11/13 Buffy (SPOILERS)

So that was it for Giles. I had asked a few weeks ago how many episodes with Giles we had left. Apparently the answer was “three.” Farewell, Giles. Hope BBC America shows “Ripper.”

Also apparently it for Tara. Bummer. If she is in fact gone, I will miss her. It’s been cool watching her blossom from the shy stammering child she was when Willow first met her at the “Wicca” group to the at least somewhat self-assured young woman she’s become. I’m sorry we won’t get to see her continue to grow.

Loved the identity mix-ups! Giles as “Randy’s” dad? Joan the Vampire Slayer? “Hey look, I’m a superhero too!” And a revisitation of a Willow classic: “I think I’m kinda gay.”

But what’s the deal with kittens as currency? Why kittens and not cats? And why, if Spike owes the loan shark (get it? Loan shark? Jeez…) kittens doesn’t he just rob an animal shelter?

I was wondering what ever happened to Amy-rat. Looks like she and Willow are going to have quite the party next week. Does anyone know if the “encore presentation” of the musical this Friday is a full-on encore or is it an edited-down hour version?

Spike owes siamese kittens. I have no idea why kittens, but he can’t just knock up an animal shelter for enough.

This episode was very funny during the memory loss. After, well the look that Tara gives Willow is the pure disgust I’d have felt. I would have throttled her after that.

I feel very bad for Tara, especially after how Dawn clearly chose sides. I hope she comes back in later episodes.

As a final note I really liked the interaction of Dawn and Buffy when they were without memory. They seemed to fit perfectly.

Interesting character note: Spike, with no memory of the chip in his head or his feelings for Buffy, is still a good guy. We’ve seen from countless scenes of vampires rising from their graves that they are instinctivly cruel and murderous. As soon as Spike woke up, he should have gone with his natural inclination: to kill and eat everyone in the room. I think this is the final proof that Spike has grown a soul.

Well, maybe. I think the conclusion is premature, though.

It would depend in part on the strength of his so-called “natural inclination.” It seems to me that if he genuinely thought he was human, he might choose to repress (or subconsciously repress) that desire. Additionally, he just might not have been hungry.

Besides, we have seen that vampires aren’t necessarily overcome by insatiable thirst in the presence of humans. In fact, since vampirism is a fictional malady, we don’t really have any indication of how primal its drives are. Ultimately, it’s a matter of writer’s fiat.

Ah, let’s not forget Spike’s “I’m a vampire with a soul,” schtick. Frickin’ hilarious!

Angel must have been turning in his grave, so to speak.

Last night’s episode was an example of something I see to often in Buffy - a good character show messed-up by a stupid monster plot (Land Shark!) As a matter of fact, that’s kind of why I hate jokes like “kitten poker”. Sure, it’s funny at the time, but it also becomes Established. And then someone comes along and does something like this.

That said, the “Tabula Rasa” stuff was really good. Funny too, in a character driven way. I loved the vampire-with-a-soul bit, as well as the shop slowly filling with bunnies (I like bunnies).

On the Buffy/Spike front - I notice that in the past couple of episodes Buffy has not expressed any emotional attachment to Spike. Not when she was forced to sing, not when she had amnesia, nothing. The closest we got was the “What else would I pump you for?” line. I have my own theory at this point, but my theories tend to be wrong, so I’ll wait 'till next week.

Finally - I really liked the “world” they woke up in. I like Randy as Giles younger brother, the vampire with a soul and Giles and Anya being engaged and Alex and Willow dating. And Joan the superhero. Is there some kind of alternate universe where this is real. Can we spend half a season there? Please?

Ah, but we haven’t seen the last of Giles, I’m sure. Joss Whedon is so loyal to his characters, I’m sure a Giles appearance on the season premire/finale will be an annual event. Not to mention the phone conversations we’ll hear about. And I’m sure they’ll make “What would Giles do?”-comments into a running gag…

Also, I hope that Ripper is shown on something a little more widely available than BBC America. PBS? (doubt it) Or maybe Bravo? Of course since FX has the rights to Buffy, maybe they’ll also pick up Ripper. Being the BBC, it’ll be a limited run series anyway. (6 episode/year…is that right?)

I read on another thread that she (Tara) was going to be a semi-regular on Ripper. Has anyone else heard this? Sounds like an internet rumor…is there any solid info on this show anywhere?

