1. Canadian nukes? 2. US reaction?

Great Debates
#1

1. Canadian nukes? 2. US reaction?

This is a two part question.

First, should Canada arm itself with nuclear weapons?

Canada is an exceptionally oil rich nation. The USA needs oil, which presently makes for good trade, but should a shortage become critical and extended, there may be extreme friction (groan). The USA has a pattern of excessively involving itself in the affairs of other nations over economic interests, and has gone so far as to overthrow elected governments. In light of this, it is reasonable for Canada to develop its military to the point that it can defend against potential American aggression over oil.

The population of the USA is an order of magnitude greater than that of Canada, and the American military dwarfs Canada’s. It is impossible for Canada to develop a conventional military that can stand up to the USA. Any military deterrence (as opposed to diplomatic or economic deterrence – or the tried and true Canadian fifth column approach of impregnating as many Americans as possible) would have to involve nukes in a MAD deterrence.

Canada has the ability to develop nukes and delivery systems, and allies such as the USA, France and the UK have nukes.

Should we arm ourselves with nuclear weapons?

Second, what would the American reaction be should we arm ourselves with nukes?

The USA has/has wanted to bring its nukes into Canada, and has wanted Canada to share in the defence of the USA by permitting military access to Canada and by contributing to American military costs, but this has always been in the context of Canada supporting the USA without Canada developing its own nukes (e.g. American nukes in Canada on Canadian delivery systems http://www.user.dccnet.com/welcomewoods/Nuclear_Free_Georgia_Strait/clearwater.html ).

Although Canadian nukes would support continental defence, Canadian nukes would also be a direct threat to the USA should Canadian and American interests diverge over the use of Canadian oil to the point of the USA attempting to liberate Canada.

What would be the American reaction if Canada were to develop nuclear weapons?

#2

The U.S. cannot get a two bit third world backwater under control. IIRC their last great victory was Grenada. All kidding aside, Canadians would absolutely not go for development of their own nukes. Furthermore it would just give Iran all the more justification to pursue their nuclear program. If the U.S. invaded, they would require Candadian civilian help to pull it off. We wouldn’t shoot at them we’d just call in sick.

#3

We’d be invaded by the USA.

Canada, as we know it, would no longer exist.

That’s my guess, anyway.

(Not only do we have oil, we have lots of fresh water, also a valuable resource. And land. And as global warming accelerates, Canada’s north might seem more appealing.)

We’d probably apologise as the tanks roll in, too, it’s the reflexive Canadian thing to do.

#4

Is Canada still a country? I thought we annexed them years ago!

:smiley:

#5

Why should the US worry about Canada with nukes? Isn’t Canada an ally?

#6

Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.

#7

I honestly don’t know if that is satire or being serious because I’ve seen alot of Canadians say similiar things. Do Canadians really fear the US? Didn’t you guys see all the revolt and protest when the US invaded Iraq? Iraq had one of the worst human rights records on earth and was run by a military dictator who starved his own people. Canada is a liberal democracy with one of the world’s best human rights records. Imagine what would happen domestically in the US if Canada got invaded by us. Americans would start bombing the pentagon and assinating politicans if the US government decided to invade Canada.

#8

I think a lot of us see the USA in two different lights simultaneously. On the one hand, yes, we’re allies, relatively friendly as countries go, and we here in the north are generally glad we have such a good and powerful neighbor.

On the other hand… well, it looks like the US government is often prone to invade first, ask questions later and formally declare war never. And once the US president, of whatever party, gets it in his head to do something, does he ever really listen to what the people are telling him, instead of trying to spin their reaction to what he wants?? (That’s a bit of overstatement I know, but there’s a kernel of truth to it.)

Yes, I think on some level a lot of canadians are slightly afraid of what would happen if we got on Uncle sam’s backside, especially with our own recent millitary cutbacks. YMMV.

#9

I don’t see it. There would be uproar that made Iraq and Vietnam look like a joke by comparison. I’d predict americans committing car bombings, assassinations, kidnapping of senators and tens millions of people protesting all over the world if the US ever invaded a human rights friendly liberal democracy.

