Drill Sergeants

I was watching Monty Python a while ago and the hospital sketch got me thinking about drill sergeants.

Now, I’ve never been in any sort of military organisation - the closest I’ve ever gotten to an army was two weeks ago, when I took a few wrong turns and ended up at the gate of a SDF base. It’s a good thing I managed to u-turn before they could shoot me, but I digress.

Anyway, one of Hollywood’s favouritest cliché characters is the insane drill sergeant. Just movies I’ve seen fairly recently:
-Full Metal Jacket
-Starship Troopers
-Biloxi Blues
-Basic
etc.

It seems that, by default, whenever a movie features a drill sergeant he will be, or act, completely insane.

My question in thus: how grounded in reality is this? Is R. Lee Ermy the norm, or are actual actual DS more mild-mannered?

The ones I have known are the nicest guys off the job, friendly, funny, helpful. I have seen others ON the job who may appear less patient and understanding, and I have known one both off and on the job. I could have sworn the nice guy had an evil twin. It is a carefully structured act.

So would you say that it’s normal for them to put on a yelling tough guy act while on the job?

Yes, indeed. An act.

I would suggest READING “Starship Trooper” instead of watching the movie. Besides bein very different in content, there is also a good deal of discussion about drill sergeants and the military. Having read “Starship Trooper” at a you age (about twelve or thirteen) made basic training MUCH easier to comprehend when I actually went through it.

http://www.historyinfilm.com/jacket/

Jovan said,
“Now, I’ve never been in any sort of military organisation - the closest I’ve ever gotten to an army was two weeks ago, when I took a few wrong turns and ended up at the gate of a SDF base. It’s a good thing I managed to u-turn before they could shoot me…”

Being very involved with the Japanese Self Defence Forces, and knowing the general character of most Japanese people, you’d have probably been killed with kindness! They’d have flapped a bit, had a long involved chat in a huddle about where you wanted to go, and probably someone would have ended up personally guiding you there.

And they could not have shot you as they are not usually armed directly at the gate. (That is not to say that a determined attacker could not be stopped but your average person is in no danger whatsoever.)

And to get back to drill sergeants, in Japan’s SDF, thanks to the laws protecting the country from an army of the type that developed here in the pre-war years, a soldier can quit at any time. Officers have relatively little power here and there is none of the hazing and “brainwashing” that goes on in the US and British armies.

Errm. At the same time, it is quite possible (read:definite fact) that Hollywood exaggerates the act to a considerable degree.

The point of the real masquerade is to put you under as much stress as possible without going over the edge. This is to help prepare you for those times when you are under heavy stress (someone is shooting at your ass, and has been doing so for days) and you must still perform and do things properly.

Simple example:
You are cleaning your rifle (DO NOT call it a gun,) and the DI comes and starts ragging you about what a shitty job you are doing and yells at you and calls you a thumb-fingered dolt wih a sunken brow. The point isn’t that he wants to insult you. The point is to stress you out and see if you can still do the job properly. Your orders were to clean the rifle, not argue with the Sergeant. He fucks with your mind and stresses you out to see if you can take it. If you can’t, he’ll insist that you do and will continue to bitch at you while you do it. Thus do you learn to handle stress.

The same goes for long hikes and night time duty and stuff - and the business with the neatly folded underwear. In the long run, nobody cares if you can fold your underwear to a precise size. The point is that you follow the orders given and do it regardless of the conditions.

This is a point that a lot of folks never see. My brother in law was in the German Army, and thought it rediculous that he should have to fold his drawers according to regulations - and that inspections actually checked his compliance. The point wasn’t how his drawers were folded, it was whether he managed to follow the regs despite all the short nights and long duty days.

One of the things that I remember best about my own basic training was the pop-quizzes on regulations. We had a book, and anytime we weren’t other wise occupied, we were to be studying it. At anytime, your drill instructor might just come up and ask you something point blank out of the book. Part of it was, of course, to get you to learn the regs. The other thing was, again, handling stress.

