10 hours of street harassment

[Robert163]

@LinusK

Not much to see here. What I’m not seeing is responses to the topic. Instead, a group resorting to playground-style bullying tactics:** iiandyiiii, Jimmy Chitwood, monstro** and Freudian Slit.

So I’m speaking to you: Yes, I know it makes you feel powerful to be part of a group shaming and belittling someone. But what it actually means is that you’re small-minded, childish, and weak. Specifically, weak-minded. Grown-ups speak their minds, even if people disagree with them. Weak-minded people resort to name-calling and piling on. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Well, we’ve all now gone beyond the the limits of IMHO normal comments, but, I would suggest two things to you LinusK:

1- When making a thread about how a series of persistent, unwanted and crude comments are not actually harassment, try not to complain when others make “persistent, unwanted and crude comments” about your thread.

2- If you want people to take MRA issues seriously and give those issues the attention you feel they deserve, try giving others the same consideration with their issues… even if you don’t agree with them.

[robertliguori]

Do we really have to do this over this crap? There is one (1) clinic that provides abortions in the entire state of Mississippi, that is under siege from a variety of attacks ranging from the legal to the blatantly illegal. Given the clustering effect of “Poor.”, “Lives in Mississippi.”, “Difficulties acquiring long-term birth control for financial reasons.” and “Difficulties traveling out-of-state, possibly repeatedly due to stupid-ass waiting period laws.”, this means that the health and long-term futures of a great many women are being put at risk. If we’re going to have to fight this war, can we at least fight it over territory that goddamn matters?

[Asimovian]

@Shakes

Actually, I don’t care if this thread turns out to be six pages long. I stupidly thought you might be interested in educating yourself. But hey, if you’re more interested in this narcissistic posting style of yours, have at it.

@Jimmy_Chitwood

Guys, feel free to ignore this thread.

Guys! Just ignore me.

Bump.

If you’re not interested just don’t read it. Guys!

Bump.

Hey! Hey! When I don’t like a thread I just don’t post to it and it goes away. Just don’t read this!

@monstro

With the past couple of weeks or so, LinusK has gone from a poster who seems like a decent fellow with interesting opinions to one-trick pony who needs to sit his ass down somewhere.

I think he must have fallen in with a bad crowd.

Anyone who is interested in disparaging another poster needs to take it to The Pit. It’s not appropriate in this thread or forum.

@LinusK

Not much to see here. What I’m not seeing is responses to the topic. Instead, a group resorting to playground-style bullying tactics:** iiandyiiii, Jimmy Chitwood, monstro** and Freudian Slit.

So I’m speaking to you: Yes, I know it makes you feel powerful to be part of a group shaming and belittling someone. But what it actually means is that you’re small-minded, childish, and weak. Specifically, weak-minded. Grown-ups speak their minds, even if people disagree with them. Weak-minded people resort to name-calling and piling on. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

This goes for you, as well. If you have a problem with a post, use the report button. Personal insults are not allowed in this forum. Knock it off.

[Ibanez]

I can only imagine what it’s like being a moderator here at times.

[iiandyiiii]

@LinusK

Not much to see here. What I’m not seeing is responses to the topic. Instead, a group resorting to playground-style bullying tactics:** iiandyiiii, Jimmy Chitwood, monstro** and Freudian Slit.

So I’m speaking to you: Yes, I know it makes you feel powerful to be part of a group shaming and belittling someone. But what it actually means is that you’re small-minded, childish, and weak. Specifically, weak-minded. Grown-ups speak their minds, even if people disagree with them. Weak-minded people resort to name-calling and piling on. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

What “name-calling and piling on”? What “bullying tactics”? What post should I be ashamed of myself about? Seriously – which post (I made two in this thread before this one)?

What is it you want to discuss? Why not look through that other thread and see what people posted? If you think you have anything new to offer, feel free.

[LinusK]

I was hoping somebody would have something substantive to say.

Since no one does, I’ll simply point out that if you want to spend your time bashing me, there is a place specifically made for that purpose.

It’s called “The Pit”. I’d suggest you take your insults there.

[iiandyiiii]

@LinusK

I was hoping somebody would have something substantive to say.

Since no one does, I’ll simply point out that if you want to spend your time bashing me, there is a place specifically made for that purpose.

It’s called “The Pit”. I’d suggest you take your insults there.

I’d love to have a discussion. What would you like to discuss?

