough to stay alive.

Army basic 1971,
The blanket party was carried out the same way it happened to the bloke in the bunk above me.
That is an experience you don’t want to own!!!

The ride to the range in a cattle car???

Thanks, all. Very interesting.

I was surprised by the one whose father said his experience in '45 was very close to FMJ. I figured that much of what was distinctive developed during the post-war years. But now that I think about it makes sense. '41-'45 was probably when a lot of cultural fixtures evolved.

Similarly I was suprised when I read the Caine Mutiny in '88 while serving at sea how little of shipboard life had changed between in 45 years. But I bet a lot changed between 1900 and '45.

Rules started changing in 1973 for the Army as it was the first all volunteer basic the Army had for a long while. The DI’s were not yet used to the changes when I went thru but i heard them talking amoung themselves as to how hard it was to not at least shake a recruit sometimes. Basic was a piece of cake, if you were in any kind of shape, and had ever been hunting.

Canadian basic, 1989. Extremely high stress, screaming in your face, ridiculous levels of inspection standards… but never, ever would they hit you.

The most unrealistic part of FMJ is, in fact, the senior drill instructor always seeming to be the guy who’s doing all the training. The movie needs to do that for brevity, but in fact the assistant instructors would be the ones most often in your face.

They showed the assistant DIs in the backgrounds of several scenes, actively helping some recruits in at least one instance, but they weren’t given speaking roles.

Could you expand on this a little. The Caine Mutiny
is one of my favorite books partly because it explores what life is like aboard ship. What were the similarities and differences to your experience?

Boot camp in 94 for the Navy, one of the last out of Orlando. I loved Boot Camp. It sucked at first, but then I managed to get into the mindset and the rest of the time flew by. Being in the military sucks, You couldn’t pay me enough to be in the military, but I would go to boot camp again.

No hitting. Lots of yelling, little sleep. I don’t remember FMJ well but for me boot camp was no horror. However, I wasn’t the one who would lock my knees and pass out, or smell and get beat (worse on a ship than in boot!), or etc.

I went to Fort Knox. At the time there was one Senior Drill Sergeant for the recruit company. He didn’t get too envolved in the training. Each platoon in the company had two drills. We had an E7 and an E6. We also had a sergeant who was there for Drill Sergeant school but had not started yet. He helped with the training but didn’t wear the hat and wasn’t called drill sergeant.
One other thing I remember is how time seemed to move differently there. You could see other companies training and you measured how far along they were by what training events they got through. In the beginning the guys who had gone through the gas chamber seemed to be so far ahead of us. The gas chamber was week two. When I went through we would wear our helmets without the camo cover until you qualified with the M16. Once you got that camo cover on you could look down your nose at the newbies that hadn’t qualified yet. Qualification was in week 4 or 5.

I went to Boot Camp in San Diego, in 1989. Wasn’t exactly like FMJ, but still had some high lights:

*The Grinder Reminder. Push Ups performed on hot asphalt until your hands were burned.

*Airplane Pushups. The Naval RTC in San Dog was next to the airport. Unsuspecting BC’s would look up at a plane taking off, while standing at attention. “You like Airplanes?” the CC would ask. “Airplane Pushups, begin!” The recruit would nervously ask, “How many, Sir?” “Three.” You’d see guys practically in tears, who (after doing hundreds of conventional pushups) could not believe their ears.

Unfortunately, Airplane Pushups are not conventional. You assume the pushup position, then wait for a plane to fly overhead. You may then lower yourself parallel with the pavement, and wait for the next plane to fly over. When it finally does, you raise yourself back up. This counts as one pushup. Three Airplane Pushups could easily last 45 minutes.

Not much violence occured; CC’s were also not allowed to strike recruits. We had one guy at First Issue try to cut his wrists with a safety razor. Another guy in my company got discharged for sleepwalking.

Nut to Butt refers to standing in an extermely tight line, tight enough so that you couldn’t slide a playing card between the guys in front/back of you. The other part of the refrain was “Make the man in front of you Smile!”.

Special Libs if you know what a Cuff Monster is.

Funny, a few of my buddies and I who were going into OCS at Quantico watched Full Metal Jacket and drank lotsa beer the night before with other buddies who had just graduated, then drove onto the base blaring “Thus Spake Zarathustra” from 2001: A Space Odyssey and then “The Flight of the Valkyries” from Apocalypse Now. We were pumped.

As for the actual time there (1987), yelling, screaming, possibly pushing non-offending candidates out of the way to get to the offender (usually Candidate Rochfort, who didn’t make it). “Motivational PT” was acceptable, but not “Disciplinary PT”. To this day I don’t think there was a difference. Very creative and colorful linguistic alternatives to swearing (all OCS Instructors already had at least one tour at MCRD Parris Island or San Diego), but sometimes something slipped out when it was really warranted. No beating that I was aware of, but there were rumors. Little sleep, lots of exercise, but do NOT fall asleep in the dozens of academic classes we had to take. There were deliberate attempts to stress us out mentally and physically, but these guys were the gatekeepers of the Corps. They didn’t want to let in any leaders that weren’t going to be good ones.

As I understand it, at least in the USMC, Boot Camp is designed to break the individual down, then build him/her back up into a Marine. OCS is designed to weed out those who do not have Leadership qualities already inside them.