2 Lateral Thinking Problems

From Justwanttopost’s link:

A man lives on the tenth floor of a building. Every day he takes the elevator to go down to the ground floor to go to work or to go shopping. When he returns he takes the elevator to the seventh floor and walks up the stairs to reach his apartment on the tenth floor. He hates walking so why does he do it?

Answer:

The man is (of course) a dwarf. Variants of this puzzle include the clue that on rainy days he goes up in the elevator to the tenth floor (he uses his umbrella!)

What the hell does that mean?

It means:


He normally can’t reach any button above seven, he is too short. On rainy days he uses his umbrella press the button for the tenth floor. I’m not sure why he doesn’t use his umbrella (or some other device) on non-rainy days - maybe he is not a very laterally thinking dwarf.

I’m not sure why he doesn’t use his umbrella (or some other device) on non-rainy days - maybe he is not a very laterally thinking dwarf.

Can I use that as a sig?

You can but I think maybe it should be “logical” instead of “lateral”. Sometimes its hard to say which is appropriate.

I always felt a bit sorry for the person in this puzzle, doomed to eternally trudge up stairs, despite hating doing so. Then again, he is not as bad off as the peolpe in many other lateral thinking puzzles. Why so many deaths? I suppose a murder mystery is just more exciting.

For those who didn’t see my previous posting, these puzzles really suck.
As far as the most recent posting about the man who hates climbing stairs I’ll put my comments in a spoiler box.

[spoiler] If the man were truly a stair-climbing-hating dwarf he’d always bring something with him to press that tenth floor button. (a ruler, a pointer, etc).
Also the puzzle assumes that the elevator is always empty except for that man. OR the man is too shy to ask one of the passengers to press “10”
OR the passenegers are insensitive jerks that never obey the man’s request.

The puzzle also assumes that no one who lives on floor 8, 9 or 10 ever takes the elevator with that man. Otherwise shouldn’t the puzzle read sometimes he climbs from the 7th floor, 8th floor, etc.

Also, on the man’s return trip, when the elevator arrives, couldn’t he just ask anyone in the lobby to press 10 for him, and then they can leave the elevator to allow the man to begin his 10 flight journey.

The puzzle also assumes that people who live on the 8th 9th or 10th floor never press the down button when the man is travelling up.

All dopers are welcome to continue to find even more loopholes in this riddle.
[/spoiler]
It’s nice to see I am not alone in despising these inane riddles.

I’m not a big fan myself, but nobody is forcing you to answer them (or to stand around for ten minutes asking yes or no questions).

I tend to get more annoyed when I can’t answer them, the so-called “Oooh” effect (you either see it in the first few minutes or you probably won’t get it today).

There are a lot of different kinds of puzzles and riddles and the like, and they’re just entertainment. I appreciate the ingenuity of a lot of them. Some are more cleverly constructed than others, and some work on different principles (imagining different meanings of a word, such as bycicles to mean cards, an airplane cabin, etc.).

The best construction of these, IMHO, are those that come close to giving you every clue you need, but make you really work at deduction, such as the “hung man in the empty oom locked from the inside with a wet floor.” The answer, that he stood on a block of ice and waited for it to melt under his feet, is screwy, kinda dumb, and thorougly inspired. Lateral thinking. These are exercises. To me, squat thrusts aren’t particularly productive or enjoyable, but they get you into shape.

My guess for the mountain climber is that they found the flag he was supposed to have planted still in his gear. (Of course, he could have had too much food or too many pitons left). And nobody’s brought up the classic “I can’t operate on this man because he’s my son” puzzler.

  1. He made a truckload of money, and was killed by a mugger.

  2. He didn’t use the oxygen bottles.

Answer to the climber puzzle.

It was obvious that the climber was lying. The final entry in his diary says “arrived safely back at base camp.” (Why would we assume that he wriote just one fictiious entry into his diary?)

but just because he was lying about getting to base camp does not mean he didn’t get to the top (only that he possibly wrote that entry before)

:sigh:

Suffice it to say that fans of lateral thinking puzzles enjoy them, while non-fans tend to go on about all the possible answers. No one is wrong, but true fans don’t argue over the semantics. They understand the spirit of the riddle.

Again, no one is wrong, but lateral thinking puzzles, like movies and sequels, have their following, and it’s the following that makes or breaks them.

fyi: Paul Sloane is the king of lateral thinking puzzles.

I gotta disagree. I liked the one about the dead parachutist the first time I heard it. But it was in an environment where I could do the yes/no question thing. I like puzzles and riddles … if they have answers.

I once saw a big netbook worth of riddles … and there were some good ones in there, some hard to figure out. But there was this one guy, who’d submitted maybe 10% of the content… and his riddles were just awful. They were very nonspecific, and concentrated more on making the riddle into a poem than on providing clues to the answer.

My point? Some riddles/puzzles are just badly written.

What’s your idea of a riddle that’s not inane?

Sculptor: I would guess the statue was made of mercury or lead, and he died of poisoning.

Climber: Either failed to mention a key detail of the top or wrote down the wrong height or something. I’m probably missing something here.

I agree with Candid Gamera, in that the best way to enjoy these puzzles is to make sure that they are written well. For instance, the one with the parachute, it makes sense that it was an open field, because who would parachute into a forest? The one with the dwarf is also a classic, but the key details (which are often left out) is that he does ride the elevator alone, and he always has an umbrella. Often, these details are changed/omitted, b/c the teller thinks it becomes too easy, or the listener forgets that detail. However, in my opinion, I do agree that in general, an overwhelming majority of them are written poorly.

