19th Century Antique Porcelain

Factual Questions
1

Does anyone know anything about china made in the 19th century in Chelsea, England?

The thing is, I have a TON of it. I once found a stack of “Grandmother’s Ware” in an antique store for $4/piece and I bought it because I thought it was lovely. Since then, my collection has grown to immense proportions. I’ve got pieces of dozens of different patterns. The challenge of finding the pieces has gotten to be a form of entertainment.

I’ve found the “Chelse Grape” and “Chelsea Thistle” listed in Kovels. But otherwise, I can find VERY little information. I’m told the three (?) patterns were made in Chelsea between 1820 and 1880. But I’m also aware that my collection contains MUCH more than three patterns. I know it must have been made by various manufacturers in various ways. I know that some, if not most of it, is soft paste as opposed to bone china.

I’m not really interested in selling it (though I might be willing to trade a couple of my eleventy billion plates for some other piece I want) so I’m not particularly looking for VALUES on it. Rather, I’d like to know if there’s any way I can find out what patterns were made where and when and by whom. I’m interested in the history of the pieces. I’ve searched every antiques book I could get my hands on. The china is fairly common, but information about where the heck it came from is NOT. Can anyone help? Any other antiques nuts out there?

-L

2

Knowing you have all that china, and knowing you moved recently, presumably packing and moving the china along with you, makes my head hurt.

Sorry, non answer to the question.

3

You think YOUR head hurts! Yes, I am the queen of all things ancient and breakable. No joke, I have 60 teacups!! Not all of them are one of the Chelsea patterns…but they all range from 50 years old to more than 150 years. I also have several Song Dynasty vases and some 5000 year old pottery. And then there’s my collection of 5 or 6 1930s penis lamps. I was rather freaked about moving it.

First, of course, there is some real value to some of my belongings. Not many of them. I only pay what such things are worth to ME…I don’t consider re-sale value, since I want to OWN them, not turn a profit. But I did steal a couple of Grandmother’s Ware pieces for $4 that I found out later I could re-sell for more than $200. Teapots and such. I have considered opening shop in order to support my habit. I suppose no one wants to break something that could be financially valuable.

Second, is the issue of MY being the person to destroy something so old. I mean, a vase survives 800-1000 years (Song Dynasty-ish) and can’t survive being in MY hands. Seems somehow cosmically wrong.

Luckily, I didn’t chip, crack, break, or otherwise mangle ONE piece. Everything made the transition just fine.

Now if I could just get some information about it!

-L

4

Well the Chelsea ‘Grape’ pattern comes from the Adderley factory, hopefully this will help your search as most catalogues of china/porcelain are done by factory rather than by region.
here is an online pattern-matching site that is free and doesn’t require registration and photos, but does require you to go through the lists by manufacturer. I hope it helps anyway.

Britt

5

Best scenario would be if you could hire an auction house or museum expert to evaluate your collection but that would be fairly expensive.

Here are some books that may be of interest.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0676600859/o/qid=994804358/sr=2-2/ref=aps_sr_b_1_2/002-5225105-4432033

Dinnerware of the 20th Century : The Top 500 Patterns (Dinnerware of the 20th Century)
by Harry L. Rinker - $ 30

"Editorial Reviews Book Description
A LAVISH, FULL-COLOR, FIRST-EVER PICTORIAL TOUR OF THE TOP 500 DINNERWARE PATTERNS OF THE 20TH CENTURY

If collecting and displaying fine china are part of your passion for gracious living, here is the only book you will ever need! Beautifully illustrated throughout with digitally reproduced full-color photographs, this lovely volume is conveniently arranged alphabetically–first by dinnerware manufacturer and then by the pattern name. Combined with short histories of each manufacturer, listings of every known piece, vital date information on when the pattern was introduced and/or discontinued, and an appendix that ranks the top 500 patterns, Dinnerware in the 20th Century will earn a welcome place at any table!

Highlights include articles on the popularity of certain patterns, feature stories on designers, behind-the-style looks at particular patterns, and much more!"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0916838013/o/qid=994804358/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-5225105-4432033

Chinese Export Porcelain, Standard Patterns and Forms, 1780-1880 : Standard Patterns and Forms
by Herbert, Peter, Nancy Schiffer, Herbert Schiffer - $ 38.

