I am also a human woman, and if I experienced the entire spectrum of those remarks in one walk, no matter how long it was, I would feel uncomfortable. Random men saying “Hi” and “Good evening”? That alone wouldn’t – and doesn’t - bother me. But couple simple greetings with men following me, demanding I say thank you for their random compliments, telling me to smile, saying “damn, sexy,” “you don’t want to talk to me cause I’m too ugly for you” - the weight of the entire series of interactions would make me a feel a bit vulnerable. Even some of the more obnoxious comments - alone- would not mar my experience too much, if at all. But the point I take from the video is that it’s cumulative. If you are bombarded by it, even the apparently innocent remarks can become wearing.
You don’t feel vulnerable when a stranger follows you or tries to force interaction with you. Great. I may or may not, demanding on the circumstances of the encounter. But after hours of being approached, I think a feeling of vulnerability and discomfort is pretty reasonable.
The video compressed time and thus, rather obviously and purposely, created the impression of bombardment. Why not just show two minutes of walking around in real time instead of cherrypicking from ten hours? They are manipulating reality and people’s sympathies.
If you feel that remarks are wearing, discomfort-inducing, or whatever, that is your experience and perfectly valid as such. I just wanted to make clear that it isn’t unanimous–that there is at least one woman who does not feel this way about the topic and did not see the video exclusively as a series of troublesome encounters.
Yeah. My experience is the opposite where I live. Just the other day I had a nice conversation with a lady in the elevator. (She gave me the name of service that’ll deliver food to the building, which is helpful, because I sometimes eat at my desk.) She seemed friendly and pleased with the conversation.
I routinely say “Hi” or whatever to women, and usually they say something pleasant back. Now I’m going to elaborate a little on this, because I don’t want people thinking I only say “Hi” (or whatever) to women. It’s the same way with men. And it’s not like I’m some sort of oddball who’s the only one doing this. People, including strangers, routinely say something short and friendly to me, and I routinely respond back. (I, personally, would consider it extremely rude not to do so.) Short story: a friend from Boston was with me at a very large, very popular park where I live. There was a line we had to cut through to get where we were going. I said something (“Good afternoon” or something like that) to the man we cut in front of. Immediately after we were out of earshot, he asked, “Did you that guy?” and I said, “No, of course not.” It was a moment of cultural disconnect: I couldn’t understand why he’d think I knew that guy, and he couldn’t (I assume) understand why I would talk to someone I didn’t know.
Now there is an exception to this rule, which I may have mentioned upthread. If a woman is wearing “look at me” clothes (say short shorts with writing on the butt) I do not saying anything to them. They normally think I’m coming on to them, and I don’t need the drama. Also, if a woman is exceptionally attractive, I normally don’t say anything, unless it would be awkward not to. They don’t seem to want men to talk to them (or at least not me) so I don’t.
Now, like most of the country outside the Northeast, there is no subway here. So, obviously I don’t ride the subway. My understanding, from the two summers I spent in Boston (which has a great subway system) is that nobody says anything to anybody. Jon Stewart said something to that effect (paraphrasing): “Subways: where people from all walks of life gather to scrupulously ignore each other.” (I’m sure the way he said it was funnier.)
FWIW the city where I live has about a million people in it, and it’s in the South (although it’s a bastion of liberalism, in an otherwise sea of red).
Anyway, I disagree. Whlle I’m happy (well, to some extent, anyway) to adapt to the culture of wherever I am (When in Rome…), I think it would be strange to be friendly only to men, while ignoring women (with the exceptions already noted).
My take on the video, is that they were trying to gather as much bad behavior as they could: they videotaped for 10 hours, and went - I assume purposefully - through some of the more economically disadvantaged areas of New York. Over the course of ten hours, walking through one of the most densely populated places in the world, she crossed paths with many thousands of men. Despite that, they were able to gather less than 2 minutes of bad behavior. Some of which was not even bad behavior (although they said it was).
I certainly agree there was some utterly unacceptable behavior going on. And I condemn it.