I was once asked (in such a quiz) to describe the insignia of an Air Force Chief Master Sergeant. I described the insignia of the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, which is a similar thing, though not quite the same. There is only one Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force - he is of course a Chief Master Sergeant, so his insignia is similar but with a wreath where the others don’t have one.

My answer was wrong, and I knew it as soon as I said. The only thing to do, though, was to remain silent. I’d given my answer, and the instructor hadn’t asked for anything else so I didn’t have permission to speak.

He waited a couple of seconds (to see if I’d start babbling) and then asked me if the answer was correct. Again, I had to answer as asked. The only possible answer being “No, Sir.” He hadn’t asked me for the correct answer, only if my first answer was correct.

Again, after I answered, he waited a couple of seconds to see if I’d fuck up. I didn’t. He then asked me for the correct answer, which I gave him.

A very compact lesson that covered rank insignia (I’ve never again forgotten what either of those two insignia looks like,) proper military etiquette, owning up to a mistake, and handling yourself under stress. It lasted for all of about ten, maybe fifteen seconds - and has stayed with me for a lifetime.

These guys are training people for an occupation in which a mistake made under stress can get you your ass shot off. They do this with every trick available, and yelling at you is just one of them.

Damn. “Starship Troopers.”

Brain dead this afternoon.

However, HB, maybe retreating was a good move for jovan; after all, what with all the fruitless fighting against 500-foot-tall radioactive lizards, someone in the SDF may be very tempted by a softer target :smiley:

As for the DS/DI/MTI/etc, it stands to reason that the “colorful” type makes the best movie character. OTOH the movies take a lot of artistic license – the DI is NOT to get gratuitiously abusive or violent. As mentioned, R. Lee is typical in the important sense that on the job the DI gets to be an actor, who has the chance to combine, as s/he sees best fit, both method and grand-stage techniques to drive home the point. See Mort Furd’s post. You can’t afford the recruits going thru Basic not taking things seriously. So you make sure his trainers are examples of the toughest, hardest-core, most squared-away incarnation of the service, plus then some.

My experience is now 60 years out of date. However, as an Army private in basic training and later as an aviation cadet in pilot training I do not recall that we were yelled at, abused or demeaned. As far as I recall, the training was pretty much no-nonsense and no one questioned our worth to the world, the USA or the Army at the top of his voice. And, like those in the military today, we were all volunteers.

The key is, from what I’ve heard from others who went through various service’s boot camps, to learn the rules and play the game well. If you catch on that it IS a game, you’re good. There’s reasons for what they do, and they’re not just trying to be cruel.

My brother just started his third week at AF boot camp today. It will be interesting to meet this person who has already managed to effect a massive attitude change for the better in my brother.

I think “toughest” and “most squared away” are the most relavant parts, there.

These guys show up and roust you out of your bed at some ungodly hour (O’dark thirty, we called it.) Their day yesterday was as long as yours was, and these guys waltz in like they’ve just come back from a couple of weeks of leave time. Shaved, shined, relaxed and ready to go.

The thing is, they’ve got lives, too. Besides keeping an eye on you and seventy other guys, these fellows also have to keep their own lives in order. They do this while keeping the same duty hours as the trainees, and while teaching said trainees how to keep themselves in order.

These fellows are GOOD. They take only volunteers (at least, the AF did way back when,) and only the very best of those.

I’ve heard it said that DIs have the hardest job in the world, and I can go along with that. If they are doing the job right, most of the guys they are training will hate them. if they don’t push hard enough (so as not to be hated) they’ll let trainees through who could get in serious trouble (court martial) or killed in action. Really, that is not an easy job. A conscientious trainer has it rough - and the powers that be don’t dare let in anything but conscientious people for the job because it is so important.

From my basic training experience many years ago, I believe Ermey in Full Metal Jacket is the most accurate of any movie I’ve seen.

I second Mort Furd’s advice about reading Starship Troopers. Although set in a fictional future army, the book has some good sections on basic training, with the DI’s view of the process as well as the recruit’s view. (Don’t go by the movie, which was a bad example of Hollywood using the title and not much else of the original book.)

