1987 Buick Grand National GNX. IMHO - Greatest Car Ever

Rally cars have teams of mechanics and huge budgets BTW. The only thing on it may be the block of course thats just a WAG…

thats supposed to say “the only thing stock” WAG…

72’ Chevy Nova. Hands down the winner. I don’t care what anyone else says!

A close second is my 94’ Dodge intrepid ES. Not just ANY 94’ Intrepid, just my particular one.

So, what do people think of the new hot-rod Neon? It’s cheap… lots of power…

For all the folks who think the Impala SS is great, I own the 1996 Impala SS and have had numerous problems with it. Everyone I know who owns the car has had the rear window mechanisms break (window starts to turn and gets stuck going up without your hand to guide it). On mine the automatic antenna has taken a shit, the ‘check engine’ light is always on for no good reason, and I’ve already had to have major transmission work done - and I only have 85,000 miles on it! I’m also on my fourth battery which seems a little excessive for the car’s age.

I love the power and the look of the car, but the headaches and the cost of repairs sometimes just aren’t worth it.

And for what it’s worth, I also loved the GNX. Though people I knew who owned that car also complained about the repair issues. If only someone would make a cool looking American car with Japanese reliability. Sigh Looks like I can’t have my cake and eat it too…

'65 Mustang. That’s all I have to say

stick shift of course :slight_smile:

That little Neon looks like a hell of a bargain. But I hate front-wheel drive performance cars. Torque steer drives me nuts, and they just don’t feel right. I much prefer AWD or RWD for a sports car. I like a car that has mild understeer that you can correct by applying power.

And after owning two Camaros, two 240-Zs, a '94 Mustang, I’m pretty much done with rear-wheel drive performance cars here in Edmonton. The roads just aren’t good enough throughout most of the winter. I lost my 240-Z on the highway on ice when a bare patch of pavement caused it to grab unevenly. It just went completely uncontrollable. I crossed the median 30 feet in front of an oncoming truck and wound up buried in the ditch in about 6 ft of snow. When I was young and crazy, trying to drive a 400hp Camaro in the winter was just an exciting challenge. Now I’ve got a family and it just won’t do.

But AWD is another matter. Those things LIKE snow. Subie owners get all cranked up when snow falls, because their cars are even more fun. Unfortunately, I went to the Subaru dealer today and finally had an in-person look at a WRX - and didn’t like it very much. Too small, too flimsy-feeling, and a little too plain for a car that costs $36,500. I know all the money is in the drivetrain, but for an everyday commuter it just didn’t seem to have value for me. I never got a chance to drive it, though, so perhaps the perception will change entirely on the road.

Drag racing = the fastest and most powerful side by side competition racing cars in the world!!! What’s not to like?

Even the round and round cars are still enjoying the drag race to the next turn. And on the street, pushing a car to the edge in turns is risking a crash that may total the car and hurt others - a bit of WOT from one light to the other ain’t hurtin’ a thing.

The modern way and also using the vehicle weight and trap speed. BTW, the method that the Japs and Eruo’s use ALWAYS yeild a higher HP rating than the moder US standard.

Using trap speed and weight provides a much more realistic reading.

Dynos measure TORQUE. Then that T number is plugged into an equasion that has an RPM constant. Basically HP ratings much over 5300 RPM’s are somewhat inflated.
Example: The electric motor (110v single phase) in my shop vac is about 1.5 pounds and about the size of my fist and is rated at 6 HP. The triple phase 220v motor in a cold saw that weighs in about 45 pounds and is about the size of two bowling balls is rater .75 HP. Why? Because the small motor turns thousands of RPM’s and the cold saw is turning a couple of hundred RPM’s.

Turbo Regal: Bigger turbo= $600 + Adj fuel pressure regulator = $75 + Fuel pump = $100 + hollow out the catyletic converter $0 = $775 total = 450 HP/450 ft lb torque. Try that with a rice burner and I’ll give you triple the budget and a new engine. I’ve seen that done MANY times with 10+year old 100,000 mile + Buicks.

Now anybody still want to talk about Jap reliability?

