Why? Does personal tragedy somehow put you beyond reproach?
Your God, I really give a fuck what you think, spoke-.
Insightful and illuminating as always.
It’s a question of manners (or lack thereof). It’s a question of compassion (or lack thereof).
I take some comfort in the knowledge that (with his charming personality) Dinsdale is unlikely ever to reproduce, and that his genes, at least, will be “culled” from the “herd.”
Actually I did read the whole thread before I posted anything to this thread.
I’m sorry, I remember now, you have 3 daughters between 12 and 15 and you let them operate vehicles they are too young for.
I stand corrected. Pity.
Ratty,
I’m confused. In this thread I see no mention of spoke-'s personal tragedy.
So someone voluntarily enters the Pit, shares an unfortunate experience, and thereby eliminates all possibility for differences of opinion? I don’t think so.
Perhaps, just perhaps, tunabreath’s experience intereferes with his viewing this discussion - or even the events concerning the loss of his daughter - entirely objectively. And perhaps my lack of personal experience colors my opinion and deprives me of empathy.
Sure I did a bunch of stupid things when I was young. Heck, I was one of the most frequent contributors to the recent thread on the topic. And I continue to do stupid things. With and without my kids.
Ya know what? I knew the things I was doing were risky when I did them. And I was consciously grateful that my reckless choices didn’t bite me in the ass.
tunabreath’s kid directly acted contrary to specific instructions. I imagine different folk might choose different adjectives to describe such action. The kid - and her family - paid a really high price. But not an entirely unpredictable price, I daresay - even to a genius 11 year old.
Some times accidents just happen. Some things seem to involve luck - either good or bad. And some times folks miscalculate risks. Sometimes really lousy things happen to really good people.
As a result of his experience, tunabreath may qualify as an expert on how the loss of his child affected him. He has not written anything to show that his opinions on this or any other topic are intrinsically entitled to controlling weight.
Yes, he knew his child, unlike any of us. But that does not render us unable to express opinions and judgments based on the facts as he presented them.
spoke- - I wish I could convey how little I care about your opinion of me. But I do not care to expend the effort seeking the words…
Yes, well, boors do tend to have little regard for the opinions of others.
A more introspective person might pause to consider whether they had been unnecessarily offensive. (Say, for example, by implying that another poster’s deceased child was “stupid” or “foolish.”)
Are manners an alien concept to you?
I believe his parents were the ones who experienced the tragedy.
I’m sorry to hear that.
I suppose what it all boils down to for me is this:
Yes this boy was foolish. Incredibly so.
I personally can’t place a higher value on the loss of one child over another though. Even if one child is foolhardy.
The gators were getting too bold. Should they wait until a less foolish kid or pet is taken from the bank? Or a fisherman trips and falls out of a boat at the marina?
Unfortunately people live in the area, it would be nice if the area was still pristine but it isn’t.
I have absolutely no problem with differences of opinion. It’s part of what makes things interesting. We all have them and I would be quite surprised to find two people with identical ones.
My original post was to try to give a different perspective about loss. I believe all lives are valuable. However I value human over gator. I value tigers, gators, sharks, elephants etc. as equals. Well tigers and sharks and elephants and other endangered species over most other animals. I don’t like the idea of having to kill an animal to protect an area where people live but sometimes you must to protect your own.
Dinsdale, did I just get whooshed with some acidic sarcasm on your part?
If so, my appologies for the previous post to spoke-. I was used! Used I tell you!
I don’t want to offend anyone here, that is not why I’m here even though this is the pit. It is an interesting subject and that is why I responded in the first place. I believe strongly in civility.
That is all.
I understand why those alligators were killed, specialists in Florida had decided it was necessary.
…but
The fate of them was decided by a child who knew better, the alligators comitted no offence other than behaving like alligators.
When a child is injured or killed by machinery, I really have to wonder how this ocurred, in litigious America it is not enough either to warn someone of an obvious danger, or just to put up warning notices. Dangerous environments must be guarded, or fenced off, policies of access must be produced, and risk assessments must be carried out.
For any child to be injured by farm machinery it screams to me that something somewhere was not right, words of warning, as a sole safety measure, would not be acceptable.
I have to think there is more to it than this.