Whenever I am trying to describe to somebody how boot camp was, I always tell them to watch the first half of Full Metal Jacket (skip the rest).

That sequence, though a bit over-the-top at times, was downright scary in how closely it matched the real thing.

Some things have changed over the years. In the Vietnam era, drill instructors sometimes got physical (e.g. “Choke yourself…Not with your hand numbnuts WITH MINE!”). Friends of mine who are Vietnam vets have confirmed the accuracy of the FMJ intro.

In my day, the physical harassment had subsided – they had fairly rigid guidelines as to what kind of abuse they could dish out. They did shout every known obscenity at us, plus several new ones.

I have been told that in recent years, they have been prohibited from swearing :eek:. I find it hard to believe that this is true. What kind of namby-pamby military doesn’t let its drill instructors curse? In any case, I’m sure that they make the time just as enjoyable even without salt and peppering their statements with strong language.

As often happens in film, FMJ had many events in its bootcamp scenes that actually happened to different folks at different times, but they brought it all together and condensed it so that this one group of guys experienced far more stuff than your average recruit.
For example, “blanket parties” actually did happen (the beating they gave to Private Pyle), but we never had one in my company.

Full Metal Jacket was nearly identical to my own time in boot camp. The verbalizations, the jelly doughnut, the xmas song, a couple kids who tried to commit suicide, dogging the weak ones, a blanket party. Closest to the real thing you can get without being there.

Most of my D.I.s were very much like Ermey, while we had one that made him look like a cream puff. He was the devil.

In FMJ, was the treatment of Pyle after they’d found he was a good sniper accurate?

Also, what about the boasting that Lee Harvey Oswald and Whitman the tower shooter had learned their sniping skills in the Marine Corps? That seemed over the top to me.

My father (who proudly wore the Green Beanie) explained it to me this way.

At the time you enlist, the military is not at all interested in who you are, where you come from, and what you know. That’s irrelevant. Basic training takes you back to the beginning, and starts fresh. You learn new ways of thinking, new ways of acting, new ways of responding. You are reformed as a person, formed into a soldier. (cue the theme from Patton)

That’s why basic training was so rough. That’s why drill sergeants evolved into the mean, tough-talking, on-your-ass sons of bitches that became so famous. The idea was to knock you off of your high horse, to make it abundantly clear that you did not know a damned thing. And that your best chance of surviving was to listen, learn and obey. Think you already know how to shoot? Down, soldier, and give me twenty for even thinking it! Don’t like the food? Go a week on half rations, soldier, and you’ll learn to like it. You may think you’re afraid of the enemy right now, but once you’re down in the mud on the front line you’ll realize that your drill sergeant was much scarier.

One of the things my father remembered vividly was being taken to his unit’s museum, which was really more of a shrine. There they learned the stories of the guys who did their duty, the ones who had the guts when the time came to do what was needed. The guys who, when ordered to charge a machine gun nest, didn’t stop to ponder their chances of survival, and just charged, dammit. Soldier, forget about the guys you idolized before. These are your heroes now. Bow down and worship. Some day you may get the chance to do your duty and be held in equally high esteem.

Obviously, times have changed.

I went through Army basic back in 1989, in Ft. Leonard Wood, MO. As far back as then, the drill instructors weren’t allowed to swear using certain words.

When they wanted to smoke, they made us all face away.
“Sound off like you’ve got a pair” was always followed by, “…of lungs, that is.”

It wasn’t nearly as exaggerated as FMJ (a favorite of mine, BTW). I think the drill instructors did “good cop, bad cop” with us though, becasue there was always the “easy” one that we “liked” better than the “mean” one. Each platoon had two drill sergeants, of which our company comprised four platoons.

Also, at Ft. Wood, you didn’t call them drill sergeants – it was just sergeant. “I’m a sergeant in the US Army, son, just like any other. Don’t call us drill sergeant.” Then when I got to Ft. Gordon for advanced training, “Do you see this hat? I’m a drill sergeant in the US Army and you’ll address me as drill sergeant.” Oh well.