11/13 Buffy (SPOILERS)

Personally I like Dawn as a character. I think Michelle plays her well and that the writers do echo Buffy in her, which is appropriate considering that Dawn was created from her. I also think the monks that created her didn’t forge her so much as take some of Buffy, turn it into a little sister and update reality. I’d really like to hear more about her creation. As for her reaction to Willow/Tara splitting I think that she is taking sides, at least to the extent that she refuses to admit that Tara has to leave. It seems to me that she blaims Tara for the break up because Tara is the one leaving. I think we’ll have to see how she treats Willow in the comming episodes. I remember Buffy saying she took the divorce of their parents very badly.

I think Amy is going to get used up rather quickly. Willow is pissed and looking for someone who’ll excuse her excesses but will tire of Amy and do something to not have to deal with her anymore.

On a related note I think Amy was kept a rat for that long because Willow didn’t want to risk messing up the spell and actually hurting someone. Right now I doubt she cares enough about the chance of not fully restoring Amy.

I’m sure that Willow is going to get very emotionally abusive, and I agree with magdalene that it might be Dawn whose the victim. Spike isn’t less protective of Dawn since Buffy is back, I think he’s just less prone to be around because of Buffy.

I still predict that Willow is going to “handle” the geek trio. Should they do something that crosses a line, something they might even regret, she is going to come down on them like she did on Glory. Since they aren’t gods those knives are going to do a lot more.

Anyway I had, and still have, high hopes for this season. I have yet to be disapointed.

Upon preview I notice a post by Otto. I think my idea of taking sides is that she is refusing to recognise Tara’s need/right to leave as opposed to an adult taking sides in a normal break up.

As for kittens all I can imagine is that you sell them to sorcerers as familiars. Or that they’re tasty.

Other than altering Tara’s memory, what has Willow done that’s gone horribly wrong? or was horribly bad? Sorry for the ignorance, I’ve been catching up on the FX re-runs.

If we cut Willow some slack for not having had the experience that magic can go horribly wrong, it easy to see where she believes she has not harmed anyone, at least at the beginning of Once Again With Feeling. Most of the spells I’ve seen her do have succeeded or been no-result.

I’m willing to argue that Willow is way to casual with her use of magic because she has not had any hard repercussions yet. Tara’s caution may partly spring from nearly getting the scoobies killed when she made them blind to demons(Family, fifth season).

Tara is very sensitive to mind alteration because Glory stole her sanity last season.

Willow messed up a spell relating to Oz which made Spike and Buffy seem like they were inlove and did some other strange things. She was considered for a vengance demon possition as a result. The episode details are fuzzy. But she has messed up, is way to casual with magic and mind alteration is a sore spot with Tara.

Also, when Xander and Willow started cheating with eachother on their respective SOs, back in season three, she tried to do an anti-love spell on her and Xander, without Xander’s knowledge or permission. Wathcing the re-runs of FX, I’m seeing no end of foreshadowing for this, although I may be making most of it up.

Re: Spike’s behavior under amnesia: Even without their memories, everyone’s personality was basically the same. (Although Buffy was quite a bit sunnier, which was refreshing.) Spike, a vampire, is naturally duplicitous, schemeing, murderous, etc. For the last few years, he’s been keeping this in check because of the chip, and later, because of his feelings for Buffy. With amnesia, he should have reverted to his vampire nature: not necessarily attacking the Scoobies, but at least looking for an opportunity to abandon or sell them out to save his own life. He didn’t do that. I take that to mean that the changes in his personality are permanent: that he’s a genuine good guy now, more or less.

Actually, I was sort of hoping he’d revert to his useless, foppish self from before he was ever vamped. Alas, nary an “effulgent” in sight.

Over all, I liked the episode, even the Loan Shark. The minute I saw him, I knew somebody on this board would make a crack about “shark-jumping” <glares at magdalene>. At first I groaned, but I think that he served a purpose. He was Joss’ way of saying “Don’t worry about this guy, he’s not important to the plot.” He, and his kittens, were just McGuffins with pointy teeth, something for the mind-wiped Scoobies to react to.

<Giggle>, yes the de-lusting spell. But they were interrupted before she could finish the spell. I would say that this supports my theory that until Once More With Feeling Willow had never personally paid for her magic gone wrong. Certainly, not telling Xander about the spell she was going to place him under is forshadowing bad things.

Can’t wait to see the episode with Spike and Buffy in love. I didn’t know that was Willow’s fault. Did all end well? Or did Willow pay for her meddling?


A summary of that episode.

Willow doesn’t get much of a scolding really, and she stops the spell before anything that bad happens. So this is the first real costly mess up.