Not knowing more I would tend to default to the case that this child was let down by faulty safety procedures, and although personally reckless, much of the blame lies elsewhere.
I do not see any comparison between that child and the one killed by alligators, except in age and finall result.
I’m certainly cool with everything in your last post, tuna. I also value civility, as well as plainspeaking. I understand that sometimes bluntness offends where no offense was intended.
I think I do disagree with your unwillingness to value different losses of life differently. Either for kids or adults. No, I can imagine a parent wouldn’t hurt more or less if their kid died from drowning, gator attack, cancer, or suicide. But I think an outside observer can evaluate the circumstances, and believe the different events merit different degrees of sympathy.
Perhaps you might think that makes me “inhuman.” I would suggest that - at most - perhaps it makes me overly rational and insufficiently compassionate. But I’m not sure I’d even go that far.
Too little compassion may be undesireable. But I would suggest that too much indiscriminate compassion may also be undesireable should it interefere with the expectation of personal responsibility.
A person’s willingness to engage in risky behavior and challenge authority and conventional wisdom is an interesting thing. In certain people, there is a fine line between the possibility of personal growth and insight, versus possible injury or even death. Possibly beyond the scope of this Pit thread.
Oh yeah - sorry bout that whoosh! 
I’ve read through this entire thread and I’ve gotta ask: Since when has such a high premium been placed on the lives of alligators?
We kill them for shoes, people!
casdave:
I have to suspect that you’ve never been to a working farm.
That may sound snarky but it’s not meant to.
Most farm equipment has lots of whirling twirling swirling parts that can easily catch a jacket or sleeve.
Kids operate tractors and trucks in rural areas at an early age.
My husband was mowing hay at the ripe age of 12.
Read my post again. I didn’t say that. I said BECAUSE they creep me out so much I deliberately choose to live in a climate where these reptiles don’t run amouck. And I’m only in favor of killing the ones who have proven to be dangerous. I’m not sure how this makes me less worthy of your respect, but we all have our phobias, you know?
Beagle, we have a weekend place on a lake in Eastern Kentucky. Two years ago the kiddies had just come back in the boat for lunch after an all-morning romp in the lake. From 50 feet away, we saw a snake enter the water. Not too unusual in Eastern Kentucky as we see snakes, esp. copper heads, fairly often. They’ll pretty much leave you alone as long as you don’t go stepping on their heads. (And copperheads, unlike rattlers and water mocassins, usually just inflict damage to localized tissue. If you get bit, you may lose a toe but you’ll probably not die.)
Anyway, we were quite surprised to see the little demon swim right towards our boats. I pulled the kids in, who were dangling their feet in the water, and grabbed the only “weapon” I could find – a noodle (long, colored styrofoam flotation device), because the thing was acting so aggressive. And that could only mean one thing – a cottonmouth. Sure enough, that snake slowly passed each boat with its mouth wide open to show its white mouth and bared fangs. It was a godforsaken cottonmouth – the only one I’ve ever seen in my life outside a zoo. Needless to say, we were all speechless. And pretty shaken up because the kids had just gotten out of the water. Had they still been in the water, I would have probably had to sacrifice my beagle (::sniff, sniff:
and thrown him in between the kids and the snake. Cottonmouths can KILL people, after all.
Luckily, he didn’t attack. Gawd, I hate reptiles.
Um, that last smiley was unintended. I was trying to close the bracket after my ::sniff:: comment.
Don’t want anyone to think I’d get a kick out of sacrificing my beloved beagle. Yes, Buddy, I’m talking about you.
(He’s such a good boy. )
Several of the alligators would likely have been killed even if the boy had not been attacked. According to the article a nuisance alligator complaint had already been files with the Conservation Commission.
Exactly. They needed to kill the alligator that killed the boy. You can’t ask an alligator if it killed a boy earlier that day.
What scares me is that some people seem to think that it is okay to let a large alligator who has lost all fear of humans live in a lake near a marina. If a few extra gator need to be killed to get the dangerous one then so be it. They aren’t endangered.
Not only are you wrong, but you are dead wrong.
There is indeed a “shortage” of alligators, in the sense that they only very recently came off the endangered species list, and may soon go back on it.