It’s what they play each other for in Demon-Poker. Y’know–the “kitty”. (Joss is a funny guy!). Yeah, it’s about as subtle as the “loan shark” guy…

From what I understand, it’s going to be edited down to one hour. HOWEVER, for those of us lucky enough to live in Chicagoland, our local UPN affiliate is currently negotiatingwith the network to re-air the full-length version again sometime. Due to the metor storm, our feed was choppy in parts.

The Tim

I don’t think Dawn was choosing sides. Tara and Willow have been acting as surrogate parents to Dawn for the past 3 months while Buffy was dead and buried. I think Dawn was is upset that Tara was leaving…she’s only 15 and probably doesn’t know how to handle it…so her sadness is coming out as anger.

Now THAT was a great Buffy episode! Far above the dreck we’ve seen the last couple of weeks. So long Tara, and don’t let the door hit you in your size 6 behind. Reassuring to see Dawn was just as useless in another reality as she usually is. Spike was great! “Hey, I’m a superhero too!” Lots of humor as well as emotion. Plus, it gave me the opportunity to explain to my kids the concepts of loan sharking and tabula rasa. Entertainment that’s educational as well! :smiley:

On the wierd side, I apparently had a kinda long and involved dream last night with a Harry Potter theme. Just about all I remember is that Tony Head was Dumbledore. Which was neat.

About the Amy-Rat-- the episode where she turns herself into a rat (sorry, the title escapes me at the moment) was on only a night or two ago on FX. It’s very cool when the reruns match up with something going on in the new ones, I think.

It seemed to me that Giles’s exit was rather abrupt-- I know there was a farewell scene when he left the first time, but I was surprised to see him on the plane while Buffy sat alone at the Bronze. I’m hoping there will be future guest appearances.

I would also like to say that I wish to become James Marsters’s love slave.

Let’s just be glad he didn’t choose to Auntie up. Ha. Auntie Emm, Auntie Anne, Auntie Rose…

[sub]Well, it was funny inside my head.[/sub]

I loved that while they forget nearly everything, they kept their innate character qualities…like the fear of bunnies.

Land/loan shark jokes aside, since they didn’t say specifically, he could’ve been Spike’s bookie too.

I also am hoping that Dawn was just overcome with sad emotions at seeing Tara leave, not that she was taking sides.

I think the Giles departure seemed appropriately done. Why re-do the tearful goodbye. I’ve seen that type of cut-away be used successfully elsewhere as well – close-ups letting you see the characters thinking. Made me think of the lyrics (intentional on the writer’s part, I’m sure) from last week’s “Where Do We Go from Here?”

Why is the path unclear?
When we know home is near?
Understand we’ll go hand in hand
But we’ll walk alone in fear

Anyway, I loved the humor of the episode undercutting the anger and hostility over Willow’s AGAIN misuse of magick. Next week’s previews did remind me a lot of “Bad Girls” when Faith and Buffy do the town, but still looks like a fun episode. Kinda sad though, that Willow has obviously had the power to bring Amy back for a while (given how much her powers have increased) and didn’t think to do so until now…

Gingerbread. Episode 45, season 3.
So Amy’s been a rat for almost three years (Tabula Rasa was Episode 108, season 6). I wonder how long it will take her to adjust to being human again. Seems to me like ages 17 to 20 are some critical years to have missed.

I really liked Spike’s development last night. I find it strange none of the characters woke up hungry, as it was full day when they fell asleep and full night when they woke up.
Did I see it correctly when he hit Buffy without the chip going off? Perhaps there was no “intent” to hurt her.

Let’s be fair. She did toss a stake to Xander/Alex (or was it Spike/Randy? I don’t recall) just when he needed one. She is becoming useful. She’s just taking her time doing so.

It was ‘Alex’ she threw the stake to, and I think Randy/Spike seems more appropriate. Grrrrr-oof! :wink:

And I loved how Spike figured out he was English, too, with the running list. Bollocks. <tee hee>

Anyone else notice some of the element of the “Dreams” season four finale in this episode? Spike in the suit following in Giles’ footsteps…like a son.

You think you know, but you don’t…

I really like how Willow’s descent is being framed as an addiction.