“Book Description
Chinese Export Porcelain, Standard Patterns and Forms contains over 1000 items illustrated in black and white and 49 color plates. This book tells the story of the exciting and dangerous “China Trade.” The principal purpose of this book is to show and discuss the many forms and variations that have made this field so fascinating.
The text is simple and factual and explodes many cherished myths and fantasies about these wares. The pictures and captions tell the story., 682 photos, 8 1/2’’ x 11’’”

6

Hey, thanks you guys! I’m searching through china patterns now. I’m unclear about the Adderley’s lable. I have a few of the pieces that I’ve been told are “Blue Adderley,” but they all have marks on the bottom. I understand that the older pieces were unmarked. These “Blue Adderley” pieces look nothing like the unmarked “GRAPE” pieces. Also, I have several different patterns with grapes in them. Sigh…off to do my search.

Thanks a bunch for the info!

-L

7

Also… a nice fat article in Brittanica about Chelsea porcelain.

http://www.britannica.com/seo/c/chelsea-porcelain/

A soft-paste porcelain made at a factory in Chelsea, London, established in 1743 by Charles Gouyn and Nicolas Sprimont, the latter a silversmith. By the 1750s the sole manager was Sprimont, from whose genius stemmed Chelsea’s greatest achievements. In 1769 the factory was sold to James Cox; and he sold it a year later to William Duesbury of Derby, Derbyshire, who maintained it until 1784, producing porcelain generally referred to as Chelsea-Derbyware. In that year the kilns and workshops at Chelsea were demolished; many molds were destroyed and others removed to Derby. …"

and lot lots more.
Another big article and some info on how to spot copies (apparent Chelsea counterfeit porcelain is extensive) .

Factory Fact File: Chelsea - David Battie

http://www.artbookservices.com/articles/april97/apr97_2.html

Here is a page with auntheticating trade mark info for Cheslea porcelain-

British Porcelain, Pottery and Ceramic Trade Marks

http://www.netcentral.co.uk/steveb/mark/c/c.html

8

astro your reference is the actual Chelsea Porcelain factory that was closed in 1786 so probably not the one SexyWriter was referring to.
Factory marks are a good reference for idtification, here is one site that gives a good guide to them.
China patterns come in variety of types. Some patterns are just generic others are registered to a particular factory, and where only ‘legitimately’ produced by that factory. Some patterns were then discontinued due to the factory closing or the line being discontinued with changes in fashion.
There are also hand painted sets that follow a general theme or style but each individual piece has been painted differently and often signed. Finally there is one of pieces that were created for a particular individual or event.
The factory, the type of piece that it is, and some fairly arbitrary variables of collectability primarily determines the value of a piece. There is also an untold number of fakes reproductions and assorted ‘in the style of’ pieces so you need a fair bit of experience to accurately value or reliably identify a piece.
As to the marks on the bottom. Some factories employed them some of the time often randomly changing the mark used and then the forgers copied them, but the they have been employed through out history, its a fun field enjoy yourself.

And to think I abbreviated and left huge bits out, still I hope this will help

Britt

9

Oh here are the marks for the 'Chelsea porclien factory up until they merged with Derby in 1770.

10

Yes, this is true. The pieces I’m referring to were made in the early to mid 1800s. Other than a few pieces with an ‘Adderley’ triangle on the bottom, my pieces are completely UNMARKED. I am already the proud owner of at least one forgery. Luckily, I don’t spend real money on the stuff. I got the replica teapot (still pretty) for $12. I did not know it was a newer piece at the time. The rest of what I have looks to be authentic to the period, though as I’ve said, I have no idea about the maker. I’m getting a lot of good information from you guys though. Keep it coming! And thanks :slight_smile:

-L

11

P-p-p-p-p-penis lamps?

Huh?

Never saw one of them on “Antiques Roadshow.”

12

Yeah, it was some weird art deco era thing. I found one on E-bay so you could see what I meant.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1163353754

I think their excuse for making these phallic lamps was some type of “machine age” fascination with skyscrapers. A couple of the ones I have are positively OBSCENE though, looking much more like light up sex toys than any skyscraper I ever saw. There really is no way you can look at them and NOT think of a penis.

-L

13

Okay, I’m really sorry to sully GQ with this kind of perverted nonsense. But after I posted the last link, I found a couple of others for your amusement. See if you can measure up to THESE babies:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1164510221

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1164349028

God, the pink ones are too funny for words.

14

Thank you, Sexy Writer. That was educational. And disturbing.