But the message I got was the opposite of what they said they intended: I started out thinking they were trying to show what typical life was like for women. And I knew they were videotaping for ten hours, in NYC. So, I was expecting some really terrible shit. (And some of it was bad.) But out of ten hours, they got less than two minutes, and out of the two minutes, less than 2 minutes was actual harassment. To put it differently, if you spend 10 hours walking through some of the more dangerous parts of NYC, and you’re able to compile less than 2 minutes of harassment, I have to question whether that 2 minutes is really representative of most women.
In an interview, the director of the video, Rob Bliss, said, “It is our hope and intention that this video will be the start of a series to demonstrate that the type of harassment we’re concerned about is directed toward women of all races and ethnicities and conducted by an equally diverse population of men.” [bolding mine]
That’s not what I saw in the actual video, though. What I saw was that the actual harassers were men who seemed poor, marginalized, desperate, pathetic, probably unemployed, possibly homeless, and/or disempowered (or felt that way). What it appeared to me - and still appears to me - is that the message they say they were trying to send, and the message that’s actually in the video, are two different things.
raventhief: (And I’m guessing you’re a woman from the context of your message) Is the video representative of your daily life as a woman?
I’m sure I miss some opportunities to be friendly, and possibly to make someone’s day better, but I’m willing to make that tradeoff to avoid even a small chance of making someone feel uncomfortable. In my mind, that small risk is worse than missing the chance to contribute (slightly) to someone’s day.
Yep, in the subway I think this ‘rule’ is even stronger, because it’s a captive audience who can’t ‘get away’ if they’d like to.
I’m not particularly friendly to men either (same smile and nod, usually), but I still would rather not be friendly to people then to risk the chance to make a woman feel uncomfortable. Most of the young women I know tell me they are catcalled and approached nearly every day they are in public (or on the train), and I strongly want to avoid being a part of that. And I encourage others to do the same.
Who knows how much actual bad behavior they recorded – they likely chose 2 minutes as a good length for a ‘viral video’. That the video wasn’t longer doesn’t mean they didn’t have more material.
I noted several white catcallers, and many who didn’t seem homeless or otherwise extremely disadvantaged. The video reinforces the reports of many women I know who regularly walk around in the city (in this case, DC).
Yes, I am a woman, as I said in the first line you quoted. It’s not really representative of my life now, as I am in a rural area and very rarely walk anywhere. When I used to go into DC or NYC, yes, sometimes it was like that. I was rarely alone, but even in a small group there would be comments and catcalls. Alone, I would get chatted up, told to be friendlier, smile, say thank you when someone compliments me, asked out, and hollered at by slick charmers driving by.
Now, if I am wandering through my small town and people talk to me, it’s not generally an issue - it’s a small town with friendly people. Saying hello, or good evening, doesn’t bother me. I don’t feel hit on every time I venture outdoors. I do work with the public, and even with my wedding ring, I do get hit on at work. Random men come in and start chatting at me. Usually it’s just friendly banter, but occasionally it’s aggressive flirtation - my male coworkers may decide that maybe they have pressing business near me after all. Luckily that kind of uncomfortable flirtation happens very rarely.
The video text says that she was harassed more than 100 times in 10 hours. There were not that many instances shown in that two minutes. Perhaps they were looking for the “worst” – or maybe they were looking to show a range of encounters. I have no idea. But by showing the more “innocent” encounters, it seems to have sparked more of a discussion. Men who say just “friendly” things may examine their own actions, instead of saying, “well, clearly no one can be bothered by me- I don’t walk next to the women for 5 minutes or ask if they aren’t talking to me cause I am ugly.” Some men may see the video and say “I didn’t know that my friendliness in an inappropriate environment could contribute to a woman’s discomfort. Maybe I should rethink that.” Or some may think, “Screw that, I’m just being friendly. Why the hell would anyone think that’s harassment?!”
The thing that is interesting to me is that the woman in the video was clearly not receptive to being approached. Her body language and facial expression made it clear that she was not open to friendly conversation, much less flirtation. She wasn’t dressed sexy. She didn’t have “look at me” clothes on. Yet, she was still approached several times.
It’s not really representative of my life now, as I am in a rural area and very rarely walk anywhere. When I used to go into DC or NYC, yes, sometimes it was like that. I was rarely alone, but even in a small group there would be comments and catcalls. Alone, I would get chatted up, told to be friendlier, smile, say thank you when someone compliments me, asked out, and hollered at by slick charmers driving by.