I doubt we’ve seen the last of Tara. It wouldn’t be surprising if Willow whammies her again on the way down. That could be a really interesting road, Willow as an overt emotional abuser. Maybe even physical - she’s dropped very broad hints to both Tara and Giles.

I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen a sympathetic character in that light before. I hope they don’t drop that angle just because Tara and Giles won’t be around.

Oh, I just got an idea that it would be cool if Oz made another return appearance as Willow spirals outta control…

Another thought about Buffy’s turning to Spike and her grim outlooking, wonder how a Riley-return would be taken/handled? (So far as we know he’s still alive somewhere in the jungle.)

Break-ups and even deaths on this show don’t necessarily mean a character is gone for good. We’ve seen Jenny Calendar several times since her death.

I liked:

Spike’s recitation of the “pitch” for the show Angel
Anya’s fear of bunnies replicated
Spike’s identifying with humans/good guys when he wakes up “behind the veil of ignorance”, as Rawls would say. :smiley:
Willow’s sexy evil look
The way they made the most emotionally wrenching episode of the season into something funny
The fact that Tara finally grew a spine, a pair, what have you
The way Willow’s descent into “grr” is an addiction or an example of power corrupting

Oh, and slackergirl, you are right - she is emotionally abusive.

The fact that others might finally notice this descent
The preview for next week

I disliked:

The cheapass, bad joke, loan shark
Taking the “kitten gambling” joke WAY too far
Dawn. Okay, I dislike her in every episode.
The overacting during the tabula rasa part.

Overall I disliked the episode the most of any this season - any time the loan shark was on screen I was cringing.

Oh dear, or dearie dear. I just realized that with Tara out of the way, Dawn is the next likely target for Willow’s abusive tendencies. Should be interesting to see how far the writers take that thread, and how long Buffy will be blind to it, as this will part of the “what else has changed” in the six months she was dead. Hmmm, a tie in with Spike’s protectiveness of Dawn would be interesting too, although they seem to have abandoned the idea since Buffy’s return.
Given Amy’s tendency to use the dark side, she seems like the best companion for Willow’s descent.

When we talk about Willow’s descent, we all remember last season when she happened to make sure that Dawn got her hands on the book with the spell to raise her dead mom, right? They ended up going to see the Joel Grey Demon in the end, but Willow tried to abet dead-raising in the past.

  1. Dawn will channel her teen angst into interest in Wicca. She will idolize Willow and become her little apprentice. Willow will welcome Dawn’s worship as she becomes more and more isolated from the Scoobies. Buffy will be oblivious until the damage is done.

  2. They will bring Oz back briefly. February sweeps perhaps? (Okay, this may be wishful thinking and mid-afternoon Seth Green fantasizing on my part, but I still think it would be cool)

  3. Willow and Spike will have a confrontation, Big Time. Spike has seen through Willow for a season.
    Buffy will have to choose sides.

Anyone else?

I just want to say, I love talking Buffy with you guys. This seems to be the only place on the web where a rational discussion is possible between Buffy geeks, even when we disagree. Yay for us! Plus, Pixellent likes the show, but he wearies of my yapping about it as I weary of his recitations of the plot of Enterprise. But I can always count on you guys to revel and wallow with me! And only you guys would understand the dream I had where I WAS Buffy!

Yes, I know. What I’m saying is it’s a completely useless currency, unless there’s something being done with the kittens that can’t be done with adult cats. Why set up a currency that literally has a daily depreciation rate?

Agree that Dawn wasn’t choosing sides. She’s been through a lot in the last few months. She lost one parent, then her sister/parent surrogate, then she gets Buffy back but loses another parent surrogate. I’m hoping that the scenarion of Dawn turning to Willow doesn’t play out, as it would undermine Dawn’s reaction to Tara’s departure.

Re Amy-rat: we don’t know how long it’s been since the last time Willow’s tried to restore her. We know from various episodes that Willow’s been trying all along without success (except a momentary one which Willow didn’t even notice). Presumably with Buffy’s death, restoring Buffy became Willow’s top priority. We’ll see next week how complicated it will be for Willow to work the de-rat mojo. Me, I’m just waitin’ for the go-go boys.

And I have a theory that it will be revealed by season’s end that Willow is actually under the control of a powerful and evil bunny cabal. Bunnies, bunnies, it must be bunnies!