The US invades other countries alot, but we tend to invade small third world countries with bad human rights and we try to establish more human rights friendly liberal democracies in their place (I live in the US so I am exposed to different propaganda than those in other countries with more poor views of the US, but that is largely how it seems to have been the last 20 years. Before the 80s/90s human rights meant shit to our foreign policy). Canada is totally different than Iraq, Yugoslavia, Haiti, Somalia, Panama, Afghanistan, North Korea, etc.

#10

What uproar over Iraq ? Up until recently I saw very little; most Americans either cheered the invasion or didn’t care.

If there was an invasion of Canada, I’d expect a little more outrage; they’re mostly white and Christian ( I think ), after all. On the other hand, I expect most would go along with it, especially since Canada if full of e-vuul socialists.

Personally, I think Canada should get nukes, as well as Mexico and any other country America might take interest us. Given the US’s behavior, it’s the prudent thing to do.

#11

You didn’t see any protests? The hundreds of thousands of people marching together? The fact that everyday in the US there are stories about anti-war protests and marches? Most of the people who did support the war supported it in whole/in part due to human rights concerns.

The idea that Americans would sit by while a liberal democracy with a good human rights record was invaded by us is so out of right field that I can’t really comprehend it. If people put up such resistance when one of the most human rights unfriendly governments on earth is overthrown and a liberal democracy is attempted to be put in its place what makes people think invading a country like Canada wouldn’t be 10x worse?

Let Canada & Mexico get nukes, I don’t mind.

#12

It would be hard to get regular US citizens riled up against Canada. We can’t accuse Canada of agression, they never attacked anyone. Ditto torture - they don’t do it. We can’t claim to be defending democracy and freedom, because there is no tyrant or military dictator there. We can’t call them Muslim extremists cuz they ain’t. Let’s face it. Canadians aren’t guilty of anything that we could accuse them of. They’re also right next door. We don’t have thousands of miles to separate us from the truth or falsehood of any claim that could be made. Other than that, if Canada decided to join the nukies, it’s their country and their money. Just don’t drop bombs on us please.

#13

I don’t remember any significant protests until long after the invasion. People did not put up much Resistance
; they still haven’t as far as I can tell. Complain, yes, but resist ? Nope. They didn’t even vote Bush and friends out, much less start bombing as kidnapping like your scenario.

#14

Why would the US even consider attacking a country that would willingly sell us the resources. The cost of a large scale military action (in both politcal and monetary terms) would be ridiculously high as compared to just say, offering to take that oil sand off your hands for a few gazillion bucks.

#15

Iraq was willing; that didn’t stop us. Besides, part of the point is to deny it to others, like China. The whole Project for a New American Century thing.

#16

That’s one the silliest things I’ve ever read on this board.

Even if your outrageous claims were true, are you aware that Canada is a member of NATO? If the US invaded, every other NATO member would be obliged to intervene on Canada’s behalf. Including the US.

#17

“Aw, shoot! Quebec’s got the Bomb!”

#18

Such an invasion would never happen. Unlike Iraq, we have powerful allies. Also, our insurgents would look just like you.

Hypothetical friction between the U.S. and Canada aside, no: we should not develop nuclear weapons. We are signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and that’s that.

#19

Don’t bother with Nukes. US won’t invade.
US will start a massive media campaign to form the NAU (North American Union). It would be sold as the only way for our great people to keep our economies strong and secure ourselves from TERRORISTS.
It will start as USA, Canada & Mexico. It would downplay the fact that the USA would be a dominant partner.
They would build up fears about China’s economy overwhelming the West and the EU getting too strong.
As concessions they would promise universal health care that would combine the best of Canada and USA’s health systems. They would never actually deliver.
The standard of living will rise again. Probably won’t deliver.

If it was the republicans in power they will eventually destroy your environmental protections.
If it were the democrats, they would be very disorganized and somehow reduce the military as they combined them.

#20

I’m not convinced that good Canadian-American relations will remain over the long term. The USA turned on us pretty quickly when we refused to invade Iraq – the threat of economic repercussions by the US Ambassador to Canada was very chilling, and the USA has been quite willing to econcomically devestate many of our communities that rely on the softwood lumber industry. It makes me wonder what the USA would do should it truly need our oil or water in times when we need it for ourselves. I am worried that the USA would liberate us rather than suffer its economy moving north to where resources are available, or otherwise grind to a halt. As the supply of oil drys up, and as other nations in the world develop and therefore increase the demand for oil, Canada would be a pretty plum ripe for the picking.