And again, what post should I be ashamed about?

[JVDaly]

@elbows

The director addressed the issue of less white men by explainng that white guys have a different technique, they tend to step in very close and speak very softly, so as not to be overheard. So a lot of that didn’t make the tape as it wasn’t really noticeable and the equipment didn’t pick up their remarks! So NO, not just black men!

(Just read the other thread already!)

I’m sorry, but that director’s excuse just melted my bullshit detector into a puddle. Working class black guys catcall more. It’s a culture thing. End of story.

[Melbourne]

@Joey_P

Here’s 700 posts on the subject
Shoshana Roberts, a street walker (10 hours,) films herself being "harassed." - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board

700 posts of SDMB harassment.

[madsircool]

Linus might understand better if he were Lucy.

[handsomeharry]

@elbows

Let me explain it to you. Did you see a couple of really creepy guys in there? The kind you want to just punch in the throat? Yeah, we all did.

Here’s what men cannot seem to understand, and that all women know from bitter experience; What looks to you like innocent compliments are just disguised opening lines. If the women should acknowledge those innocent remarks and compliments in any way, including a glance or a smile, that guy is going to step it up and he’s going to make the creep we all wanted to punch look like a choir boy!

Why is this concept so hard for men to comprehend?

Just because you don’t know what’s going on does not mean that men do not understand. Men understand. But, have you ever, EVER, had a serious discourse, open, free, non-judgemental, about what men do or do not understand, in social interactions?

I suspect that the answer is ‘no’, and that you only read Youtube posts, or listen to yourself when you are pissing about ‘misogyny’ or some such, or a drive-by post, for your information about what men understand. If I am wrong, please let me know.

[LinusK]

OK, originally I promised myself I wasn’t going to come back to this thread, but I broke that promise to myself.

First all, I apologize to iiandyiiii. I think I misinterpreted what s/he was saying, so I apologize.

Secondly, I did go back and read the first page of the other thread. I did not read the whole thing. I did read the first page, and here are some things I noticed: First of all, the thread is 740 posts long; second, it’s in “The Pit”; third, the person who started was BANNED.

Some comments, from the first page only:

[ul]
[li]I’m not going to feed the troll.[/li][li]Can we all agree to ignore any more posts made by this idiot?[/li][li]You really are a fucking imbecile.[/li][li]Prior disgusting threads by the sexist OP: … [/li][li]This type of harassment is in the eye of the harassee. You may not feel this was harassment, and I may not feel it was harassment (I think most, but not all was) but that doesn’t count for anything. What counts is how the person walking down the street feels about it.[/li][li]I think the OP is just having a Nerdgasm watching some girl walk.[/li][li]I think the word the OP was looking for is woman. He’s clearly terrified of most of us.[/li][li]Well, what do the Freepers say first, you scuz? Not to be all durpy or anything, but there are a few times when I wish assholes like you could be sued for defamation (or whatever it is that I’m actually aiming for). [/li][li]Calling her something she is not is low for even disgusting bile like you, so I hope with upping your game, you get busted in some way over your stroke material. Pig.[/li][li]Hey, that’s right… kstarnes is a fucking moron. I almost forgot![/li][li]The OP is a misogynistic dipshit.[/li][li]Thread reported for the offensive title.[/li][/ul]

Now, that’s from the 1st page, only. There are 15 pages in the thread.

So, there’s something going on. I don’t know what it is. Maybe it’s the topic. Maybe it was the OP. But I’ll assume it’s not just me.

Anyway. I don’t live in NY. I been there, and I love it. But I live in Texas. The general rule here is that if someone says, “Hi” or “Have a nice day,” you acknowledge them and says something nice back. But some folks seemed to be saying that if you’re a man and you say anything to a woman, it’s harassment, which seemed… strange to me. Of course, I realize manners vary from place to place. And I admit - personally - that I avoid saying anything to women wearing mini-skirts, high-heels, revealing tank-tops and other “look-at-me” clothes (here in Texas), because they’re liable to assume I’m hitting on them. And I don’t need the drama. (To be clear: I have nothing against women wearing sexy clothes: in fact I’d go so far as to say I appreciate it.)

JVDaly: Yeah. I asked why the director should feel ashamed there weren’t more white men in the video, and didn’t get an answer. It seems like political correctness run amok, to me.