>>I mean, a Grand National only had 245 Horsepower stock. A Nissan Maxima has that. The GNX had 276 horsepower. The WRX STI has that, and it’s 400 lbs lighter. It’ll blow a GNX away. In fact, I’ll bet the Grand National GNX wouldn’t even be in the top 10 of current cars under 40 grand for speed<<

See above; it is the AREA under the torque curve that tells the power story. Please explain why the GN/TR will smoke those cars at 13.9 1/4 mile and 4.9 0-60 (C&D 1986 test numbers) while carrying lots more weight? Hummmmm??? C&D estimated true HP to be closer to 275 - 290, And the Buicks were about $16 grand - nothing near $40K even if ya adjust for 1986/7 dollars.

Those #'s are for a stock Buick. Add a K&N air filter $40 + computer chip $75 and the cars are running 12.90@108. As far as top speed, the GN was limited due to the tires - just disconnect the speedometer cable and the car would go much higher MPH - most of the aftermarket chips do not have the MPH limit.

Read and make guesses or go to the track and witness real life - and thats the fact jack - been there, done that…

Turbo Regal: Bigger turbo= $600 + Adj fuel pressure regulator = $75 + Fuel pump = $100 + hollow out the catyletic converter $0 = $775 total = 450 HP/450 ft lb torque. Try that with a rice burner and I’ll give you triple the budget and a new engine. I’ve seen that done MANY times with 10+year old 100,000 mile + Buicks.

Now anybody still want to talk about Jap reliability?

>>I mean, a Grand National only had 245 Horsepower stock. A Nissan Maxima has that. The GNX had 276 horsepower. The WRX STI has that, and it’s 400 lbs lighter. It’ll blow a GNX away. In fact, I’ll bet the Grand National GNX wouldn’t even be in the top 10 of current cars under 40 grand for speed<<

See above; it is the AREA under the torque curve that tells the power story. Please explain why the GN/TR will smoke those cars at 13.9 1/4 mile and 4.9 0-60 (C&D 1986 test numbers) while carrying lots more weight? Hummmmm??? C&D estimated true HP to be closer to 275 - 290, And the Buicks were about $16 grand - nothing near $40K even if ya adjust for 1986/7 dollars.

Those #'s are for a stock Buick. Add a K&N air filter $40 + computer chip $75 and the cars are running 12.90@108. As far as top speed, the GN was limited due to the tires - just disconnect the speedometer cable and the car would go much higher MPH - most of the aftermarket chips do not have the MPH limit.

Read and make guesses or go to the track and witness real life - and thats the fact jack - been there, done that…

Ah, Sam, I live on torque steer. It’s a different driving style, to the point of where you turn out of skids instead of turning in, I’ve found, but in a car light enough to break the rear end loose reliably, you can turn much tighter than on a RWD. 4WDs have advantages, but they don’t turn as tightly, I’ve found, and are harder to break just one or two tires loose.
(Current car: 98 New Beetle, replaced exhaust system (No, no soupcan exhaust… looks stock, better breathing), sway bars. Underpowered, but still able to do fun things in autocross and traffic. Stick, of course)

E-Sabbath

I remember a Beetle, an OLD one that we would take off-road. That thing ran like a 4x4…man I’m glad the cops thought if was funny what we could do with that thing

B&I, there’s something to be said for gross horsepower and cubic inches. Face it. Nothing beats a Saturn V. But, if I had the space in my engine bay (Love my car, but impossible to work on), I suspect I could pull off most of the same tricks. Heck, just replacing a chip could probably do the same as the pump and regulator… though I admit, I’m not sure. I drive, I don’t do much in the way of modification, yet. But there are bolt-on turbos for a bunch of cars, and I suspect there should be one for the Golf, which a Beetle essentially is. As far as hollowing out the cat… can’t do that anymore, I don’t think, without various … acronym. OCD II? lights going off like a madman, and probably decreased performance. But that’s a feature of the modern era, annoyingly. Of course, I don’t think your car would be street legal after you hollowed the cat out, either.

What would you lose if you kept the cat? C’mon, keep it legal, keep it on the road. Respect the environment, go fast. Off-road on the designated trails, take only photographs, leave only memories.

Sorry, knee-jerk kicked in. I’m just still laughing like mad at the fact that the SVT Focus still gets 25-28 MPG. Socially responsible and fast! What more can you ask for? Oh, yeah, having it still serve as a daily driver in NYC, with enough storage to carry four computers and two monitors when needed. Life is good.