BTW, anyone else notice the complete lack of fallout for Xander and/or Dawn for summoning the demon last week? Kinda frustrating, I thought. Guess if was goofy Xander, up to his hijinks again, after all. Nevermind the two or three innocent people who got incinerated. Sigh.

Once More With Feeling … [cringe].

This is Joss Whedon’s brain on crack …

I can understand why Tara was so upset. If Willow has been caught performing mind altering magic once, who knows how many times she’s done it? How many fights have I forgotten, how many wrongs do I not remember? Is my love for her real, or magic-induced? Not 24hrs after promising to not use magic, Willow betrayed that trust and tried to make her forget again. No way in hell I’d ever stick around with a chick like that.

Willow has done some truly awful things this season, it’ll be fun seeing how it all turns out.

According to one of the demons at the poker table, kittens are delicious. Siamese must be especially tasty.

Anybody besides me keep expecting them to burst into song, particularly Giles on the plane while the girl was singing?

Getting back to Giles…I think he’ll be back. We never got to see a “Goodbye” scene between him & his slayer. There was really no closure between him & any of the Scoobs.

Although I think that it was pretty funny that the only person who Giles gives a “Goodbye” hug to was Spike!!! Who woulda thunk it?

It’s been established that Giles is receiving a salary from the Watchers Council. Now that he’s going back to England “indefinitely”, I wonder why nobody’s suggested that Buffy get his salary. Considering the financial difficulty she’s had to face, isn’t it strange that the Council makes no provision for paying the Slayer?

IIRC, Tara is not leaving the show. She’s just leaving Willow. Amber Benson is by no means gone from the show.

I think that this year might be about Willow falling and redeeming herself. Right now she’s rapidly accellerating towards rock bottom (and possible big bad) and it’ll be interesting to see where they go from there.

From what we’ve seen the slayers either live with their families’ support (Buffy) or with their watchers (Kendra). Presumably Kendra’s watcher was getting some sort of per-diem for her maintenance, although as Kendra seemed to have neither a social life or possessions she must have been very inexpensive to maintain.
It seems to be the opinion of the council that since slayers don’t normally live very long, there is no point in putting them on the payroll.
Also, Buffy is only an “unofficial slayer” since her first death, and the death of Kendra, Faith is the official (although rouge) slayer. I imagine that the council doesn’t consider Buffy to be their problem.

I don’t know that there’s a question of “official” or “unofficial” when it comes to Slayers. The PTB called Buffy; I don’t know how much more “official” she can get. When the Council fired Giles, Buffy pretty much ignored the Council from that point forward, as evidenced by her indifference to Wesley. Last season, with the Glory problem, Buffy and the Council reached a detente by which Giles was reinstated with (cough)back pay(cough) and they agreed to share information.

While I’ve pretty much loved Tara’s character from the beginning, I think it should be neat seeing her on her own, and seeing some real conflict between her and Willow as Willow starts to turn bad. Personally, I’m hoping for seriously evil Willow being fought by stronger than you’d guess BackboneTara.

I think it’s interesting that they didn’t make a big deal out of the fact that Willow is doing exactly what Giles was doing when he was her age, as Ripper, and we all know how that turned out…

Another thing about Buffy’s definition of Heaven: a featureless, sensationless void where there was no pain, and she had the feeling that her family and friends were probably okay. I realize that compared to the way her life had been for the past year, that would be a welcome relief, but that’s not how Heaven is typically described in the literature…

Dude, weren’t you listening to Tara? There are zillions of Heaven dimensions.


I don’t understand your criticism about Buffy’s understanding that she was in heaven. In “Afterlife” what Buffy said was, “I knew that everyone I cared about was all right. I knew it. Time … didn’t mean anything … nothing had form … but I was still me, you know? And I was warm … and I was loved … and I was finished. Complete. I don’t understand about theology or dimensions, or … any of it, really … but I think I was in heaven.”

I’ll admit that Buffy’s version of heaven is notably short on harps, angel wings, and Osama’s 70 virgins to deflower, so what? It certainly wasn’t “sensationless”, otherwise how would she have felt warm and loved?

The last two episodes were the best of the year so far. The story of Willow’s descent has much greater possibilities than other “monster of the year” plots. Watching her spin out of control – and the possible ramifications, especially if she goes completely rogue, are just great.

It looks like she’s going to take another step into the darkness next week.

BTW, kittens are indeed tastier than grown cats. They’re mighty good with mustard. Trust me on this one.

Huh. That makes sense, I guess. I predict the Falling Anvils of Morals to Our Story being that it’s possible to feel warm and loved and still be alive…

Hey, did the loan shark say that spiked owed him four siamese kittens or forty siamese kittens? It doesn’t make much sense that Spike wouldn’t be able to scrape up four kittens, because that’s less than a litter, but if it was forty… that’s a little different.