Melbourne: What do you mean? If you prefer to PM me, feel free.

madsircool: Who is Lucy?

Acsenray: I’m not asking you to do anything. If you’re tired of this topic, don’t want to start from square one, or are in anyway disinclined to participate, please feel free to stop clicking on this thread. It literally takes no time, energy, money, or anything else from you to not click your mouse. There are literally hundreds of other topics you can pick from, or you could start one of your own. If you’d prefer to hate on me, please feel free to start a thread in “The Pit”. Or start another one, if there’s one already there.

Roderick Femm: You’re right: I’ve never been a woman. Most men have never been women. Most women have never been men. When you said, “it is clear the OP has never been a woman” what is it you were getting at?

[elbows]

Didn’t get an answer on why more white men don’t appear? Are you kidding me? It was explained to you in post 14 of this thread. Either you need to read for comprehension or you’re just looking for an argument.

These are naturally argumentative people, mostly on this board, but why would they engage with someone unwilling to catch up to the conversation, and just wants to start in again at the beginning? We’re not here to spoon feed you because reading is too hard for you!

I’d like you to note that you have spent most of this thread ragging on others. You want to rehash a lengthy discussion but can’t focus enough to read the existing thread? And this is supposed to make others want to engage with you? Or admire your intellect? Or consider you have something new to bring to the discussion?

Also you’ve ragged at everyone who chose to first direct you to that thread instead of engaging with you, but what has been your response to those few people who actually attempted to address your questions, or offer you the short answers from that thread?

You have ignored them like they didn’t even post! Choosing instead to just rag away at everyone else who didn’t. This does not reflect well on you or your motives. Something to think about!

Wishing you Good Luck!

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

@LinusK

I was very surprised after watching it. I expected to be horrified. But, many of the comments were: “Have a nice day” “Hello” “What’s up” and similar comments.

I don’t remotely consider this street harassment. People say things like this to me every single day. I say, “You too” “Hi” and “Not much”. I usually smile, or nod my head, when I’m doing it. I don’t remotely consider it street harassment, or harassment of any kind.

The exercise is already bankrupt here. Already the “discussion” you’re looking for can’t be a good faith one. Like you said, it’s only two minutes. So why mischaracterize it like this? Here’s every comment from the video, just the words:

“How you doing today? Smile. I guess not good. Smile!”
“What’s up, beautiful? Have a good day.”
“Hey what’s up girl? How you doing? Somebody’s acknowledging you for being beautiful. You should say thank you more! For real?”
“God bless you mami… damn.”
“Hey baby.”
“Hey beautiful.”
“How are you this morning?”
“Have a nice evening.”
“Nice.”
“Damn. Damn!”
“Hi beautiful. Sexy! American Eagle!”
“Hello good morning. God bless you; have a good day, all right?”
“Damn.”
“How you doing?”
“How you doing, good?”
“Sweetie?”
“Hey, lookit there, I just saw a thousand dollars!”
“Damn, girl.”
“You don’t want to talk? Because I’m ugly? Huh? We can’t be friends? Nothing? You don’t speak? If I give you my number, would you talk to me? Too ugly for you?”
“What’s up, miss?”
“How you doing?”
“Have a nice evening, darling.”

Two things about this. First, the obvious point: it’s disingenuous beyond any further need for reasonable argument to pretend that the verbal content of those interactions is what’s important. Oh, all the guy did was say good morning, and that’s harassment? How absurd! Except he followed her for at least a few blocks. Focusing on the words ignores the fact that they’re staring at her ass, or following her, or approaching her, or circling behind her, or that they’re shifting tone from solicitous and mild to aggressive and demanding. All of these things are obvious. But your blithe “many of the comments” overlooks them entirely. Almost as if in support of an agenda.

That’s the obvious reason your position is bankrupt - harassment is conduct, not words. But here’s the other thing. Even just by the words alone, you are outright not telling the truth when you say that you’ve ever had an experience like this one. It isn’t true. And you’re saying it happens to you every single day. It has never happened to you, ever. What has happened to you is that somebody says hello or good morning or how are you. Nobody has ever spoken to you the way that woman was being spoken to. Of course, you left an out - you said that people say things like “many” of those comments, right? Not that you have actually had that experience. Then why bring it up? It’s obvious why.

