Went to the tape, and Randy’s soul schtick was (paraphrasing) “I must be a noble vampire. Walking a path of redemption. I’ve grown a soul.”
Joan: “How pathetic is that?”
That’s proof enough for me.
The episode was vastly more amusing the second time, when you’re ready for the sad parts. And drunk as a lemur.
Willow did back down her first chance to be ee-vil, back when she was offered the spot as vengeance demon as a result of her almost curse on oz and the other werewolf (or am I mixing episodes).
And no one complained when she was explicitly using black magic against Glory. Then everyone approved. I was kind of suprised back then that there were no cautions about her use of black magic by Giles. Especially given the tendency of her magic to go way to powerfully (the little weather spell she cast on the beach that called up the storm)
You lost me. Why do you think this is proof? Seems to me that it was just supposition on his part.
The episode where she was offered the chance to be a vengeance demon was when she turned Giles blind, un-ratted and re-ratted Amy, made Buffy and Spike love each other, and did a few other things.
Nobody complained when she was fighting Glory because she was trying to keep life, the universe and everything from being destroyed.
He spoke as if walking the path to redemption and growing a soul is a thing that vampires sometimes do. It seemed to me he was citing some vampire lore rather than just coming up with it off the cuff. So if it’s happened before (yes, a debatable extrapolation, but as I said, I’m convinced), then it has to be what is happening to him presently.
I wonder if Willow’s instigating the removal of a soul from “Heaven” would constitute an evil act in and of itself. Presumably the PTB directed that Buffy go to Heaven after her death. Pulling her out of Heaven means Willow and the others have run athwart of the PTB. I wonder if there will be consequences beyond Willow’s descent.
FWIW, Willow has consistently referred to magic as “the black arts,” regardless of the type of spell she was doing. For example, when Anya cons her into helping her try to recover her necklace, Willow says something like “I’m always up for some black arts!” and later says she generally like her arts a little less black.
Disagree that Spike’s speech about growing a soul is evidence that he’s grown one. Also disagree that vampires growing souls is a part of vampire lore. Angel is consistently referred to as “the” vampire with a soul, which leads me to believe that he’s unique. I think Spike acted like he did because he forgot he was a vampire and acted in accordance with the cues he picked up from the people around him. Of course, Willow could always get ahold of Giles’ old paperweight and curse Spike…
The spell to ressurect Buffy had a lot of asking involved, so I think that the PTB released her from heaven at the request of Willow. There is a price to pay, and I think that the demon that was created is only one of them. However the PTBs probably could have denied Willow the Slayers return. Since Faith is in jail and Buffy can’t activate new Slayers by dying the PTBs probably wanted to restore her, but they aren’t big on doing things they aren’t asked to do.
I think that Willow’s referring to magic as the black arts is a half-joke. Sort of a sarcasism defense mechanism against the accusations that most people hurl at those that practice magic. The book she turned to when she wanted to go against Glory was called Darkest Majiks (IIRC). I think that there is a clear distinction, which Willow makes when taking something seriously, between happy friendly spells and the dilate the pupils to an unholy degree and irritate gods spells.
About cursing Spike, while Willow is quick to consider a magical way to solve a problem she often doesn’t think of big spells that would help. She reminds me of people I work with in my data structures class. They have a great grasp of how to hack out functional code, but they rarely take the time to understand the problem. So Willow can come up with powerful spells and apply them to obvious problems, but when it comes to actually addressing an issue she bungles it like she has in several episodes.
Anyone slightly creeped out by the way Willow has taken to calling Tara “Baby” during arguments. In that context it seems to carry a whole lot of ‘“Afterschool special” on abusive relationship’ baggage.
Or maybe that’s just me.
Andy L.
Unlikely, since the amnesia spell made everyone forget there were such things as vampires, vampire slayers, or magic in general. Also, up to now Angel has been “the” vampire with a soul. More likely, he was spouting generic Anne Rice vampire lore.