As to the OP, let me guess:

  1. I like the lightning rod theory. However, the question that comes up is: “how did he die?” which cannot be answered by the rules of the quiz. Lightning strking the house will cause a fire and he could die any number of ways: house crashing in on him, electrocution, smoke inhalation, fire, etc. This would take many hours of questioning.

  2. If the fountain pen is indeed the correct answer, I wonder how many people know about atmospheric pressure and pen ink delivery systems? Also, the clue “some years later” also doesn’t factor into this. I don’t think fountain pen is a correct answer, but if it is, I would say that this one is poorly written.

I personally dislike riddles with too ‘pat’ or too mechanistic A solution- e.g. fountain pens don’t leak at a precisely predefined point. Solutions based on hard physical properties (e.g. ice or ink freeze or melt at some specific temperature) may still fall short of realism (if, for example, they depend on an entire mass of water instantaneously freezing at an external temperature of 32F/0C and don’t account for body heat, such as a pen inside a parka)

“Penniless” implies long term poverty, not using the last of his spare change to pay off a pizza delivery boy that afternoon. People who fast (or near fast) for long periods of time often encounter “refeeding syndrome”: returning instantly to a normal diet can kill them. (Of course, “penniless” doesn’t definitively prove that his larder wasn’t stocked)

Is this a better solution than smelting pennies? At first, I didn’t think so. It’s logical and the outcome is even arguably expected, but it requires specialized knowledge, and it doesn’t make use of the fact that he was a sculptor who worked in metal – but ‘zinc toxicity’ from smelting pennies also requires specialized knowledge of coin metalurgy in the 20th century and of heavy metal toxicity. Besides, the penny smelting explanation requires that the sculptor lived in (e.g.) the US after zinc wafer pennies (1983) had had time to replace the copper ones in circulation. The puzzle doesn’t necessarily imply this, even if it’s told in the US.

Further, zinc is not very toxic. Galvanized iron was used to handle drinking water for generations (most of the US pupulation, for example, was rural until WWII). Galvanized iron doesn’t rust quickly because some of the zinc ionizes into a soluble form, which reacts with rust -yet toxicity was uncommon. Zinc and galvanized iron were also in some parts of common grills, with no reported fatalities, not even for makeshift “tin can” or “trash can” grills.

I am not an expert in occupational heavy metal exposure (but I’ve diagnosed and treated heavy metal exposure in my time) Zinc smelting fumes are indeed considered quite toxic, but they almost always cause a flu-like disease called fume fever, not death. OSHA doesn’t have a maximum airborne exposure limit for Zinc, which tells you something, I think. Acute exposure from welding or brazing galvanized iron rarely reaches the acute body burden of 2g required to cause symptoms, much less the 4-5g required for full fume fever. It’d really be rather hard to actually absorb enough zinc vapor to cause death from a fairly short-term exposure.

My point is: the zinc hypothesis is plausible, but not as likely as it seems at first glance. By contrast, every hospital in the country follows a standard protocol for the refeeding of malnourished or alcoholic patients. Even administering a glucose IV without proper preparation (e.g. a thiamine injection) can cause a very serious encephalopathy, and a “good solid meal” can send a starving person to the ER.

Yet, I still don’t like that solution. It’s not real “lateral thinking” to me.

As for the climber, I think that good “lateral thinking” solutions would include a) he still had a flag/marker that he meant to leave at the apex; b) his (working) camera only had picture up to the location he was found. Reaching the peak would be a powerful hallmark experience - it’s not just another step on the journey. How many people would turn around and go home without some memento for themselves, much less expect everyone to rely on their say-so?

BTW, “fume fever” appears to be an inflammatory response in the lung, not a true toxicity. That’s probably why such a wide range of agents can cause it.

BTW, “fume fever” appears to be an inflammatory response in the lung, not a true toxicity. That’s probably why such a wide range of agents can cause it.

I dunno. My take on these puzzles is that typically they’re worded to pull the listener into false assumptions, and don’t require specialized knowledge like the altitudinal particulars of fountain pens. I think the answers should be completely obvious if they’re revealed… a smack-yourself-in-the-forehead moment…

Which is why I think the skydiver mystery is a good one. These, I’m not so sure about. No one’s hit upon a solution for the first that gives me the smack-in-the-forehead feeling… as for the climber, the only thing I could come up with that I really liked was the idea of the partner. It’s not quite ‘Oh, duh!’ but it’s not bad.

I agree. None of the possible solutions presented so far (including my own) gives one a “smack yourself in the forehead” feeling. The lightning rod one fails miserably as well, since not having a lighting rod on a house does not equate to immediate death the first time a thunderstorm rolls by. In fact few, if any, modern homes are built with lightning rods, simply because they do liittle but attract lightning strikes where you don’t necessarily want them. Excepting strikes which killed people talking on the telephone, I can’t find a single instance of someone being killed inside their home by lightning.

For the 10th floor dweller:

The buttons in the evelator for the 8th, 9th, & 10th floors are broken. When in the evelator, the highest floor one can reach is the 7th. The call buttons on the floors work fine so you can call the elevator to the 10th floor to go down, but you can’t go back up.