As far as drag racing. It’s a good sport… just, IMHO, not enough of it. I don’t like heats that end that fast. I like the battle between drivers on a good track. (Personal favorite thing to do, when I have a chance, and that isn’t often, is go up to Lime Rock and watch the vintage racing. Mmmm. Bugattis at speed)

My father’s got a car I wish I had space for, myself.
http://www.chuckbeckmotorsports.com/

His engine is a bit larger than most Beck puts together… sucker does 4.5 to sixty. Still weighs about 1400 lbs.
Cost of 22k. Porsche Club of America lets them in as members. Deservedly so, if you ask me. One of the top five best looking car designs ever.

Oh, yes. I cut my teeth on a '74 Superbeetle. Literally; I used to gnaw on the upholstery. After it was no longer the family car, we did fun and entertaining things to it. Tractor, the engine spent half a year in a boat, turned it into a off-road bug (Not a Manx conversion, though)

The rear windows are a very common problem, mine don’t work either. They have a small plastic link that has to be replaced by a metal one. No biggie, but is annoying.

As for the check engine light, it is probably your EGR valve. Chevrolet sent out a letter offering to fix it for free, you must have not gotten yours (buy it used?).

The most unreliable car I have ever had was a 1987 Honda Accord. My mom and dad bought it brand new, and ended up giving it to me. Going from that POS to my Pimpala was a huge relief.

Oh good: We’re sharing unreliability stories. How about this:

I have a 2000 Windstar SEL on lease. As of today, it only has about 18,000 miles on it, of very light driving. This is what has gone wrong with this vehicle:

[ul]
[li]When it was delivered, it had numerous fit and finish problems. The armrest was bent. The headliner was loose. The clips for the visors were loose, and the screws were stripped. It had to go back to the dealer 3 times while these problems were addressed.[/li][li]At about 3,000 miles, it developed a leak in the brake system and had to go back to the dealer.[/li][li]At about 5,000 miles, it developed a serious leak in the transaxle, and had to go back to the dealer.[/li][li]The rear sonar system is intermittent, leading me to accidentally back into an obstruction I couldn’t see.[/li][li]At 10,000 miles, the transmission catastrophically failed and had to be replaced.[/li][li] At 15,000 miles, the steering system started making audible rattling sounds when turning left.[/li][li]Soon after, the steering started to grab when turning left and make a grinding sound. Back to the dealer again.[/li][li] at 16,000 miles, the power seat failed and no longer works.[/li][li]The air conditioning is now venting something which is causing the inside of the winshield to develop an oily film.[/li][li]Also at 16,000 miles, the fuel gage began working intermittently.[/li][li]The brakes are now squealing, and shouldn’t be anywhere near ready for replacement.[/li][/ul]

I’m sure I’m forgetting a few things. This POS has given me fits since the day we drove it off the lot. I wanted to buy a Ford Escape to replace it with, but now I’m terrified of buying a domestic vehicle. Because this 18,000 mile Windstar already has a rebuilt tranny, and has lost well over half of its value in 3 years. Thank God I’m leasing, because the current ‘street value’ of Windstar SELs is about 4,000 less than the residual value of the vehicle.

And your blaming that on a newfangled gadget?Try backing a 2ton dump truck (no, not a garbage truck you see working your neighborhood)into bay not much wider than the truck. Why when I was a strapping young stud we had these things called mirrors. And if I couldn’t see behind me I had this thing called Junior to help.

oh yes your soccer-mobile sounds like a lemon to me (lemon laws in your state??)

The whole point to the sonar system is to allow you to slowly back up in tight spaces where you can’t see obstacles. It’s called the “Parkade system” for that reason.

I didn’t do any real damage because I was going very slowly. The way the thing works is that it’s supposed to beep slowly as you approach an obstacle, and then get faster and faster as you get closer until it goes to a solid tone when you are within 6 inches.

If the system is intermittent even on rare occasions, it is unsafe and worthless. I found that out the hard way.

Try backing a two-ton…
I would neverrely on such a device.
Sometimes when I’d park the aforementioned truck I’d have to jump out and take a look around first. Makes parking a soccer-van look easy, I mean you could easily park your vehicle * inside* the payload area(bed) of the truck…
Why, when I was young…