Willow was thought to be the best able to handle the abilities she possesses. She was thought not to have an evil side, nor a destructive, prideful ego. Also, the other Scoobies were pre-occupied about beating a God, getting married, and going to college. That is why, until her descent this season, she wasn’t called out for using the ‘Dark Arts’.
I think that Willow, with her increasing use and abuse of magic, will later develop the ability to control all aspects of everybody’s lives, including the un-lives of demons. I won’t be surprised if a few more demons join Buffy’s side in taking Willow out. That last spell she pulled was a real powerful one.
I think this was just Joss being funny, as it consisted of pretty much every description of Angel for the first season of that show.
The line forms behind me 
I loved this episode. I cried twice (I’m an emotional girly-girl) and laughed numerous times.
Crying scenes: (1) When Giles was telling Buffy why he’s going back to England. I found it heart-wrenching … more so for Giles.
(2) During the end, song portion. I was a little sad, but then started crying when we saw Giles on the plane because he left without saying goodbye!
Bits I found hysterical (That I can remember):
(1) Spike complaining about the alternate meaning of his name “Randy”. “Why didn’t you just name me Horny Giles?!”
(2) Anya’s conjuring up bunnies left and right. I know people have said that the joke’s been done to death, but I thought it was a nice touch.
(3) Willow telling Dawn that she thinks she’s “kinda gay”. I had just seen the Alternate Reality Willow episode the other day so that line was fresh in my mind.
There was more, I just can’t remember right now.
Random thoughts, since I’m tired and complete sentences are beyond me at this moment.
I loved the episode too. Most of it had me laughing. Their complete bewilderment and panic when seeing the vampires. Giles and Spike as father and son, complete with hug. Giles and Anya made a lovely couple too, I thought. The memories returning in mid-kiss was great. Willow’s “and I think I’m kinda gay” coming the day after I watch Doppelgangland again was well timed. Joan’s horror at seeing Randy was a vampire. And of course, the line about “how lame is that?”.
Watching Willow sitting there, depressed while Tara packed her stuff, and Dawn’s feeling of betrayal when Tara left rang pretty true for me. It’s the way I remember my break-ups. Seeing Giles on the plane… Oh, I’m going to miss him. And since I’ve been rooting for Buffy and Spike to get together, the ending was quite satisfying, despite the sadness.
And I’ve been listening to Michelle Branch’s “Good-bye To You” ever since.
Ahh, but there are lots of heaven-demensions, just as there are lots of hell-demensions. (Personally, if I ever wind up in a heaven-dememsion, I hope it’s a more interesting one then the one Buffy was in sounds like.)
Why can’t Buffy activate new Slayers by dying? I’ve been wondering why no new slayer popped up while she was dead. Is it that no new slayer will come along until Faith dies? Has that been established to be the case? Interesting complication if the case. With Faith in jail and Buffy dead, the world was slayerless for several months?
Yes, that’s the deal. When Buffy died the first time (the Master killed her, Xander brought her back) Kendra was “called up”. Dru killed Kendra and Faith was up. So the line of the Slayers now goes through Faith. I’m almost positive this was mentioned in one episode, but I don’t remember which one.
Yes, that’s been established to be the case. The slayers run through a line, and Buffy’s death can only produce one new slayer - which has already been done.
I need to know what you meant by this, Dinsdale. What does her ass being a size 6 have to do with anything? And is that supposed to be a slam?
She’s a size 8.
And, uh, is there supposed to be something wrong with that? I keep thinking that it’s sad when someone who is that small looks almost chunky next to the other actresses.
Dinsdale opined over in the Buffy: the Musical thread that he did not much care for the episode. Part of that thread centered around whether Tara looked fat. Someone mentioned that Tara looked to be about a size 6, a normal size and weight for her body type, and only looked “fat” in coparison with the size 2 women on the show.
As to whether it’s meant as a slam here, I dunno.