People aren’t engaging you on this because why bother? You’ve already showed your hand. You must know the position you’re going to have to explain away (which is the obvious god-damned position that any human being in that woman’s position would be made to feel vulnerable and uncomfortable being subjected to that spectrum of interactions in the course of a single day), and and you’ve already explained it away by pretending that what’s happening in that video is anything like anything you’ve ever experienced, because the bare words of at least “many” of those interactions can be equated to the bare words of interactions you’ve had. You have, essentially, preemptively said you aren’t willing to consider what it’s actually like to be that woman. And that’s the only important thing here. So why bother?

[msmith537]

@LinusK

Last self bump, and I promise, swear to god, hope to die, I won’t do it again.

Man Gets Harassed Over 30 Times In 3 Hours Walking In NYC

This one was LOL. Particularly when the woman with her boyfriend/husband/whatever does a complete 180 to stare at him from behind, and her boyfriend grabs her arm and is like “WTF”?? and they start fighting.

It’s also funny because, while I certainly think he’s better-than-average looking, I didn’t think he was that hot. But then, I’m a man, so maybe my hotness meter for men is poorly calibrated.

This one by FunnyorDie of a white man walking around NYC is pretty funny too.

[Surreal]

@elbows

The director addressed the issue of less white men by explainng that white guys have a different technique, they tend to step in very close and speak very softly, so as not to be overheard. So a lot of that didn’t make the tape as it wasn’t really noticeable and the equipment didn’t pick up their remarks!)

Not true.

Director of catcalling video responds to race debate | CNN

Thursday morning on CNN’s “New Day,” Roberts discussed her experience with the catcalls, noting that because she was carrying two microphones while Bliss walked ahead of her with a backpack camera, “We had great audio.”

[AnaMen]

I’m a woman. I often hear similar things, and I consider some of these harassment and some not. If someone else feels harassed by all of them, that is their experience and it’s perfectly valid, but so is mine. I don’t care if random men speak to me, unless they are threatening or demanding. Anyone who seems to be purposely following me is definitely disturbing, telling me to smile or complaining if I don’t respond as they wish is annoying, but a silly compliment or “have a nice day” just isn’t upsetting to me in the slightest and does not make me feel vulnerable. I feel happy and confident walking around and see no benefit in assuming a dangerous subtext to every remark I hear.

The whole “men don’t get it” and “all women know this” rhetoric is tiresome. These types of generalities and stereotypes are offensive and serve no positive purpose.

I also don’t understand the attitude of exasperated annoyance so many people on this board have towards a topic they don’t want to discuss. I guess some of you have a membership plan that obligates you to reply to every thread and the relentlessness of this chore has made you bitter and angry. Im glad I haven’t been forced into such a situation, as it must be very difficult. If you need signatures for a petition for relief from this burden, you can count on my support.

[iiandyiiii]

@Surreal

Not true.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/30/living/women-catcalling-white-men-race/

There were multiple white catcallers in the video, so I don’t see this as an issue at all.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

@AnaMen

I’m a woman. I often hear similar things, and I consider some of these harassment and some not. If someone else feels harassed by all of them, that is their experience and it’s perfectly valid, but so is mine. I don’t care if random men speak to me, unless they are threatening or demanding. Anyone who seems to be purposely following me is definitely disturbing, telling me to smile or complaining if I don’t respond as they wish is annoying, but a silly compliment or “have a nice day” just isn’t upsetting to me in the slightest and does not make me feel vulnerable. I feel happy and confident walking around and see no benefit in assuming a dangerous subtext to every remark I hear.

The whole “men don’t get it” and “all women know this” rhetoric is tiresome. These types of generalities and stereotypes are offensive and serve no positive purpose.

I also don’t understand the attitude of exasperated annoyance so many people on this board have towards a topic they don’t want to discuss. I guess some of you have a membership plan that obligates you to reply to every thread and the relentlessness of this chore has made you bitter and angry. Im glad I haven’t been forced into such a situation, as it must be very difficult. If you need signatures for a petition for relief from this burden, you can count on my support.

You can likewise count on my support if you ever decide to rid yourself of all the straw demons you’re under assault from.

[AnaMen]

@Jimmy_Chitwood

You can likewise count on my support if you ever decide to rid yourself of all the straw demons you’re under assault from.

Hmmm, I am able to walk down the street and feel fine no matter how many people tell me to have a nice day or “catcall” me, but you think I am imagining myself to be under assault? Does not compute.

But thank you for your offer!